new vp, new lift pump, new ecm, still got nothin

[jdh01]

So I am new to the site, read quite a bit about similar issues and tried a lot of others suggestions, here's my particular problem, please help!!! Been at this over a year...

 

It started with the lift pump failing, not a big deal, 300,000+ miles... so I put a fass 160gph titanium edition lift pump in, started and ran better than it ever had, too good to be true, drove up the street and back, bout 2 miles or so, and it died pulling in the driveway, Cracked the injector line and had a very weak flow...

 

Now please make note when the original vp died, it didn't throw any codes, just mechanically died, went through thoroughbred diesel and got the one that has brand new electronics..

 

Anyway, I got it in there, bled all the lines, now I had amazing flow at the injectors, and started cranking, nothing... no pops clack or anything, I then realized the check engine light was staying on, pulled the code, and got 1688, and 1689. I do understand what these codes mean, being that they weren't present when the old one died, I figured it was the new pump had bad electronics, as it was the only thing that was changed and worked fine before.

 

So I talked to thoroughbred, and they insisted it was in no way possible that it was the new vp, and with the information I gave them they recommended flashing the software to see if it would correct the communication issue, no such luck, and after doing some more of their tests they concluded with me that it was a bad ecm, well, several hundred dollars later, new ecm, to the dealership to have it flashed, and nothin... 

 

Two more things to note, when I installed the vp I also lost the lift pump feed from the computer, and also it will start and run with the cummins vp test box..

 

I've checked several though probably not all the grounds and the voltage at the pump, also several other things, if you would like to know something in particular please ask, I will go look at it and post the answers back as soon as I see the post, it's my only job at the moment and have a lot of free time

 

Lol not to complain unnecessarily, but I've had the truck here for over a year and have had multiple other mechanics looking at it, been on countless sites and on the phone for days collectively.. so any help is much appreciated

 

Thank you

 

P.s. it's a 2000, 2500 extra cab, sticker date is 12/99, I know they had a change in there somewhere, just figured finite information never hurts lol

[Me78569]

if you clear codes and try to crank again do the codes come back?

 

I am gonna say you have a bad vp44 form throughbreed.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Me78569

[jdh01]

Yes, immediately

[Me78569]

with what you said then I am almost betting your "new" vp44 isn't working.  If it is under warranty still I would insist they replace it since you have replaced everything else. 

 

If it isn't under warranty call DAP and pony up for a new pump through him.

[IBMobile]

30 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

with what you said then I am almost betting your "new" vp44 isn't working.  If it is under warranty still I would insist they replace it since you have replaced everything else. 

 

If it isn't under warranty call DAP and pony up for a new pump through him.

You've done  what Thoroughbred thought was wrong with them diagnosing it over the phone, had several mechanics check it over,  it may well be a bad 'new' pump.  I've had it happen several times over the years where a new part out of the box was bad.  The car acted the same as with the old part.  I chased the problem around till I figured it had to be a bad "new part". 

 

 

[Me78569]

Did the exact same thing with governor solenoids in the trans.  I spent months looking for an issue that was due to my bad "new" solenoids.

[jdh01]

I have had that problem before as well, I was hoping not to have to pull it out again, but seems like the next step is to warranty it, if you guys can't come up with something, and that doesn't work I think I'll just replace the entire wiring harness cause at that point it's gotta be a bad wire somewhere..

[Me78569]

That sounds like a good plan, but if there was no code before and now you have one, either the pump is bad or a wire got damaged when you did the r&r

 

 

[dripley]

If it runs in the test box does that not eliminate the pump as the problem? I had never heard of this test box before so I Googled it and if I am reading it right if it runs using it, the pump is ok. The only other test I am familiar with is the one at Blue Chip.http://www.bluechipdiesel.com/vp44diagnostichelp.html

Does your lift pump function properly now?

[Dieselfuture]

I would have to agree with Dripley, if it runs with an external control box then there is something going on with electronics in the truck. Or wiring. Could be a pin on some connector got puled out a bit, pull all plugs and look inside to make sure pins are all there. 

[Ilikeoldfords]

One place to look would be the electrical in the steering column. I have heard of issues there especially if you adjust the steering wheel up and down. The wiring coming from the ignition switch might be messed up.

One question, do you get a wait to start light like normal?

[jdh01]

Thank you for all the suggestions I have tried all the stuff on the blue chip site FYI doing the hot wire on that page is the same as putting the test box on it, the connectors are in decent shape nothing that would cause me to believe they are damaged, the one thing I haven't tried is to see if I have voltage on 7 while cranking, due to the fact no one was here to help me at the moment.

 

I had considered tearing the column  apart we removed the dash for heater core at one point and I had wondered if something wasn't put together right, but the truck ran for a year and a half after the job... should probably test it anyway.. yes the wait to start light comes on and functions normally 

 

As of recently I have been doing some more research, and I believe that at least part of it is bad connections, the truck has always had flickering lights and will kill new batteries in a year or so, so I'm also thinking the alternator may have the a\c voltage thing going on, as well which I've read can kill the pump, computer and cause trans shift issues, now granted it's all new and never been ran, since it wont, lol, but is there another part if the computer system that may have been affected?  Does the computer on the firewall interact with the ecm as far as running the motor, or is that just drive train control\trans? 

 

I have the power probe back, I'm going to try, essentially the hotwire, but with it connected to the computer just to see if it make a difference, I've got a slight hunch that it is showing voltage freely, and dropping out under load..

 

As well as test the ignition switch for proper voltage.

 

Having the alternator tested tomorrow, and new batteries, will get back with the results of it and the other taests that I can accomplish,

 

Thank you again, 

 

Jeremy

 

 

 

On a side note, this is what the connector on the back of the alternator looked like when I pulled it out earlier today

K, never mind my phone won't let me upload the pic, anyway it's full of corrosion...

[jdh01]

So I've got the truck running, finally, turns put my hunch was right, it's dropping pin 7 voltage under load.

 

I'm very excited, but I've still got issues, 

 

I now have,  p0234, (on a side note it didn't have this code till I drove up the street sideways with my foot to the floor, pumping the biggest cloud of smoke I've ever seen, so I don't think it's regulating it's fuel properly and spooling the turbo harder than it would under normal circumstances) and still have p1689, and it sounds like the thing has a nastier cam than anything I've ever driven

 

This truck is bone stock, so I should not have this much power, (not that I'm complaining) but the truck has to pass smog to bring the reg back into California, and the lope is severely violent

 

I have seen kits on the net to make the truck lope, does anyone know what these kits do? Cause if I can reverse engineer that it might help me solve that issue 

 

Now I'm not sure exactly where it's losing its power to the pin, I spliced into the wire near the pump, and so maybe the reason I still have issues is that the power loss is bigger than just the one wire, 

 

Does anyone know where the green wire with the red tracer comes from? Or have an idea why I could be losing power under load? 

 

[balsip]

Jeremy,  I have been through much of your replacements for slightly different reasons. I replaced my VP44 five years ago due to  a stuck timing error code (P0216) and when I replaced the VP44, I increased my mileage by 10%.  I did get that P0234 code you have when I chipped it with a mild Diablo  Puck. Turned out the waste gate was stuck at the actuator linkage joint and just needed some cleaning and never seize lube.  One thing is when you initially get P0234, the ECM goes into limp mode where it de-fuels until boost is under 22 psi again.  Very rough and falls on its face. It  throws the P0234 at about 24 to 24.5 psi. I used an adjustable boost elbow that bleeds air from the actuator air supply after an 1/32" orifice(to limit air loss) in order to increase  the boost by opening waste gate later than stock. I would have needed a "boost fooler"  (a zener diode at MAP sensor voltage equivalent to 24.3 PSI boost or so to limit max  voltage seen by ECM)   otherwise in order to get more power without codes. The 47RE auto would not take that kind of torque anyway. The fact that you are seeing balls of black smoke  needs looking into since your  "over boost" usually means too much air (and not too little air which is usual cause of black smoke). Perhaps the VP is defective and supplying far too much fuel for the APPS position? Anyway, you should look at Michael's wiring drawing below and fill out your signature so everyone can see your setup at a glance and you will get more replies.  

Michael's Wiring ECM/VP44  You can get all the wire colors there.

Edited December 31, 2015 by balsip

[jdh01]

Thank you for the information, I will have to lube the actuator and see if that helps

Unfortunately I took it too a shop, and they couldn't tell me anything I didn't already know

Even worse after the 60 mile round trip I was backing it into its spot, I gave it some throttle, with my foot on the brake, and something underneath went pop and now it won't move, and it makes the most delightful grindy noise from underneath, so I think it's gonna get back burnered for now...