Quadzilla Adrenaline Economy and MPG

[Me78569]

@Quadzilla Power  any ideas on why Mikes setting buttons are so small?

[Mopar1973Man]

45 minutes ago, Quadzilla Power said:

Regarding the app update to have longer tunes. The limit now should be 100,000 lines instead of 1,000 lines. Basically, you should be able to log for about 3.5 hours now instead of 4 minutes or so.

 

 

 

That should work good for data logging my long trips (approximately 4 hours one direction every other day).

 

31 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

@Quadzilla Power  any ideas on why Mikes setting buttons are so small?

 

@crf450ish is also having the same problem of tiny menu icon.

 

This menu icon being so darn small and hard to hit makes entering the menu while rolling very dangerous at any road speed. You end up getting frustrated and dropping the phone because you can no longer hold your lane while fighting the menu to capture data. There should be a second icon on the main screen that is pre-configured for exporting logs with a single click. This way you never have to fight a menu, select logging, select the export type, etc. Should be one button press. I drive 8 hours every other day for a total of 362 miles every other day or roughly 4,000 miles a month.

 

I'm not like 90% of the folks here that live in a city where they can just pull over curb side and do this. I travel lots of 2 lane highway most don't even have much of shoulder to pull over so you stuck waiting till you get to the next town 20-30 miles away.

 

 

Edited February 13, 2017 by Mopar1973Man

[Me78569]

@Mopar1973Man alright I have reverted the trigger for what gets pushed to the screen for timing, again I cannot predict accurately when a electric CC truck is truly at cruise so keep that in mind.  HOWEVER, the Quad will show Quad timing if the Quad thinks the truck is at cruise state so you will know that the screen shows that correctly.  

 

It will however havea bug on the other end of the spectrum, IE deceleration/ engine braking etc.  6 in one had half dozen in the other.  

 

I posted the update to the windows 10 thread.

 

 

The triggers for cruise state

 

1. cruise timing setting > 0

2. MPH between 81 and 40 mph

3. rpm between 2401 and 1399

4. Quadzilla load is within %10 of the reading ~3 seconds before.  ** this is what will kick out cruise timing %99 of the time.  Quad load will spike beyond that without much TPs movement.

5. MPH is stable within 3 mph for 3 seconds prior

6. boost is under the cruise boost limit, if you want to disable the limit set this variable to 0 psi and timing will stick regardless of how high boost rises.

 

If all of those are true then cruise timing is enabled.

[Mopar1973Man]

Kwel... Now I've got some specs to work from. I might work with the idea of cruise timing some more and see what I can figure out. 

[crf450ish]

7 hours ago, Quadzilla Power said:

If all you have is the circle in the middle, you need to swipe up from the bottom of the screen to get access to the gauge palette. Press and hold to select a gauge, then drag it up to the posiiton you want it in.

If you want to change the layout, swipe your finger from right to left to access the other layouts. 

Regarding the app update to have longer tunes. The limit now should be 100,000 lines instead of 1,000 lines. Basically, you should be able to log for about 3.5 hours now instead of 4 minutes or so.

 

Bingo! Thats it. I didn't think I could swipe up with my phone vertical.  JEEEZZZ lol!

[Quadzilla Power]

There was one drop to get a bigger menu icon, but I'm not sure it worked properly. Mine is still really small. 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Point of reference. I know I'm wandering all over the timing map.

 

1500 - 19

2000 - 20

2500 - 21

 

That above is stock timing. I did figure it the flip flop. That is stopped. I'll post more tonight.

[Mopar1973Man]

Ok my notes on tuning...

 

So today I ran level 0 and watched total timing off cruise. Took note roughly of the 1500, 2000, and 2500 numbers. Changed fuel load timing to 0. Change cruise timing to 6. Now my max timing mirror stock almost perfect. So now my cruise timing is roughly 2 over the stock. Cancel boost pressure is set lower at 10 to kick out of the steep timing and drop to stocking timing. I'll update my XLSX file tonight with my settings.

 

What I learned from @Me78569 about how the Quadzilla handles timing and displays timing I might get this figured out yet. Basically build the timing Maxs to mirror stock then use cruise timing only on light loads. So this is way low kick out on boost. Being Quadzilla can't tell throttle while in cruise control really weird limitation but going to figure out a way to get it yet.

 

@me78569 I've got Data log to send you to look at tonight.

 

Side note I'll be sending my OBDLink dongle for Warranty work with a bug in the Bluetooth firmware.

Edited February 14, 2017 by Mopar1973Man

[Me78569]

Fuel load timing doesn't have any sway at cruise state.

[Mopar1973Man]

Regardless of numbers I finally got close to a good spot. I made my round trip to Boise and back home for the first time and have used less than a half tank a fuel. No, I didn't stop for fuel so now I'm going to make another 1/2 trip back down on Thursday with the remaining fuel no problem. 

 

15 hours ago, Me78569 said:

Fuel load timing doesn't have any sway at cruise state.

 

Using what you told me about the timing map the amount of time in the canyon passes I remain out of cruise timing and low in the throttle input so "fuel load timing" would indeed affect the timing and being the throttle input is low it constantly retarding timing instead of advancing. That setting would be awesome if it can if was reversed. Advanced timing under low load and retarded timing under high load or deep throttle like low pressure reduct does. So, in this case, I simply shut the function off being it's retarding more than advancing. 

[Me78569]

Awesome news.  

 

 

Got ya. glad your eco tune is getting sorted.    

 

I can't reverse the setting, its needed for the perf side of things to work in that manner.  However Tyler was smart enough to tell me to turn it off if it was set to 0 haha.  

[Mopar1973Man]

Now if there was a setting that was reversed for the cruise side...

 

Hmmm... Low load, high timing... High load, low timing... 

 

But for now I'm not going to muddy the water any more than needed. After talking to you I figure I would build the performance side to mirror the stock timing map as closely as possible. The only hitch I found was the 1500 range (measuring on the throttle at 1,600 RPMs) the stock timing is 19* which is not possible with the adjustment which is a max of 18 on the 1500 RPM position. So my current setting are 18, 20, 22, 24, 26 on the max timing. Linear map. Now the cruise timing is cranked up to 7 which is actually closer to 3* over the stock map. 

 

Never having the ability to see timing and know what to do with it kind of weird to figure out how to make tunes. Now that I've traveled down the timing map as far as 12* at the lowest point I can say there is little change MPG wise down lower. I will admit that launching has a lot of power from the get go. Now with the current tune (updated on the first post) the engine clatter is louder now but it comes and goes with RPM and load. Mostly heard climbing mountain grades. 

 

This still doesn't explain the miss after long highway travels. Now that I'm cranked up it not missing at stops again. Eventually I'll be heading back over to the interstate side once the highway for the flooding is dealt with. 

 

Highway 95 Weiser, Idaho last week...

 

 

Being worried about over timing the whole time keep me pulling down the timing. Now after watching stock Level 0 for quite a distance I knew that higher timing is possible but how high? Unknown. I'm not in a racing application, strictly setting the cruise control and rolling the miles.

 

@Me78569 You said the Cruise Timing is based on 17* start correct? 

[Me78569]

Yep 17* based for cruise timing.  

 

Smarty s03 set to MPG mode  tries to reach ~20* at cruise state.

[Mopar1973Man]

20 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

Smarty s03 set to MPG mode  tries to reach ~20* at cruise state.

 

Hua?! Stock Level 0 on the Quadzilla I can reach 20* at 65 MPH no tune at all? No MPG fooler used either. Again trying to get a point of reference that I can build from. 

Edited February 15, 2017 by Mopar1973Man

[Me78569]

smarty on s03 in mpg mode tries to hold timing between 17* and 20*.  It will not allow timing to drop hard like oem timing.  

 

My truck seemed to sit in the 18* range for timing when at cruise on lvl 0.  

[Mopar1973Man]

I'll double check again... Next trip.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Mopar1973Man

[Mopar1973Man]

As of today. The only thing changed. I dropped -0.5 from my cruise timing (6.5 current). Liking the current setup on the cruise timing. It floating right around 20-21*F from 55-65 MPH. Returned home today showing 21.0 on the OBDLink for this tank. 

 

Now I did try resampling level 0 timing and got way different number each time I was checking at different speed and loads. Now I scratching my head again and trying to figure out how I got that last set of measures on level 0.

Edited February 17, 2017 by Mopar1973Man

[Me78569]

ECM timing is so dynamic I don't see how you could reproduce the same number 2x hahaha.

[Mopar1973Man]

45 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

ECM timing is so dynamic I don't see how you could reproduce the same number 2x

That's what I just learned. 

 

Man, this is tougher than hell trying to figure out what is good and bad timing wise. The thing I am realizing still the Quadzilla holds timing fairly solid to one spot. True that lower timing numbers tend to build power faster. Higher timing number are better for efficiency. The weird part is trying to find the curve that works the best. Between the max timing table and the cruise timing setting is puzzle. Like I told you @Me78569 I've been limiting my travels to highway 55 mostly 55-65 MPH travel so I can figure out this mystery or puzzle. I will admit cruise boost pressure about 10 PSI is about optimal for normal highway driving (55-65 MPH) it kicks out just about the right time during grades. 

 

So I guess I need to fix my "Max Timing Table". more or less tweak it a bit. (Exponential growth 12% starting at 16)

1500 - 16.0

2000 - 17.9

2500 - 20.0

3000 - 22.4

Max - 25.1

Edited February 17, 2017 by Mopar1973Man

[Me78569]

I need to spend some time learning @AH64ID Timing calc stuff, just haven't had time to yet.  That should help figure out where timing should be at a given rpm and match that to a good MPG for that rev.  

 

 

really all comes down to trying to get the combustion in the right spot.   as revs increase the amount of timing needed to keep timing in that sweet spot increases.  

 

 

There's a lot about this kind of stuff I don't know haha,  I wish I could sit down and chat with someone smarter than me, but doubtful that will happen.