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New CJ-4 oils in older Flat Tappet Engine

Dieselfuture
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AH64ID

AH64ID

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Distance per day is a lot different than distance per trip even if you never shut the engine off, which is the point I was trying to make. When you say you travel a minimum of 100 miles that reads, to me, as per trip/engine start. A UPS truck might drive 200 miles in a day but never goes more than 3 miles without shutting off, which is an extreme example; however, if you just look at the distance per day you don't get a very good picture of its use. 

 

CJ-4 oil isn't bad oil at all I just happen to think CI-4 is better for my engine and my use and I will continue to use CI-4 as long as I can. 

 

TDR did a refresh of the article in 2012 but IIRC it was less inclusive than the original article. 

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Mopar1973Man

Mopar1973Man

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Even if I was to drive to Boise, ID I would start and stop the engine a few times. I do stop to take pee breaks, grab a bite to eat, stretch my legs, etc. So no matter what you going to stop and shut down a few times regardless. For a few minutes or longer. This is "real life" not a lab exercise or dyno-run where it can be left running forever. UPS driver LOL... You should see ours. Start it up and hit the highway and stomped to the floor board WOT till he reaches 65-70 MPH.

 

I won't knock the CI-4 oils. But again cost vs. availability is another problem for me. Is it worth it for me to drive long distance (Boise, ID or Lewsiton, ID) to gain the CI-4 oils or would it just be better to go to McCall, ID and buy a quality name brand CJ-4 oil in Napa that is on sale? There is another difference you live close to the big city of Boise, Nampa and Caldwell with plenty of options. But I know you AMSOil user so that's not so in your case.

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AH64ID

AH64ID

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Even if I was to drive to Boise, ID I would start and stop the engine a few times. I do stop to take pee breaks, grab a bite to eat, stretch my legs, etc. So no matter what you going to stop and shut down a few times regardless. For a few minutes or longer. This is "real life" not a lab exercise or dyno-run where it can be left running forever.

 

Which is exactly the point I was trying to make. Real life driving is not long haul driving and cannot be compared to it.

I won't knock the CI-4 oils. But again cost vs. availability is another problem for me. Is it worth it for me to drive long distance (Boise, ID or Lewsiton, ID) to gain the CI-4 oils or would it just be better to go to McCall, ID and buy a quality name brand CJ-4 oil in Napa that is on sale? There is another difference you live close to the big city of Boise, Nampa and Caldwell with plenty of options. But I know you AMSOil user so that's not so in your case.

There are very few places to get CI oil even if you make the drive north or south. I get mine from a guy across the street but like you said it's Amsoil.

CJ isn't bad oil.

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Mopar1973Man

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Which is exactly the point I was trying to make. Real life driving is not long haul driving and cannot be compared to it.

 

 

Even long haul I still stop every 100-150 miles or so. I done a few trip of 600 miles in a day. Even at 100-150 miles that's 2-3 hours of sitting in the seat. Even when I did ride along with "Fetch N Carry" trucking the driver are the same way about 2-3 hours and stop. Very few people can go beyond that... Again this is local trucking on US95 and not interstate travel like most do.

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Mopar1973Man

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Ok... I give you the fact the scenery is much better up here...  :thumb1: 

 

As for driving and use. Compare the fact of most common folks live in a large city and barely drive 10 miles total to work every day. One of my favorite question I ask people on the phone is how far to your local MalMart? What funny a majority of people tell me its 2-10 miles away. So I would say those folk would have more failures because of short driving. Right? Like my total ending mileage for today was 131 miles. 

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AH64ID

AH64ID

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You are dwelling on the total miles too much. How many starts/stops? How much idle time? Average speed? Etc... I could drive 300 miles a day of HORRIBLE miles but not be in your short trip category.

 

Your driving is better than most but I wouldn't put most diesel pickup owners in a big city. A bigger city, YES but not always a BIG city.

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Mopar1973Man

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Idle time is next to nothing. Average speed is 45-65 MPH. Rarely do I run 75-80 MPH (Fire Calls). Starts a stops like today 4 starts and stops.
 

 

I wouldn't put most diesel pickup owners in a big city. A bigger city, YES but not always a BIG city.

 

:lol:  Majority of my phone calls come from either New York, Texas or California most are in large cities. I've got one gent that is just outside of New York city. Several guys that call quite often from around Huston Texas Area... 

 

But yes there is a group of guys that are ranchers/farmers and such that are off the beaten path as well.

 

Thing is I don't think that most folks that clear say 30-40k miles a year have much to worry about. Now the ones that barely clear 3-7k miles a year... Now you got some serious stop start counts. Short distance driving. Incomplete warm up cycles. Which reminds me of a chap in New York City which that all he do for total mileage a year is mere 3k miles. :sofa:

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Mopar1973Man

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Distance to Walmart- 80 miles

Distance to town (pop. 2,000)- 12 miles

Distance to the big city- 70 miles

Distance to work- 12.5 miles

My CJ-4 oil does good even with lots of short trips.

 

Not bad... :thumb1:

 

Distance to Ontario, OR WalMart 125 miles

Distance to Town 15 miles north (Riggins) or 20 miles south (New Meadows) Nothing there... Just food and fuel... nothing more..

Distance a full service town 35 miles (McCall)

Distance to Big City Ontario, OR 125 miles

Distance to work varies but like today cover 131 miles...

 

Thing is start and stopping and idle time is pretty low with me because of the distance you have to travel to get to anything. That like a person in a large city that travel miles of traffic lights stop & go and lots of idle time.

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Vais01

Vais01

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Ok so my TDR doc is out of date but I've never found anything newer. Is TDR going to release a newer article?

As for my distance. I don't just drive to town once. I might drive to McCall for parts, I might drive to White bird to work on fire trucks, then drive home for dinner, then drive back out for New Meadows, ID for hardware. You never know here but my average minimum distance is about 100 miles per driving day.

As For oil I'm never going to profess to be absolute perfect but... CJ-4 oils can't be the work of the devil either. Way to many vehicle on the highway with dumb people going to Jiffy Lube and changing oil. Their vehicles didn't just fall apart. As for using CajFylnn yes he's one of my documented people I can use for distance. As for other there was a few others but slipped away before reaching 1 million. A few here that well past 500k miles without much effort again slipped way with little documentation.

Now working in two shops now I can say that there is more people that just don't give a darn and use what ever is cheap. There is a few people in the years I've doing work that will provide a synthetic oil for there rig. (Very Very Rare!). But in all the oil changes I've done I've seen plenty of CJ-4 dumped in a crankcase and plenty dump out and never seen any diesel dying from it. I've got Ford diesel's with 300k and 400k miles and still kicking around me. Dodge Cummins trucks same way 300k to 500k miles easy.

I will say yes that CJ-4 isn't like CI-4 oils but it's not the end of the world nor is the crank going to grind way to nothing.

CJ-4 is good oil that's for sure. I run synthetic for several reasons including longer than normal drain intervals and because I may not be capable of plugging in if I'm in cold climates.

The TBN values alone are not that different 12 on average for CI-4 and 10 for CJ-4. CI-4 Plus was a whole different animal. Huge TBN values.

As far as additives go they have reduced some zink and phosphorous and pulled alot of sulfur out.

Ck-4 is the next generation and honestly I am afraid to mention the things I have read. Drastically lower phosphorus levels and several other reduced values. They have not stated whether or not this will also apply on the reverse compatible oils. Hopefully this is sorted out. As of now the formulation has been frozen and no one is allowed to alter it. Engine manufacturers such as Ford have raised concerns but it's falling on deaf ears.

I'm staying hopeful though.

Edited by Vais01
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Dieselfuture

Dieselfuture

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Yeah that is the adapter I saw. 

 

Unless there is a big plate with the adapter you cannot go larger with just a small piece.

They made it sound like it was the way to get around amsoil fitting, marketing trick. I guess if you had 3/4 thread and wanted to go to 1" that adapter would work. P.s. It's not a good quality adapter ether, cheaseled looking. Guess I'm stuck buying EABP for now, if I don't put a lot of miles do i need to change it every year or can I go three years as long as it's still flowing. Guy at amsoil said I shouldn't go past two years because media and glue can go bad.
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Mopar1973Man

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Now that sounds scary...

 

 

Ck-4 is the next generation and honestly I am afraid to mention the things I have read. Drastically lower phosphorus levels and several other reduced values. They have not stated whether or not this will also apply on the reverse compatible oils. Hopefully this is sorted out. As of now the formulation has been frozen and no one is allowed to alter it. Engine manufacturers such as Ford have raised concerns but it's falling on deaf ears.

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