For all you guys that run tuners, I`m just curious what, if any MPG gains could be expected by adding a tuner to a completely stock truck?

For now, I rarely tow anything worth mentioning with my 03.. At 160K I feel like I need to make some transmission upgrades before I try to load it up.

 

I`m just wondering if the MPG gains alone would be worth the investment?

If it helps you out;  I run my Smarty Revo SO6 on SW5 default settings.  That's the best "all around" setting for me....................I tow a lot and it doesn't get hot.  SW7 gets a bit hot for everyday.

John,

I know there is probably no way to answer all the questions until a guy just hooks one up and starts playing with it.

 

But, If you went with say SW 5 and POD @ 50.. then you turned the POD up to 99. What would be the noticable difference?

When you say throttle sensitivity, are you saying it changes the powerband .

 

For example one guy wants all the pwer he can get off idle vs A guy who wants to leave soft and make more power in the midrange.?

It changes the input. PoD 50 is the same as never going above 50% throttle.

You would hate the way it drives on PoD 50, it would feel like you have to floor it to do anything and you would have so little power above 2200 rpms it would be difficult to pass someone safely.

Drive it and feel it, best way to describe it.

I have been doing a lot of freeway driving with POD for the last 6 months.  I have monitored performance (i.e. acceleration, shift response and mpgs).  I ran two tanks of fuel at SW9, timing 2 and POD settings of 45; 50; 55; 60; 65; 70; 75 and 80% using torque management 3.  Now I am not a lead foot driver so I found driveability was really quite good in that I had no trouble with delayed shifts or lack of power to accelerate or pass and found my best mpgs on POD at 70%. It was just below 23mpg hand calculated.  I got nearly that same level of mileage (22.5+) on POD setting of 65 and 75 also.  An  interesting note is all this driving has been done with my 19.5s on. (heavier rolling mass than stock 17 inch tires but I think lower rolling resistance).

 

So this is not a scientific test in anyway but has been very interesting and my truck seems to like running with SW9, TM2, TQ3 but gets a little smokey when you pass somebody.

 

So continuing my exploration, I have switched torque management to level 1 (all other parameters the same) and have found that driving with POD at the lower levels really seems to magnify the shift characteristics and the acceleration and passing performance in a more noticeable and negative way (less responsive).  I have not done similar freeway driving so I can't really say much about mpgs yet.  Smoke on passing is less than on TQ setting of 3.

I have been doing a lot of freeway driving with POD for the last 6 months.  I have monitored performance (i.e. acceleration, shift response and mpgs).  I ran two tanks of fuel at SW9, timing 2 and POD settings of 45; 50; 55; 60; 65; 70; 75 and 80% using torque management 3.  Now I am not a lead foot driver so I found driveability was really quite good in that I had no trouble with delayed shifts or lack of power to accelerate or pass and found my best mpgs on POD at 70%. It was just below 23mpg hand calculated.  I got nearly that same level of mileage (22.5+) on POD setting of 65 and 75 also.  An  interesting note is all this driving has been done with my 19.5s on. (heavier rolling mass than stock 17 inch tires but I think lower rolling resistance).

 

So this is not a scientific test in anyway but has been very interesting and my truck seems to like running with SW9, TM2, TQ3 but gets a little smokey when you pass somebody.

 

So continuing my exploration, I have switched torque management to level 1 (all other parameters the same) and have found that driving with POD at the lower levels really seems to magnify the shift characteristics and the acceleration and passing performance in a more noticeable and negative way (less responsive).  I have not done similar freeway driving so I can't really say much about mpgs yet.  Smoke on passing is less than on TQ setting of 3.

 

John,

This is what really confuses me about Smarty tunes.. According to their webpage SW9 is a 210hp tune for 3rd gens. One would think this would be your setup for the drag strip, and without a very substancial turbo upgrade I would invision blocking out the sun at every stop light??

 

after years of hot rodding cars I have an understanding of how things work together, or end up working against each other, but I`m just having trouble understanding how these different tunes are working out for people?

Mine on sw9 doesn't smoke at all.

Edited December 2, 201410 yr by Killer223

John,

This is what really confuses me about Smarty tunes.. According to their webpage SW9 is a 210hp tune for 3rd gens. One would think this would be your setup for the drag strip, and without a very substancial turbo upgrade I would invision blocking out the sun at every stop light??

 

after years of hot rodding cars I have an understanding of how things work together, or end up working against each other, but I`m just having trouble understanding how these different tunes are working out for people?

I run SW9 for the timing advance that it gives and if you stomp on it you can generate lots of smoke because of the heavy fueling, but as I mentioned I don't drive with a heavy foot and there is virtually no smoke if you aren't pushing it.  Passing at hiway speeds for me is not mashing it to the floor but a more gradual use of the pedal to get past the vehicle I'm trying to pass.  Use of the pedal in this way is somewhat smoky but not a blackout by any means.  When I am running in torque management 3 I generate more smoke than when in torque management 1.

 

If you mash it from a dead stop then you are going to exhale a lot of smoke.

my truck must be special. no matter the setting. my truck does not belch black.

my truck must be special. no matter the setting. my truck does not belch black.

 HR, There has got to be something going on there.. 210HP fueling and won`t smoke? 

 HR, There has got to be something going on there.. 210HP fueling and won`t smoke? 

agreed. but without knowing my RP its kinda pointless to ask for help. truck runs an drives great. doesn't smoke. i do mean NO BLACK SMOKE. it will boil the tires if you drive it just right. but will not bubble black at all.

so someday i'll get a edge insite to read RP. then go from there.

 

http://youtu.be/GcSkE6fYCRw?list=UUVuwlr23wPbroviN_JfUDhQ

Edited December 3, 201410 yr by Killer223

The stock CP3 and injectors probably don't have the capability to smoke, under boost, as the turbo can keep up with them. But mash it at low rpms and it should smoke.

 

For stock trucks SW7 is usually more powerful than SW9 as SW9 demands too much pressure and fuel to be kept up with.

 

 

As for War's PoD tests the TQ3, which is very aggressive, was counteracting the PoD and why he could shift. Try PoD 40 with an auto on TQ1, as he did, and see how poorly it shifts.

Aside from city driving PoD should have zero effect on mileage, it doesn't change any of the tune parameters other than throttle.

 

For stock trucks SW7 is usually more powerful than SW9 as SW9 demands too much pressure and fuel to be kept up with.

 

 

 

 

Thats a fact on my truck!!

The stock CP3 and injectors probably don't have the capability to smoke, under boost, as the turbo can keep up with them. But mash it at low rpms and it should smoke.

 

For stock trucks SW7 is usually more powerful than SW9 as SW9 demands too much pressure and fuel to be kept up with.

 

 

As for War's PoD tests the TQ3, which is very aggressive, was counteracting the PoD and why he could shift. Try PoD 40 with an auto on TQ1, as he did, and see how poorly it shifts.

Aside from city driving PoD should have zero effect on mileage, it doesn't change any of the tune parameters other than throttle.

 

 ,,I thought I read somewhere that Smarty dyno tested their different SW levels on a stock truck?? If the stock CP3 were struggling to keep up it seems like the problem would only magnify with overstock injectors.

 

I would think if a guy could come up with an actual 500 rwhp tune with little, or no smoke it would be pretty sweet. I figure its going to take at least an injector, and turbo upgrade to achieve that goal. 

Dyno and street testing may result in different power.

 

I have a very simple 505rwhp tune for my truck that doesn't smoke at all, but I never run it. I just keep my ~415hp tow tune loaded all the time.

A totally stock 325HP 600ft.lb. '04.5-'07 truck should put down about 240-260HP and about 450-475ft.lbs. to the rear wheels on the rollers.  That's figuring in 20-25% driveline loss, which is usually considered "normal".  

 

So you need to figure the "GAINS" the Smarty gives you off the stock rear wheel baseline..................not the OEM engine dyno numbers.

A totally stock 325HP 600ft.lb. '04.5-'07 truck should put down about 240-260HP and about 450-475ft.lbs. to the rear wheels on the rollers.  That's figuring in 20-25% driveline loss, which is usually considered "normal".  

 

So you need to figure the "GAINS" the Smarty gives you off the stock rear wheel baseline..................not the OEM engine dyno numbers.

 

My truck put down 275/520 on stock, about a 15% loss. Despite the large drive-train, there is much less loss than the standard 25% you see on gas cars.

 

Based on that number I am about 140/330 over stock, which is not all that much less than the first Dodge Cummins (160/440). My flywheel power is probably around 490/1000, thou I did take a tiny  bit of fuel out so maybe 475/950 is more like it these days.

 

Those numbers go to show you how much timing make a difference on power. I do have BBI Stage 1's,  but run MUCH less duration than stock did, so the BBI's are not making anywhere near their full potential on fuel.

There is other factors in this conversation that your not considering too. Like fuel chemistry, weather factors, loading of the vehicle and other modifications. Like you could have everything going against you and get poor MPG one day with the very same tune then everything being perfect the next and be really high MPG's. So any kind of tuning and MPG figures can't be done and a tank to tank basis but long term period like several months or year span.