New Cummins owner - Intro and beating the dead horse on fuel delivery

[jokra]

Just an update for those interested in what Richard@GDP had to say about using a Fuel Boss alongside the in-tank pump on my 2001. First of all, you all were right - what a great guy. Easy to talk to, picked up the phone right away, and is a straight shooter. In fact, he told me I really don't need to change anything on the truck at the moment...more on that later.

 

I can definitely run a Fuel Boss alongside my in-tank pump in order to have it for priming and as an on-the-fly backup in case the Fuel Boss belt breaks or something like that. What I need to do if I go this route is make the order over the phone, as he will get me the 2005-2007 install kit, but with the 2001 pump mounting bracket. The 05-07 kit includes its own draw-straw style pickup tube that the Fuel Boss will pull from. Then after leaving the pump, you T to the factory filter and to the return. The existing in-tank pump continues to be plumbed directly to the factory filter as well, with a check valve in place so that it only runs and pumps fuel if/when the Fuel Boss is not keeping up to pressure. This way the in-tank will run during starting and for priming, and if the Fuel Boss stops working. Otherwise, the Hobbs switch turns off the in-tank as soon as pressure is up.

 

He said at least half of their customers use no electric lift pump whatsoever. As long as you don't lose prime, you never need to use the electric during starting. When it comes time to prime, you can either remove the inlet line from the VP and crank the engine to pull fuel through, or some people just pop the belt off the Fuel Boss and spin it with a drill or something similar, and manually prime it that way.

 

Rich then asked me what my current numbers were on my in-tank. When I told him 8 idle and that I can drop it below 5 when I step on the gas he said "That's normal, probably been those same numbers since it was installed. If you're not modifying the truck at all, I'd just drive and enjoy it." The majority of the failed VPs that he has seen have boiled down to a build issue with the board, not having anything to do with fuel pressure. On mine particularly, since the VP44 was replaced in 2008 with a new one from Chrysler, I should have one of the newer "good" ones that do not have this design flaw, and it'll probably run forever just like it is.

 

While that makes me feel better about puttsing around with it here and there unloaded, I still plan to upgrade the lift pump before I tow anything serious with it. ;)

[Mopar1973Man]

I've not heard of any belts breaking as of yet for the fuel Boss pump setup. 

[dripley]

My in tank pump, about a year old at the time was putting out 5 at idle and near 0 at WOT. Way lower than the pressures advised at the time. Just was not any fun since I paid a dealer almost a grand for it.

[Dieselfuture]

10 hours ago, dripley said:

My in tank pump, about a year old at the time was putting out 5 at idle and near 0 at WOT. Way lower than the pressures advised at the time. Just was not any fun since I paid a dealer almost a grand for it.

Them dirty bastards, I feel your pain. Took wife's car in to dealer for a rear bumper replacement and at first it was 1700 and day and half, ended up being 2800 and over 2 weeks. Hate dealers with passion. This was insurance claim hit and run, she got guys plates so cops found him and he confessed. But no insurance or license, and her car is a lease, so she took it to dealer she got it from, we paid 500 deductible. Finally got car back and bumper is on there with a huge gap 1/2" on one side and sticking out, told her you better take it back or I will, but it won't be pretty. She took care of it and got a free car wash out it. What a waste of time these  ( bad word ) are. Not the first time erher dealer not giving a rats ***. I could go on for a while, but wife is happy got her new car back. Women. Without them the world would stop turning. 

[jokra]

Guys, thanks again for all the advice on this topic. I finally decided on a solution and finished installing it this week.

 

I ended up going with a GDP Fuel Boss mechanical pump that is fed from a Beans Diesel Sump. Going the route of the sump solved the following issues I was concerned about:

1. It allowed me to continue using my in-tank pump as a backup. Since I didn’t have to modify the basket at all, my in-tank pump is still sitting there happily running whenever I need it to.
2. I never had to drop the tank or even touch the top of it! It was nice not to have to worry about dropping the tank for a draw-straw install, and I never even had to touch the top to try and unplug the wiring harness or anything. For the Fuel Boss install you do have to cut one of the lead wires that supplies power to the in-tank electric pump, but I tracked it down under the hood and cut into it there instead.
3. No potential quarter tank issues since there is no draw straw. I know some people have gotten their straws installed well enough that this isn’t a problem, but there are many more stories on forums about people that do have ¼ tank issues after installing draw straws, so it is nice not to have to worry about that.

 

I got both positive and negative feedback on doing a sump, but I’m glad I did it for the reasons above. It works great so far. I installed a shut-off valve on the sump so if anything ever did happen to the hose or if I need to shut it off for whatever reason I can just turn the valve. It also has a drain plug so if I ever do need to empty the tank and remove it for whatever reason, that will be easy too.

 

I wanted to update this thread because I never found a lot of information about whether or not a Fuel Boss could co-exist with the in-tank pump, but it definitely can. Here's a little story to prove that the electric still works as a backup: It’s common for “tank gunk” to have to flush its way out of the system following installation, since you kick up debris and stuff when you empty the tank. Shortly after I installed the Fuel Boss I got on the throttle pretty hard and my pressure went up close to 20, and when I let off the pedal something must have gotten stuck in the bypass valve and held the piston open because my pressure suddenly dropped down to 5. It stayed between 5-8psi the rest of the way home. I figured something must be stuck in the bypass, holding it open, but before I took apart the bypass valve and cleaned it out, I experimented a little. If I unplugged my electric pump my pressure would read zero when running. The bypass was allowing so much "overflow" fuel past it with the piston stuck open that my gauge was registering zero, yet when I was driving home I never saw zero, it held itself at 5 or above. I say this to prove that the Hobbs switch which tells the electric pump to engage when pressure drops is an immediate reaction. As soon as my pressure dropped the electric pump kicked in and I never even noticed in the truck, except that I was watching my fuel pressure gauge like a hawk because I was only a few miles into it after having installed everything.

 

By the way, I took the bypass valve apart (super easy), put it back together, and I’ve never seen that symptom again. It takes about 30 seconds to pop the bypass off, so even if this happened on the road it would be very easy to fix it with two crescent wrenches.

 

Hopefully this post isn't too long. I created a video with some detail on how I ran everything and how I did the wiring, if anyone is ever interested in doing one of these installs. Otherwise there are pictures and descriptions down below.

 

 

Sump on bottom of tank goes with 3/8” lines straight up to the Fuel Boss that is mounted via the front three oil pan bolts. The only thing in-line on the way to the pump is a fuel strainer that comes with the Fuel Boss install kit. I mounted this on the driver’s side of the transmission for easy access to change it out in the future.

 

 

Then from the Fuel Boss you head back to a “T” that is directly underneath the fuel filter canister.

 

From the T you go both to the back of the truck, as well as upward toward the filter. On the line that goes to the back, you install the bypass valve. This is what opens at roughly 18psi and allows excess fuel to return to the tank. I hung the bypass valve right by that fuel strainer, so they are both super easy to access.

 

Then from the bypass valve you just run to the back and return to the tank. I cut the filler neck hose and inserted the return manifold there. Again, for this I did not have to drop the tank or even have to remove the filler hose – I just cut 1” out of it right where it was.

 

Moving back toward the front, the top of the “T” as you can see in one of the above pictures heads directly north toward the fuel filter. In this section of line you install the Hobbs switch which tells the electric pump when to turn on or off. Two wires go from the Hobbs switch to one of the lead wires for the electric pump. I cut into those wires right behind my master cylinder. If your stock lift pump is still on the block you’ll have to tap into them in another place, but mine was so easy to get to:

 

Before you hook your new line to the back of the fuel filter canister, figure out how you are going to plumb in your factory supply line from the electric pump. I ran a new piece of hose from the metal hard line under the driver’s seat up directly to the filter. You have to install a check valve in this line (comes with the Fuel Boss kit) so that the Fuel Boss doesn’t back-feed down this stock supply line. In some cases you can probably re-use the factory dorman connector and tap back into the dummy “fuel block” that Dodge put in place of where the on-block pump used to be, but mine looked gross and rusty so I bypassed that whole mess and went directly to the fuel filter with both my Fuel Boss supply line as well as my factory supply line. I used a banjo to 3/8” quick connect fitting for the factory line, and then a JIC 90 for the Fuel Boss supply line.

 

And that’s it! While I had the whole fuel system apart I also installed a big line kit between the filter and the VP with a needle valve and snubber for my gauge in that run.

 

I hope this helps someone else be able to make the decision on which direction to go. Installing a FASS or AirDog would have been much simpler, but I'm glad I took the extra time up front so that I now have dual pumps in the event that something goes wrong while I'm on the road.

 

Jordan

 

[Mopar1973Man]

On 1/4/2017 at 2:48 PM, jokra said:

What if I do something like install a Fuel Boss hooked to a Beans sump...

 

Be aware that any sump kit or bottom tank feed is illegal for highway use. 

 

[notlimah]

Nice choice! 

 

I was in the same boat as you a while ago and went with a FASS 150 just because I wanted the extra filtration but I was like really close to buying the fuel boss. Seeing threads like this make me wish I did go that route sometimes but so far so good with my FASS!

[jokra]

I read over the DOT information, and came away with the conclusion that sumps are perfectly legal. Here are the details on what I found. Please correct me if I read any of this wrong, as I do really want to understand this, but I couldn’t find anything in here that tells me a sump on the bottom of a diesel tank is illegal on these trucks:

 

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2011-title49-vol5/pdf/CFR-2011-title49-vol5-sec393-67.pdf

 

Regarding 393.65:

 

The “gravity or syphon feed prohibited” absolutely does NOT apply to our trucks. This is clearly taken out of context by that one website and only relates to feeding directly into the carb or injector.

 

• (d) Gravity or syphon feed prohibited. A fuel system must not supply fuel by gravity or syphon feed directly to the carburetor or injector.

 

Furthermore, down a little ways in the fuel lines section it even references a sump and the fact that any fuel lines which are more than 2” below the tank or the sump need to be protected:

 

• (f) Fuel lines. A fuel line which is not completely enclosed in a protective housing must not extend more than 2 inches below the fuel tank or its sump. Diesel fuel crossover, return, and withdrawal lines which extend below the bottom of the tank or sump must be protected against damage from impact.

 

Regarding 393.67:

 

And then regarding anything found in 393.67 – this does not apply to most personal trucks, unless you are using it commercially. It states at the beginning of 393.67 that these rules are for commercial motor vehicles, as opposed to 393.65 which states just “motor vehicles”:

 

• (a)    Application of the rules in this section. The rules in this section apply to tanks containing or supplying fuel for the operation of commercial motor vehicles or for the operation of auxiliary equipment installed on, or used in connection with commercial motor vehicles.

 

Even if we did have to conform to 393.67, rule #4 under construction of tanks shows that a drain or bottom fitting must not extend more than ¾” lower than the tank or sump. There again it references a sump as a valid option.

 

• (4) Drains and bottom fittings. (i) Drains or other bottom fittings must not extend more than three-fourths of an inch below the lowest part of the fuel tank or sump.

 

And then #5 shows us that diesel tanks are exempt from the requirement that fittings be located above the normal fuel level, so that one doesn’t apply to us either.

 

• (5) Fuel withdrawal fittings. Except for diesel fuel tanks, the fittings through which fuel is withdrawn from a fuel tank must be located above the normal level of fuel in the tank when the tank is full.