NV5600 Fluid, Fast Coolers, Filter

[Mopar1973Man]

I've just found bug with ISSPro gauges. With the highways being wet, slushy, and salted the gauge jump up to 160 to 180 in temperature. As the connector dried out the gauge went back to 100. Also stopped and hand check the temp and it was cool to the touch. So be aware of this issue.

[KATOOM]

14 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

I've just found bug with ISSPro gauges. With the highways being wet, slushy, and salted the gauge jump up to 160 to 180 in temperature. As the connector dried out the gauge went back to 100. Also stopped and hand check the temp and it was cool to the touch. So be aware of this issue.

 

Good to know.

[Mopar1973Man]

As for the NV4500 transmission and 50 SAE fluid been doing good. Even with cold start here in Boise at 17 degrees it's shifting well. I think it would improve shift quality if I could get at least 120 to 130 transmission temps. Rather hard short trip of less than 5 miles and blowing cold wind on the transmission.

[dripley]

My temp sensor has gone whacky, but I am pretty sure mine is a wiring issue. Just jumps all over the place with 100* swings. Seems to happen more on the highway than anywhere else. Still happens in town but not near as bad. Thought it had something to do with the surging I was experiencing but dont think so. thinking more on the connector that is hanging in the wind at the tranny. 

[Mopar1973Man]

I'm going to clean the plug and pack it with dielectric grease. Try again. My truck today is no longer maroon it's salt grey.

[Dieselfuture]

I couldn't wait any longer, plus I wanted to relocate temp sensor and add a cooler cover with a sight glass , then I had a beer and got board. So I got the filter out to see what it all trapped in 4 years and about 30k. I was surprised that fluid came out pretty much as it went in clean with minimal synchro shavings. I believe most of garbage got trapped in this little filter gizmo. I had my doubts that it would do anything, but to my surprise it trapped stuff. Filter was still not plugged just discolored, there are 2 rare earth magnets one on each side of filter that had little bit of dusting on them. Overall I'm happy with the results and probably won't touch filter for at least 60k or more. Got it all rtv back, sometimes tomorrow I'll put fluid back through shifter tower. Then I got to deal with tcase. Got new bushing for driveshaft that I had forever and new seal to put in. The back housing is weeping around that aluminum gasket and it looks like some sort of aluminum goo that is seeping, weird. Fluid came out clean, will find out tomorrow. Tired of this drip, but it's Soo small that when I filled tcase last time I overfilled it just a bit and when I went to drain it I took too plug out first to see if it's full and some fluid came out. So the leak is minute but is driving me nuts.that fuzzy stuff is a chunk of a filter, I rtved it to that cover, so when I yanked filter off some of it stayed. It's not metal shavings.

Edited October 4, 2020 by Dieselfuture
Better picture

[dripley]

I had my doubts about those filters too. But it appears to work to some degree.

[Dieselfuture]

9 hours ago, dripley said:

I had my doubts about those filters too. But it appears to work to some degree.

Majority of wore parts were in there, I'm happy I got it. Hopefully won't be looking in there anytime soon. 

Another note, this amsoil smells different then last batch, I had a bottle left and for whatever reason smelled both and they sure smell different. Maybe different additive package, be nice to know why, now I'll be wondering fool. 

[dripley]

8 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

Majority of wore parts were in there, I'm happy I got it. Hopefully won't be looking in there anytime soon. 

Another note, this amsoil smells different then last batch, I had a bottle left and for whatever reason smelled both and they sure smell different. Maybe different additive package, be nice to know why, now I'll be wondering fool. 

Mine is need of a refresh. Synchros are getting a bit thin. This one has about 320k on it if the junk yard I bought it from did not lie about the mileage. Wish I knew how but its way over my head. 6 speeds aint cheap to get worked on unless you dont care who does it or what they use for parts. 

[Dieselfuture]

28 minutes ago, dripley said:

Mine is need of a refresh. Synchros are getting a bit thin. This one has about 320k on it if the junk yard I bought it from did not lie about the mileage. Wish I knew how but its way over my head. 6 speeds aint cheap to get worked on unless you dont care who does it or what they use for parts. 

Not sure what I'm going to do later, my 3rd is weak need to be easy on it, it's been this way since I got the truck. I'll probably rebuild it myself or get a used one then rebuild it idk, maybe get a used g56 all depends on prices and how I'll be feeling that day. Crazy how clean this transmission looks inside and hardly any wear on gears, it's a shame they have weak synchros. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Just easier to change the fluid when it time and use a magnet on the PTO cover that picks up the very same metal without a filter. Hmmm....

[Dieselfuture]

2 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Just easier to change the fluid when it time and use a magnet on the PTO cover that picks up the very same metal without a filter. Hmmm....

Guess it depends on how bad you have ocd for the truck 

That filter trapped 90% or more of brass that otherwise would just keep going through the transmission over and over. Magnets had very little dusting on them. Probably be fine ether way, having a filter or not and just changing fluid every 50k or so. At least I know now that it does help.

[Dieselfuture]

Her is a better picture

[dripley]

I need to change mine. I run the Penzoil synchromesh and got a great deal at NAPA a while back at 5 bucks a quart including tax. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Back when I was using the Mopar fluids it would run a full 100k miles on the factory fluid. I just can't see the 27 dollar a quart price tag any longer. 

 

Switch over to the Mobil 50 SAE GL-4 and change interval is now reduced to 50k-75k miles roughly. It darkens quick. When the fluid is dark the material in the oil is spent. As for glitter or metals I only had that issue with the pilot bearing fell out and ruined the input shaft bearing and filled the case with glitter. 

 

Even with my temp probe in the PTO cover I rare to reach above 160*F trans temp on the highway. Even hauling the RV to Arizona I only got to 200*F in the desert heat (100 to 110*F) on a long grade pull (15 plus miles long 6-7%). Rest of the time it would settle back to 160 to 170*F for normal flat ground. This is partially because I went down in my tire size to 30 inch tires and increase the final ratio reducing stress on the transmission. 

 

Like yesterday came out with 2 cords of firewood and after a about 25 mile hike out forest I barely made 160*F.

 

Still to this day no coolers and still running Mobil 50. 

 

Edited October 5, 2020 by Mopar1973Man

[Dieselfuture]

8 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Still to this day no coolers and still running Mobil 50. 

Yhea some days I wish they would have put better synchros in these "bulletproof" nv5600 so I can run gear oil, got plenty of it sitting around, I'm just not that brave to find out what happens if I do 

[Mopar1973Man]

Just to point out something. When you measuring temperatures between devices. Anything that creates heat is a loss of power. Part of the work energy that is created into heat is a bad sign meaning your pushing too hard, ratios are wrong or just plan abusing the truck. When you start looking at efficiency and heat reduction its about reduction inefficiency when you do you'll find everything runs cooler in result without the need of coolers. Just in what I figure out in tuning I managed to reduce the engine oil temps 20 to 30 degree (165 o 175*F) typically. Then transmission temps fell when I reduced the tire size to 30 inch. Better final ratio even affected the engine oil temps again too. So as you weed out the drag anf inefficiencies then the rest falls in place.  

 

1 minute ago, Dieselfuture said:

Yhea some days I wish they would have put better synchros in these "bulletproof" nv5600 so I can run gear oil, got plenty of it sitting around, I'm just not that brave to find out what happens if I do 

 

You could jump to Mobil 50 as well. That is like 90 weight. I'm running brass syncros and carbon fiber both. (1st and 2nd carbon fiber and 3rd, 4th, and 5th are brass). I'm using the very same fluid used in 10 speed Eaton Fuller transmissions. 

More on the gear lube comment. Normal 80w-90 gear lube is typically GL-5 which will damage the brass or carbon fiber syncros. This is why both NV4500 and NV5600 require a GL-4 transmission fluid. Both transmission should be running a synthetic transmission fluid. Just going to PenzOil page and checking it doesn't list as a synthetic fluid and the technical data sheet is not available. I know its not listed as a GL-4 fluid because it TOO THIN! 

 

Hence why it can't be classed as GL-4 fluid... Straight from Pennzoil Page.

Quote

Pour point is less than -39°C. Low temperature viscosity in a -40°C Brookfield test of 50,000 cPs maximum, less than a 75W gear oil and the cold cranking viscosity less than a typical conventional SAE 5W engine oil

 

Viscosity chart...

[Ironforger]

On 10/5/2020 at 8:11 AM, Mopar1973Man said:

Mobil 50 SAE GL-4

 

Is the Mobile 50 SAE GL-4 also known as "Delvac 1"?  And just to confirm, you are recommending this for the NV5600 as well as the NV4600?  

 

I've been running the Penz Syncrhomesh for years in my NV5600 but I'm ready to try something different. I feel my trans temps seem to run high (200f average in 5th gear on long distance highway towing 20ft enclosed car trailer, approx 18,000 lbs total weight truck and trailer combined.  If I run 6th gear while towing the trans temps immediately rise, went as high as 250f one day before I dropped it back down to 5th).  Doesn't matter if trailer is empty or not. Trans temps rise regardless when I tow in 6th.

 

Willing to try the Mobile 50 to see if that helps keep my trans temps down.  Taking a highway trip to Florida  with that same trailer in a couple weeks. 2k miles round trip from New Jersey.  Maybe great chance to test the Mobile 50.

 

 

On 10/5/2020 at 8:11 AM, Mopar1973Man said:

Mobil 50 SAE GL-4

 

Is the Mobile 50 SAE GL-4 also known as "Delvac 1"?  And just to confirm, you are recommending this for the NV5600 as well as the NV4600?  

 

I've been running the Penz Syncrhomesh for years in my NV5600 but I'm ready to try something different. I feel my trans temps seem to run high (200f average in 5th gear on long distance highway towing 20ft enclosed car trailer, approx 18,000 lbs total weight truck and trailer combined.  If I run 6th gear while towing the trans temps immediately rise, went as high as 250f one day before I dropped it back down to 5th).  Doesn't matter if trailer is empty or not. Trans temps rise regardless when I tow in 6th.

 

Willing to try the Mobile 50 to see if that helps keep my trans temps down.  Taking a highway trip to Florida  with that same trailer in a couple weeks. 2k miles round trip from New Jersey.  Maybe great chance to test the Mobile 50.

 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

29 minutes ago, Ironforger said:

s the Mobile 50 SAE GL-4 also known as "Delvac 1"?  And just to confirm, you are recommending this for the NV5600 as well as the NV4600?

 

According to my rebuilder (Abe) at Weller truck it could be used in both NV4500 and NV5600. Now other members here will argue over this fact. Like PenzOil Syncromesh is not a full GL-4 lube because it just TOO THIN you will not find a GL rating on PenzOil. No mention of being synthetic either.

 

 I've got over 150k miles on Mobil 50 SAE with no issues. Never had a fluid failure yet. Power failures (breaking gear teeth off), pilot bearing failure, etc but never a fluid failure. Both transmission should be on GL-4 because of the syncros which GL-5 will attack yellow metal and carbon fiber syncros. The only current GL rating is GL-4 for transmissions and GL-5 axles and differentials. GL-1, GL-2, GL-3 and GL-6 are obsolete. 

 

I asked Abe about Valvoline 75w-90 it meets the GL-4 rating but... It is not a synthetic gear lube. This is not suggested in our transmissions either NV4500 or NV5600.

 

Currently have both carbon fiber and brass syncros. Reverse, 1st gear and 2nd gear are carbon fiber. Now 3rd, 4th and 5th are all brass. Still in all GL-4 is design around all syncros. 

 

None of my failures are fluid related..



 

Broke the mainshaft at 3rd and 4th gear.

 

29 minutes ago, Ironforger said:

I've been running the Penz Syncrhomesh for years in my NV5600 but I'm ready to try something different. I feel my trans temps seem to run high (200f average in 5th gear on long distance highway towing 20ft enclosed car trailer, approx 18,000 lbs total weight truck and trailer combined.  If I run 6th gear while towing the trans temps immediately rise, went as high as 250f one day before I dropped it back down to 5th).  Doesn't matter if trailer is empty or not. Trans temps rise regardless when I tow in 6th.

 

Never ran that hot even towing around here. I just pulled that trailer out of the back country with over 2 cords of wood and never got over 160*F. The Lube is a bit thicker cold but has awesome cold weather characteristics it is a full synthetic lube. My temp probe is in the PTO cover on the driver side. 

 

https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/for-businesses/heavy-duty-lubricants/products/mobil-delvac-1-transmission-fluid-50/

 

 

Typically sells for about $250 a 5 gallon bucket. Breaks down to $12.50 a quart. Still cheaper than Mopar fluid I use to buy at $27 a quart. Shift performance is good all the way down to -40*F and all the way up to 220*F of trans fluid.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Mopar1973Man

[Ironforger]

6 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

According to my rebuilder (Abe) at Weller truck it could be used in both NV4500 and NV5600.

Great info. Thanks @Mopar1973Man !

 

I'll give the Mobile 50/delvac1  a try. I found it at summit racing for 39.99 / gal.

 

Since it's gl-4 specific I could try it in my 99 Nissan Maxima 5speed trans too. I had difficulty finding a gl-4 specific trans lube locally for that car - ended up going with a lube I found at NAPA,  Sta-lube (crc) 85-90 but it's too thick for the nissan, on cold mornings the car will roll forwards when in neutral.

 

I don't trust lubes that say they are "compatible with gl-5 and gl-4".  I've heard that it's really just gl-5.

 

18 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Broke the mainshaft at 3rd and 4th gear.

Wow, were you towing or running it hard when that happened?  I hope I never have a fail like this. I would be S.O.O.L. without my truck.   But just in case I'm thinking I'm gonna try to find a decent used NV5600 to keep on the shelf.

@Mopar1973Man Forgot to ask, are you over-filling the NV4600?  I'm over filling my NV5600 until it drips out of the top PTO cover bolt. 

24 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

My temp probe is in the PTO cover on the driver side. 

 Agree, I have my temp probe in the same place.