Alright this is gonna get intense lol. Here we have a bunch of kids dead.......alright so I have been researching this along with all of the past massacres like this. They all play out the same, kill people then kill self. As I researched I noticed one huge flaw. You can get these damn guns as easy as a loaf of bread.. And in todays instance, just walk over and grab it and kill your mom. HOW is it that easy? I can go to walmart, buy everything I need, stuff it in my coat, go to my chemistry class of 500 people where there are no metal detectors, and clean a lot more than 20 off in no time. I mean these guys are getting semi autos with banana clips..well the columbine guys were that I read about. So then we have the one solution of everyone having guns. Well that worked in one town, but the cost would be huge for the whole USA. Every household would need one.. Then they need bullets and whatnot. But lets say Mike is there with his pistol on his side. Obviously this isn't concealed.. If I come in with my trenchcoat, how hard is it for me to turn around, pull out my gun, turn back around and take him out instantly. I mean it's not hard to look around in an empty hallway to see potential threats. Then open the door to chemistry, everyone facing forward, sitting ducks... It's just wayyyyyyyyy too easy! Todays thing was proof! You guys want more guns but I'd realllly like to hear your thoughts on how more guns will stop this crap. There are gun safes.. Even still, how hard is it for a 20 year old to overpower their mom...make her tell them the gun safe code. Plus, most of these guys are not even suspected of anything like that, so they probably already know the code. There are no metal detectors anywhere really... So yeah, anywhere is a target. It's so simple. Same with taking someones credit card, you don't have to sign anything at the gas pump, swipe and go, mine doesnt even have a pin at the pump. I was talking to a guy in the netherlands about this and he said they cannot get guns there. Says it is so hard to get a license to have one that most people don't bother. Since there are basically no guns at all there, there is only petty crap. Knife stabbings or something. To me, either everyone needs a gun, or nobody can have a gun. This mix of gun owners vs. innocents is not working. The gun owners are not responsible at all. But nor is whoever sells them. The columbine guys got that stuff easilllly. Now I know how this is gonna go, and I'm here to say I don't go either way. If nobody but cops had guns, there would still be a psycho cop abusing his power so someone would need a gun to balance the equation. So tell me, what exactly do you guys think the solution for this crap is? Other than keeping people happy...there will always be ONE psycho who pulls something like this.

Ugh... not the dreaded commerce clause. :doh:Watched a video series called, "Constitutionally Literacy", the mand defined what the commerce clause is to be. If you could believe it, it is definitely alot different than what they make it out to be today.To boil it down to its simplicity, IIRC, all it means is that the federal govt. has the oversight of a good in transport over its journey. So before a good leaves and after it arrives, the commerce clause does not apply. Only the duration of transit.

That's cool man - I also think I said a couple times that I'm coming at it from a different perspective having grown up in 2 other countries and our while way if life is different around guns - really it was just another perspective on something I don't fully understand. So it's interesting at least to hear all your guys thoughts . I just wonder what the fix is ... Let's say we keep all the guns for decency and liberty and tyranny ... Cool ..,. Now what ? I just don't see many other solutions here that are better ..... I've grown up with hunting Roos and foxes in aus and hunting here with bow and gun .... So been around guns ... But I've seen plenty of crazy kids who talk about theirs and shooting crap up and what not .... Anyway - so what do we do apart from better health systems and screening that no-one will fund ?

What fix do we have but to defend ourselves? If you believe that the majority of people are good deep down or if you believe that the majority at least will stand up for basic right and wrong (like don't kill kids and help each other). Then, I would say that I would rather have a nation of people that are vigilant and at least able (if they choose) to defend themselves and their families. The police response time to almost any violence is inadequate to do much preventing. I grew up rural. We have had stuff stolen from our family farm. We have no reasonable response time for police or county sheriff. If someone tried to break in and harm my family, their only recourse other than hide and pray for mercy and grace is to be armed. We have a right to our defense. This right is in the spirit of the 2nd Amendment. So whats the solution? Working from these points: 1. We can't change the stupid or crazy people near term or mabe even at all. Though we should try to stop them at the psychological level. They should be flagged and in this case and in the Aurora case, there were red flags that were not acted upon. 2. The bad guys obviously don't respect law or right and wrong. Gun Free zones in schools etc... yeah, those obviously didn't work too well. 3. The bad guys are resourceful, and will find ways to enact their violence, guns or not. I conclude, from my point of view... Our only reasonable solution that we could enact is to defend ourselves, as gun legislation will be ineffective in stemming such people. How that is done, is up to the individual. Options are armed guards, hardening places and adding security that will likely be bypassed by creative evil people, or arming individuals with the proper mindset, attitude, and training. Last line of your post: I am not sure I understand the question you pose though. I don't disagree that healthcare needed fixing. I still hold that it needs fixing though, I feel that the Republican Congress, Senate, and Bush really sat on their laurels and did nothing to deal with this when they had the chance. So they really don't have a lot of room to complain about inaction. The way it has been implemented, much like the rest of our society, is unsustainable. We just plain can't afford what we are trying to do in the way it is implemented. The DOD is a good example. Our warfighting capability (per corrected dollar) has decreased since the Carter administration due to a bloated bureaucracy and mismanagement while the DOD budget has SOARED. The Government needs an administrative and functional overhaul in how they manage money. The guys on the front lines are doing their jobs, but the guys in back and the guys in Washington really aren't.

Some more info to chew on that the MSM won't touch.

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wZPS7AdgNgE

Here is a link with a couple of videos embedded but I will post them below as well.

http://www.infowars.com/democide-how-many-people-will-government-kill-this-year/

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgCemznb6Lc&feature=player_embedded

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Fj4NKpeBZM&feature=player_embedded

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vJHgoIRjlVo

Demand a plan and the rebutal videos.

http://www.infowars.com/watch-hollywood-actors-want-to-ban-your-guns-while-they-make-millions-promoting-gun-violence/

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.infowars.com/photo-of-obama-reacting-to-sandy-hook-news-more-state-propaganda/

I dont disagree on the ^^^ "democide" or government and religion sidfe of things. In fact I think religion is probably the worst of the lot - be hard to define deaths under religion as opposed to governemnt though. http://www.vpc.org/press/1110gundeath.htm

Here is more. This is the way I see it.