K&N to BHAF Conversion Question?

[dripley]

I run mine with no heat shield. I just started watching my IAT temps this summer and typically see temps of around 25* to 30* above ambient. Not sure what I will see this winter. I used the stock tube clamped to the BHAF. I fashioned a simple cradle out of a strip of aluminum for the filter to sit in bolted to two of the stock filter box mounting bolts. Simple but effective,

[joecool911]

Looks like mine...no shield. I like the bracket to hold up the filter!

[Mopar1973Man]

Like mine is roughly +40*F over outside temp normally. Yes hot summer it will dip down like yours to a milder +25*F to 30*F difference.

[klcammie]

I run mine with no heat shield. I just started watching my IAT temps this summer and typically see temps of around 25* to 30* above ambient. Not sure what I will see this winter. I used the stock tube clamped to the BHAF. I fashioned a simple cradle out of a strip of aluminum for the filter to sit in bolted to two of the stock filter box mounting bolts. Simple but effective,IMG_20150907_091939530_HDR1.jpg

I like the cradle you made, simple yet effective. IMHO you should add OuterWears to filter. I clean mine each oil change the paper still looks clean after 3+ years.

[recondoc]

Wow Gang,

I have a love/hate thing going with all of the great information here.  I keep learning a hell of a lot but it keeps reminding me of how much I still have to learn.

I really want this truck to run strong for several more years as it is planned to be my daughter's first vehicle in another 18 months.  She is already starting to drive it out on the ranch and around vacant parking lots.  Part of our deal is that she has to learn to do basic maintenance on it as well.

I huge THANK YOU to all who are inputing for my education.  I will be able to pass on so much more to her.

Doc

[dripley]

I like the cradle you made, simple yet effective. IMHO you should add OuterWears to filter. I clean mine each oil change the paper still looks clean after 3+ years.

I used to have an outer ware and got tired of messing with it so I pitched. it seemed to pick up any oil that was moving around.Had a good bit back when the tappet cover was leaking. The vent tube for my front diff puked some diff lube on it also. Might add one back one day.

[dripley]

Wow Gang,

I have a love/hate thing going with all of the great information here.  I keep learning a hell of a lot but it keeps reminding me of how much I still have to learn.

I really want this truck to run strong for several more years as it is planned to be my daughter's first vehicle in another 18 months.  She is already starting to drive it out on the ranch and around vacant parking lots.  Part of our deal is that she has to learn to do basic maintenance on it as well.

I huge THANK YOU to all who are inputing for my education.  I will be able to pass on so much more to her.

Doc

 

You and i have 2 different daughters for sure. I could see the look on my daughters face right now and then the question " what do you want me to do with that?". Shes just not a pickup girl. The expression on her face would be one for the books. 

I have been driving mine for 14 years and a member here for 5 and still keep learning. it is a work in progress.

[recondoc]

My girl took one look at the camo and the throatiness of the diesel and told me she wanted the truck.  That was in 2012 when I first bought it and she was only 11.  She's never let up since.  Just wants me to change the camo wrap to Muddy Girl Purple before she gets it.  

I figure it is the perfect first truck because it has lots of steel around her and will haul everything but ***.......and I know that she will learn the joys of being the only one in her friend group with a pickup truck.  Public service is good for building character. ;)

[Mopar1973Man]

Open invitation if you want to call me we can have a nice long chat about things...

[TFaoro]

Interesting... my IAT temps tend to sit around 25-30 deg above OAT. I guess that cold air intake doesn't do squat!

[Mopar1973Man]

Interesting... my IAT temps tend to sit around 25-30 deg above OAT. I guess that cold air intake doesn't do squat!

 

This is because the turbo super heats the air any ways and the intercooler does more for air cooling than a cold air intake. Also on the 24V engine there is a coolant passage under the manifold heating the air up again. also there is a coolant passage mere inches away from the IAT sensor. The 1/2" pipe plug is a coolant passage.

 

But once again the optimal IAT is 100-140*F... So as the air cools below this range you lose roughly 1 MPG for every 10* drop from this range. This is mostly daily drivers not racing. So yes if your racing you want cold air intakes. Daily drivers you want warmed air (100-140*F range).

[Vais01]

This is because the turbo super heats the air any ways and the intercooler does more for air cooling than a cold air intake. Also on the 24V engine there is a coolant passage under the manifold heating the air up again. also there is a coolant passage mere inches away from the IAT sensor. The 1/2" pipe plug is a coolant passage.

But once again the optimal IAT is 100-140*F... So as the air cools below this range you lose roughly 1 MPG for every 10* drop from this range. This is mostly daily drivers not racing. So yes if your racing you want cold air intakes. Daily drivers you want warmed air (100-140*F range).

I think I will add my 2 cents to this. Cold air intakes do absolutely nothing. As you drive down the road the underhood temperature is higher than the ambient air temperature and our airbox on the 2nd generation trucks is in the furthest rear position nearest to the turbo. The heated air is not just from the abient air, underhood temperatures but also from heat soak. As you drive and create boost the hot side charge air pipe already heated up due to boost air will also warm up due to heat soak during low boost driving conditions. Without eliminating this heat soak you accomplish almost nothing. Your incoming air is also on the hot side and the rubber and plastics used for the air box absorb heat. This heat is usually 5 to 25 degrees hotter than ambient temperature at road speed.

As Mr. Mike has said the efficiency and cooling capacity of the aftercooler is what will help you the most. The aftercooler is built for the trucks OE configuration and sized just barely larger so the air has enough time to sit in the aftercooler to be adequately cooled. You guys running larger turbochargers should also get larger aftercoolers to get the best cooling performance out of the charge air cooler. After that we have the cold side pipe which connects the aftercooler to the intake and even if the aftercooler has dropped the temperature to 100 degrees the air must pass through a heat soaked steel or aluminum pipe to transfer the air from the aftercooler to the intake. The temp may climb 5 to 15 degrees in this pipe. Once the air has entered the intake (OE intake not aftermarket) their is a small point of restriction where the air must speed up to enter the intake plenum. This does not produce additional heat but the back pressure on the rest of the system can but typically is minor 2 to 3 degrees. Once the air has entered the intake plenum it heats up again because the plenum is also the head. This is a good thing as we all know diesels have a hard time starting in cold temperature hence why we have grid heaters on our trucks. Some of you will ask why have you not mentioned the grid heater element as s point of restriction. The reason is actually because the grid heater restriction is absolutely minimal and also because the grid heater helps correct the turbulent airflow after the restriction point in the intake.

Now food for thought gentlemen, the IAT is mounted to the head at the rear of the plenum for a good reason, it's hotter there. This measures the air temp at its highest and adjusts the fueling accordingly. If you took the temperature in the intake prior to the plenum or grid heater you can see a 10 to 20 degree difference depending on your ambient temperature and your road speed. I monitor an air temperature sensor that is in the air intake and see a typical 5 to 10 degree (cooler) difference during highway cruising speed. I also have used aftermarket air boxes that use forced air (ram air from an external hood scoop) and saw minor differences in temperature. As of now the hood scoop is over the factory air box providing cooler air in that region helping prevent heat soak.

Heat does effect performance but with diesel engines it is not nearly as big an issue as gasoline engines.

Just a quick FYI the factory air box is a cold air system. It draws cool air from the wheel well between the fenders while cold air kits normally have an opening drawing hot or heated air from the engine bay.

[Mopar1973Man]

This measures the air temp at its highest and adjusts the fueling accordingly

 

Correction. IAT adjust timing. Hotter the temperature the more it retards the colder the more it advances. Fuel amount is controlled directly by your throttle foot.

 

Heat does effect performance but with diesel engines it is not nearly as big an issue as gasoline engines.

 

On gasoline engine you attempting to get the air cold enough to keep the fuel from pre-igniting. (Knock). Where with diesel your looking for warmer air to aid in ignition quality of the fuel. More so on colder days.

[Vais01]

Correction. IAT adjust timing. Hotter the temperature the more it retards the colder the more it advances. Fuel amount is controlled directly by your throttle foot.

On gasoline engine you attempting to get the air cold enough to keep the fuel from pre-igniting. (Knock). Where with diesel your looking for warmer air to aid in ignition quality of the fuel. More so on colder days.

This is 100% correct I just tried to dumb it down a bit.

[TFaoro]

Higher timing on the CR gives it better mileage..... Smarty's claim for the "mileage" setting (on a S03) has the highest timing. That's where I get my best mileage. Are we sure making the IAT warmer doesn't advance timing?

 

Discuss

[Vais01]

Higher timing on the CR gives it better mileage..... Smarty's claim for the "mileage" setting (on a S03) has the highest timing. That's where I get my best mileage. Are we sure making the IAT warmer doesn't advance timing?

Discuss

Duration changes and reduces power when temperature increases beyond 140 degrees but the fuel injection quantity remains the same. Alot of folks believe advancing the timing is a great way to receive better fuel economy. The truth is although it may help that is not the key reason for fuel economy gains.

Common Rail 5.9 trucks (depending on year) can have up to 3 injection cycles per cylinder during the powerstroke this reduces the sound and allows for higher cylinder pressure because the pressure of combustion is spread out evenly during the combustion event. This means if the common rail trucks have greater timing and duration controls and can modulate them over a wider range to create greater power and fuel economy. Timing is not the only factor involved in fuel economy.

[Mopar1973Man]

Also on CR engines they start out stock firing ATDC. I remember AH64ID posting the Smarty table of a stock timing table.

 

Now as for the 24V it only one massive event. The whole efficiency thing is based on getting that liquid fuel converted to vapor in a mere few degrees of crank travel to make it go BOOM! So as people go up injector sizes the atomization isn't as fine as the stock injectors but more fuel is pushed into the cylinder hence why most larger injectors get smoky because the droplets get to large and don't convert in a timely manner.

[TFaoro]

You can't change the duration on a VP truck. Duration is simply how long the injector is open, and on a mechanical system the duration will remain the same. Thus the only real control is timing and the amount of fuel (foot controlled)

 

I know how CR's work. I've been tuning them. Now I'm telling you simply raising the timing increased economy. I did not touch the duration or the rail pressure. Obviously it's not the only factor but lowering the timing alone reduces fuel economy.

 

 

So then as mike just said raising the timing and giving that fuel time to atomize and completely burn would increase the economy.

[Vais01]

Also on CR engines they start out stock firing ATDC. I remember AH64ID posting the Smarty table of a stock timing table.

Now as for the 24V it only one massive event. The whole efficiency thing is based on getting that liquid fuel converted to vapor in a mere few degrees of crank travel to make it go BOOM! So as people go up injector sizes the atomization isn't as fine as the stock injectors but more fuel is pushed into the cylinder hence why most larger injectors get smoky because the droplets get to large and don't convert in a timely manner.

Pretty much all that in a nutshell.

Just a preference of my own the liquid to vapor thing is not something I like hearing because liquid implies near zero atomization and the possibility of hydro - locked cylinders. I know exactly what you mean though and couldn't agree more.

[Vais01]

You can't change the duration on a VP truck. Duration is simply how long the injector is open, and on a mechanical system the duration will remain the same. Thus the only real control is timing and the amount of fuel (foot controlled)

I know how CR's work. I've been tuning them. Now I'm telling you simply raising the timing increased economy. I did not touch the duration or the rail pressure. Obviously it's not the only factor but lowering the timing alone reduces fuel economy.

So then as mike just said raising the timing and giving that fuel time to atomize and completely burn would increase the economy.

Increasing rail pressure would also have a similar effect. This is one of the reasons the pressure in a common rails have gone up.

A VP truck does have a duration adjustment Quadzilla has this option known as pump stretch. A VP44 can change timing and duration only. Go too far on the duration and your truck dies or has difficulty trying to run when you let off the throttle from a hard pull.