Well folks, for the 3rd time in 4 years my VP-44 is throwing codes. Both the PO216 and P1698 now... Was hard to start for a bit but now thats cleared up but its now smoking badly when I put my foot into it and thought I saw some white smoke while driving it home yesterday. 

 

This is after I spent over $1000 to help prevent this from ever happening again. An Air Dog 165 fuel pump with dual filters along with the Vulcan big line kit from the tank to the VP pump, as well as an Edge W/Attitude to monitor the fuel pressure and an alarm should the fuel pressure ever get below 15 psi. The fuel pressure has never gone below 12 psi (it usually sets at 18-19 psi) and the filters have been changed several times in the last year. 

 

To tell the truth I am at the point of about being ready to sell the truck and go with something else. I simply cannot afford $1000 for a new/overhauled VP every year. Added to that I cannot have the thing strand me out on the road somewhere. Love the Cummins, like the truck but if its not reliable then its not for me. 

 

Now I bought this last VP from what I was told was a reliable pump place and they told me that they would "stand behind their product" for the full 12 month warranty, but "should anything happen in the 13th or 14th month, we will take care of you" (and I have that in writing).... Well I was two weeks over the 12 month time period and he just emailed me back saying "the warranty is 12 months, your coverage is done!" ... Great service isnt it? I just love liars... 

 

His idea of "standing behind his product" was telling me to either "PPump or VE pump" the engine and that he would be happy to buy the old VP core from me. 

 

I have seen several posts on the PPump conversion but never heard of a VE pump conversion for my 24 valve engine. I simply cannot afford the $2500 costs that everyone says it costs on the PPump conversion, plus what I can see its a pretty involved process. As well I am working out in the  open in the driveway of my house so am not going to be able to yank the entire front end of the truck apart and leave it setting like this for weeks. The homeowners group would not let that happen... I can change a VP in 5-6 hours and they are fine with that but there are limits. 

 

Any suggestions or ideas? Or should I just put another overhauled VP on the truck and get something newer that does not have a VP on it?  Or is it time to buy a Power Stroke and be done with it? Friend of mine has a 7.3 Power Stroke with 300,000 miles on it and the original injection pump... 

 

Thx Joe

Edited September 30, 201410 yr by FlatTwin

i'd take it to frys automotive in flagstaff. best diesel shop i've heard of in AZ.

may be time for an upgrade trade it in.

i'd take it to frys automotive in flagstaff. best diesel shop i've heard of in AZ.

may be time for an upgrade trade it in.

Do you mean to have someone work on it or a place to trade the truck in? 

 

Thx, FT

He means shop mechanics.

 

I think Bosch should send all new parts free for a new 'P' pump after your second VP goes out. After all we paid dearly for our trucks in this expensive world.

Edited December 10, 201410 yr by JAG1

JAG you might want to read a thread I'm involved in over at CF.

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/98-5-02-powertrain/1419514-whats-our-beef-vp44.html

JAG you might want to read a thread I'm involved in over at CF.

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/98-5-02-powertrain/1419514-whats-our-beef-vp44.html

Mike, 

 

Thanks and I just finished looking at the thread. It hits on all the high points that have me so frustrated. Two VP's changed already and I have little faith in this one not stranding me somewhere. 

 

Am really leaning towards taking the truck to a good Diesel shop I know of around here and just handing it to them. If they can find the P1689 fault and fix it for under $500-1000 then lets do it otherwise really leaning towards trading the damm thing in on something newer, at least a common rail version Cummins...  I am two years away from retiring and cannot continue to shovel VP's and $$$ into this truck. Need something reliable...

 

Thx, FT

First thing is double checking the wiring between the ECM and the VP44. Wiring is fairly straight forward (pun intended!)...

 

 

As for the P1689 code again I would be looking at...

 

Fuel pump relay in the PDC.

Good battery cables both positive and negative. Being the VP44 ground is on the battery cable not the body.

Double checking the AC noise levels from the alternator. Being the alternator could be causing the failures of the electronics.

FlatTwin, You can fix that truck for loads less money than going for a different truck. You'll be taking a big bath selling a truck not running right.

I think the biggest mistake in ownership is not doing enough research/ reading to know exactly what should be done for maintenance and to get the right parts in general, just researching for the right supplier and rebuilder is paramount when spending that much on a VP. It's too bad human nature wants to go along with what someone said... trusting what's said without the research.

My experience has supported the idea that many people say words you love to hear, get your money but behind it all is something different. Somany people actually truely believe they are the best but in actuality is something different. It takes a long while to get wise to this ole' world.

FatTwin, be nice if you could get your truck into Mopar Man. he'd have it running smooth as glass.

First thing is double checking the wiring between the ECM and the VP44. Wiring is fairly straight forward (pun intended!)...

 

 

As for the P1689 code again I would be looking at...

 

Fuel pump relay in the PDC.

Good battery cables both positive and negative. Being the VP44 ground is on the battery cable not the body.

Double checking the AC noise levels from the alternator. Being the alternator could be causing the failures of the electronics.

 

Mike,

 

Thanks much for all this. 

 

Questions.... 

 

Is there anohter relay in the PDC that I could swap out for the fuel pump relay and test? Or is it better to just get another one at the parts place? My fuel pressures are always spot on and great (17-19psi) and rock solid. 

 

Both batteries were swapped out with new units two months ago (I always change them in sets) and several months before that I put all new battery cables and marine style (bolt on) terminal ends. Sitting voltage went up to over 12v then when I start the truck it immediately goes to 13.7 minimum where in the old days I had to get the engine off of idle to see a good voltage raise. Ground and power cables are both excellent and should not be an issue there. Now if there is a separate ground or power wire from the VP or VP harness please let me know and can go back and confirm that its in good condition. 

 

As far as the AC "noise" from the generator I really do not have any way to check that. I have simple VOM's around and am pretty handy but not an electronic whiz... I work on airplanes and they for the most part are 1930's tech. 

JAG,

 

My issue is reliability with the truck. It had nothing on it when I bought it and I did not know about the VP and fuel pressure issue. Drove it until it started hiccuping and then did some research. Put a Raptor 100 on the truck along with a Edge w/Attitude so that now I had a gauge. Course the VP puked anyways but that was not its fault... Then put a freshly overhauled VP on it from DAP in Utah and it lasted 13 months. As usual the guys up there would not even return my phone calls so never buying anything from them again. Then the first Raptor pump died and was replaced under warranty... then the second one died and they gave me a good deal on a AD 165 which so far has worked wonderfully. 

 

Then this summer the VP that I got from Conestoga Diesel in PA after a recomendation from an old friend. He said that he would stand by his products "even if it died in the 13th or 14th month" .... Well it died two weeks after the 1 year warranty time hit and his reply was "your warranty is out, nothing I can do" ....   So you might now get the idea why I am a bit pissed off at pretty much anyone associated with VP's and this system... 

And if it would help I know of a couple of cute 30 year old ladies that I might send up to Idaho to keep Mike warm for a while but guessing that his wife or lady friend might not agree!  

 

Thanks guys!

 

FT

FlatTwin, You can swap the relays around within the PDC since they are all the same. For checking the AC noise, all you do is select AC on your meter, start the truck, then put one lead of your VOM to the ground on te right battery and the other lead to the large terminal on the alternator. Watch the meter as someone revs the engine. Anything over .1 (one tenth) of a volt is a failed diode and should be repaired.

FlatTwin, For checking the AC noise, all you do is select AC on your meter, start the truck, then put one lead of your VOM to the ground on te right battery and the other lead to the large terminal on the alternator. Watch the meter as someone revs the engine. Anything over .1 (one tenth) of a volt is a failed diode and should be repaired.

 

Tom, 

 

Here is a video of my readings.

 

http://s876.photobucket.com/user/joeaksa1/media/Dodge%20alternator%20AC%20reading_zpstkdxwj9a.mp4.html

 

Thx,  FT

Also, forgot to mention I did check the relay and it appears to be fine.

 

Swapped another one and no change but just in case I bought a new one and tried it as well, all with no change. 

 

Thx, FT

Mike,

 

I checked and all the cables and leads appear to be fine, Photo below. 

 

Also I could not find a ground from the VP but then I have the Edge w/Attitude and there is a ground from the battery into the Edge module. It as well appears to be fine. 

 

Here is the main battery and the second one looks just the same but with less cables.

 

http://s876.photobucket.com/user/joeaksa1/media/Dodgemainbatteryconnections_zps3b499a0b.jpg.html

 

Thx, FT

Could you post your video and pictures somewhere else photobucket is way too deep in snooping scripts and such my browser just don't like it.

Could you post your video and pictures somewhere else photobucket is way too deep in snooping scripts and such my browser just don't like it.

Where would you suggest? Did not know that about Photobucket... 

 

Or could email them directly to you? 

Could you post your video and pictures somewhere else photobucket is way too deep in snooping scripts and such my browser just don't like it.

Ok here it is on YouTube....

 

Mike,

 

I checked and all the cables and leads appear to be fine, Photo below. 

 

Also I could not find a ground from the VP but then I have the Edge w/Attitude and there is a ground from the battery into the Edge module. It as well appears to be fine. 

 

Here is the main battery and the second one looks just the same but with less cables.

 

http://s876.photobucket.com/user/joeaksa1/media/Dodgemainbatteryconnections_zps3b499a0b.jpg.html

 

Thx, FT

Not to but in, but just to be on the safe side you may want to ohm those battery cables. I've seen some that look perfect but show a lot of resistance when you put the meter on it. Not uncommon for battery cables to deteriorate and separate inside of the rubber shielding.

Not to but in, but just to be on the safe side you may want to ohm those battery cables. I've seen some that look perfect but show a lot of resistance when you put the meter on it. Not uncommon for battery cables to deteriorate and separate inside of the rubber shielding.

I hate crimp connections, if I crimp I also solder it and don't use acid core it will eat wires slowly, use regular solder and clean as good as you can. Not saying that's your problem but don't trust crimp connections.

I quoted wrong guy but you get the idea.

Edited December 11, 201410 yr by Dieselfuture

Ok here it is on YouTube....

 

 

Getting marginal.

 

I wish there was a diode kit for our alternators. It would be nice to just purchase the diode pack and replace it. Normal good diode should be 0.01 to 0.02. Your 0.08 is very concerning.

Getting marginal.

 

I wish there was a diode kit for our alternators. It would be nice to just purchase the diode pack and replace it. Normal good diode should be 0.01 to 0.02. Your 0.08 is very concerning.

 So you think that this could be the problem? This video is the second time I ran it up and the first time it got up to .09 or so. Thats close enough to 1.0 to make me wonder... and a bit concerned.

 

If this could be an issue, especially losing VP's, then its cheap insurance to pull off and get it overhauled and make sure it has new diodes included.

 

Usually when a diode goes you can see some change in the voltage but I did not buy the truck new so it could have been this way for a long time.

 

Thx, FT

Yeah it just too far up. Like I said normal should be 0.01 to 0.02. You really close to getting the 0.10 mark time for a change of alternator...