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killer dowel pin question

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  • pepsi71ocean
    pepsi71ocean

    You have to open it up and look from the inside. I wish Cummins would have marked them, but were not that lucky.

  • dripley
    dripley

    You have to remove the front gear cover. That requires removing  several items off the front of the motor and the radiator if you want  more room. None of it is difficult. Some folks say a few hours,

  • Tractorman
    Tractorman

    @Dieselfuture, I apologize for my dry sense of humor.  I did know what you meant and actually I am in the same boat with my 2002 truck.  I will also be checking my potential KDP when it is becomes nec

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Not that I know of. I have an 01, I pulled the front cover installed the KDP kit just for peace of mind. I'm glad I did because I found one of the 5 bolts that hold the gear case on was loose so while you have the cover off take each bolt out one at a time clean them then reinstall them with a little blue Loctite. That way the pin is secure and the bolts are too.

  • Author

From the article, that's what I was afraid of. Guess I'll do that next. Did you have any trouble with getting the fan off? I need a 36mm wrench and a tool to hold the hub, which napa will loan me, but I tried to get the fan off the other day and it gave me a hard time. Maybe there's an easier way. That's probably the most difficult part of doing this. At least the KDP kit is inexpensive. I've had enough fun this week though, and this will have to wait a couple weeks.

It's been a little while since I did mine, I think the fan is right hand thread. Backwards from normal. It was tight had a friend help me.

Get ahold of JL Welding (member here on the forum) he can make you a set of fan wrenches for your truck.

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I take it you are fitting the big wrench over the bolts holding the pulley?

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It's been a little while since I did mine, I think the fan is right hand thread. Backwards from normal. It was tight had a friend help me.

That is my understanding, it is a reverse thread.
  • Owner

Yes. The big wrench hangs on the pulley bolts and the smaller wrench turns the fan clutch off the stem. Yes. It's a left hand thread so it turns to the driver side with the wrench handle.

I never took the fan itself off. Just remove the serpentine belt and undo the 4 bolts holding the fan/assembly on the block.

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    • Author

    That big wrench looks a little more user friendly than the set I borrowed from napa, which had some sort of adjustable bolt holder that was next to impossible to keep on the bolts. I'll get a hold of JL and see what we can do. Thanks for the tips.

    • Author

    Thanks for the link; I'll shoot him an email. I sent a PM, but hasn't responded yet. I'm sure he will. I'll be ordering the dowel pin kit soon and get that taken care of.

    If you still have the pin in place, don't waste your time buying the kit. Just get a fender washer from the hardware store for pennies and use a grinder to shape it into a tab. Thats What I did and it works like a charm!

    I never took the fan itself off. Just remove the serpentine belt and undo the 4 bolts holding the fan/assembly on the block.

    That's the easiest way right there.
    • Author

    I never took the fan itself off. Just remove the serpentine belt and undo the 4 bolts holding the fan/assembly on the block.

    Isn't the spring under the pulley holding the fan on under tension? That's what it says in my alldata service manual:

    CAUTION: Do not remove the fan pulley bolts. This pulley is under spring tension.

    Just curious about that. It makes more sense what you're suggesting, but was concerned about the tension.

    Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong bolts, and you're not removing the pulley, but just the fan and the clutch as one assembly. Is this correct?

    Thanks

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    If you still have the pin in place, don't waste your time buying the kit. Just get a fender washer from the hardware store for pennies and use a grinder to shape it into a tab. Thats What I did and it works like a charm!

    Doesn't the kit come with the timing cover seal? If I'm going to all that trouble might as well put on a new seal, unless you know other place to get the seal.

    Isn't the spring under the pulley holding the fan on under tension? That's what it says in my alldata service manual:

    CAUTION: Do not remove the fan pulley bolts. This pulley is under spring tension.

    Just curious about that. It makes more sense what you're suggesting, but was concerned about the tension.

    Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong bolts, and you're not removing the pulley, but just the fan and the clutch as one assembly. Is this correct?

    Thanks

    Doesn't the kit come with the timing cover seal? If I'm going to all that trouble might as well put on a new seal, unless you know other place to get the seal.

    - - - Updated - - -You don't remove the pulley. Just the bracket and the pulley, fan and all comes along. The case cover can be RTV'd on like it is from the factory. I would make sure your crank nose does'nt have a groove in it before you buy that seal. If it has a groove like mine did you can get a sleeve to slide on the crank nose and an oversize seal to fit.
    • Author

    - - - Updated - - -You don't remove the pulley. Just the bracket and the pulley, fan and all comes along. The case cover can be RTV'd on like it is from the factory. I would make sure your crank nose does'nt have a groove in it before you buy that seal. If it has a groove like mine did you can get a sleeve to slide on the crank nose and an oversize seal to fit.

    Is there a way to tell if it has a groove before removing everything? What year is yours? Thanks for the description of the fan/pulley/clutch, but what bracket are you referring to?

    Is there something different about the 2nd gen 24 valve dowel pin? On my first gen I first hammered the the dowel pin in with a straight punch, then peened the curcumfrence with a center punch. No way it's ever comming out. I dont know understand why a kit is avail unless there is something different about the 2nd gens.

    • Author

    All I know is that some early 24V were susceptible to the KDP issue, and some were manufactured with a stepped case which supposedly won't allow the pin to fall into anything critical. Mine is a 1999, so naturally I'm a little concerned, and for peace of mind will be taking a look at it soon. At best, I have a stepped case and I'm safe, at worst it is still in place and either hasn't and won't, or hasn't and will.

    Isn't the spring under the pulley holding the fan on under tension? That's what it says in my alldata service manual:

    CAUTION: Do not remove the fan pulley bolts. This pulley is under spring tension.

    Just curious about that. It makes more sense what you're suggesting, but was concerned about the tension.

    Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong bolts, and you're not removing the pulley, but just the fan and the clutch as one assembly. Is this correct?

    Thanks

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    Doesn't the kit come with the timing cover seal? If I'm going to all that trouble might as well put on a new seal, unless you know other place to get the seal.

    Correct. I'm speaking of the 4 bolts that mount the fan to the block itself. Its a bracket for the fan/clutch.

    I have not heard of a timing cover seal. Its usually just rtv'ed on. Buy yourself BLACK rtv sealant and put a good bead on it...

    Is there a way to tell if it has a groove before removing everything? What year is yours? Thanks for the description of the fan/pulley/clutch, but what bracket are you referring to?

    I do not think there is really any ways to tell if there is a groove without removing the cover. You could knock out the crank seal and look, but when I did that once, there was no way for me to put a new one on unless I took the cover off and mounted it to the cover first.

    You can get a crank seal/sleeve kit from O'reilly's. I had to do one to mine...

    Is there something different about the 2nd gen 24 valve dowel pin? On my first gen I first hammered the the dowel pin in with a straight punch, then peened the curcumfrence with a center punch. No way it's ever comming out. I dont know understand why a kit is avail unless there is something different about the 2nd gens.

    I do not believe there is any difference between the two. As far as the kit goes, IMO, I think its just became a way for people to make an extra buck. The repair is simple to remedy. Disastrous if not prevented. Only time I could every justify getting the kit is if the pin ever fell out. Dunno where I would get a pin of that same make to replace it...

    Is there a way to tell if it has a groove before removing everything? What year is yours? Thanks for the description of the fan/pulley/clutch, but what bracket are you referring to?

    If it's not leaking oil you're prob OK. The bracket mounts to the engine with 4 bolts and the fan mounts to it. I'll see if I can get a pic. Mine's a 99 on it's second engine and both had stepped case. I peened it over just to be sure. Oh, and I had to grind a cheap wrench down to get on the one bolt but it's still better than fighting that fan nut.
    • Author

    If it's not leaking oil you're prob OK. The bracket mounts to the engine with 4 bolts and the fan mounts to it. I'll see if I can get a pic. Mine's a 99 on it's second engine and both had stepped case. I peened it over just to be sure. Oh, and I had to grind a cheap wrench down to get on the one bolt but it's still better than fighting that fan nut.

    Which bolt would that be that you had to grind down a wrench? What size was it, and how far down did you grind it?
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