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Mopar1973Man

Dirty Injectors? Clean them!

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Mopar1973Man    3,653
Mopar1973Man

Well gang... I finally had enough of the random misfire that I was having. So this morning I broke down and got the shop clean up enough to get my truck in. :rolleyes: So I did the typical disassembly and got the injectors out...post-2-138698166538_thumb.jpg This is the internals of a 24V injector (RV275) What I did was made a jig to hold the injector while you remove the nozzle nut. I used a allen wrench in a vise to make said jig. post-2-138698166553_thumb.jpgpost-2-138698166545_thumb.jpg Then before you can remove the nut you need to remove your copper washer. This can be done with a putty knife and a hammer just lightly tap the putty knife and it should be able to pry it up enough to using a screwdriver. post-2-13869816684_thumb.jpgpost-2-138698166832_thumb.jpg Now as I set my torque wrench for loosening and kept adding torque to the handle adjustment looking for the click and loosening of the nut. Well I found it at about 32 foot/pounds so I backed off to 30 foot/pounds and set the wrench. Loosen the nut. post-2-138698166859_thumb.jpgpost-2-138698166849_thumb.jpg Now you need a clean area too. I set up a shop towel and a old ashtray. I filled the ashtray with Coleman fuel (Naphtha). So I would open up the injector carefully and place all the parts in the solvent to soak. Now in the pic above there is a shim that goes in the bottom below the spring. This shim might be stuck inside the body don't sweat it let in soak in the Coleman fuel for about 5 minutes and pick it up and it will fall out. Now that all the parts are soaking take a old scotch bright one thats been used a bit and rather soft. dip it in the solvent and light rub the nozzle clean of soot. Yes you may rub the tip but be gentle about it. Now look at the pintle (needle) look at the tip for damage or wear... Now check it for smooth sliding action in the nozzle. If it feels rough rub the pintle gently with the scotch bright pad and it will help it out... post-2-138698166873_thumb.jpgpost-2-13869816688_thumb.jpg I was doing a mini-spray test too... Dip the nozzle in the solvent keeping the fuel hole up and holding the nozzle horizontal using a blow gun just a light burst of air will show you your spray pattern some what but also insures the nozzle tip is not plugged. Now just blow all the large parts clean and dry from the solvent. Make sure to blow the fuel passages clear. Once you happy with the clean up and every is clean now reassembly the injector exactly the way it came apart. Put your shim in the body take notice of which side was up. You'll also notice the shim has wear marks from the spring so be sure to put it back in the right way. This side down. post-2-138698166888_thumb.jpg Heck... Let me get more pics and I'll continue this write up...:thumbup2:

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LiveOak    70
LiveOak

Subscribed! Very interesting thread! :thumbup2: Can't wait to read part II. This is where an ultrasonic cleaner would really work well. We used those to clean up carbon coked turbo-shaft engine parts in the engine rebuild facility on Ft. Campbell.

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ISX    58
ISX

I was going to tear mine apart but read about getting everything aligned and it all having to be perfect and all this and figured it was no job I should be taking on. We took them apart as far as you have in class but I still figured there was something in it I would mess up. Not sure mine need a cleaning or not, would think they would have all the miles but I don't have any misfiring issues. If you can convince me that as far as you went with those doesn't have to be ten thousandths of an inch accurate, I might take all mine apart. If it's 3 thousands, well, I can hold that :lol:

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Mopar1973Man    3,653
Mopar1973Man

Continued... Well the shim has to be this side up... Take notice to the side that has the wear mark for the spring...post-2-138698166896_thumb.jpg Then place your spring the the body. post-2-138698166913_thumb.jpg Then there is a cone shaped piece that goes on top of the spring but make sure to place the hollow side up. This is for the pintle to ride in. post-2-13869816692_thumb.jpg The mid body goes on top of this take notice to the pins it will only go on one way... post-2-138698166905_thumb.jpg Then your nozzle and pintle goes on top to look like this... post-2-13869816696_thumb.jpgpost-2-138698166939_thumb.jpg The pics I did of one of my stock injectors... Yeah I did it in a hurry and they are not very clean but I'll do them next tomorrow. I'm really shocked at how it change the injector noise, performance is better, smoke is less, clatter is less, etc. But after doing this I now know without a doubt that there is no injector cleaner on the market that can clean a injector. Just soaking them in naphtha (Coleman fuel) would loosen the soot but you still have to go after it with a scotch bright pad to get the carbon off the injector. The pintle have a yellowish tinit but soaking them does nothing either... You still got to attack the pintle with a scotch bright pad too. The soul fact that you need to soak the body to get the shim out is un-real. You can tap it on the desktop and it refuses to fall out... But soak for 10-15 minutes and it falls out in your hand. So after now doing this I going to say after about 100K miles it wouldn't be a bad idea to take them apart and clean them out really good. When I do the stock set I'll take my video camera down to the shop and setup the tripod and shoot video of the assembly and the spray pattern... I know at low pressure it doesn't appear right but you know the holes are open. :thumbup2: Another tidbit... RV275 is 820 nozzle number... and strock 235 HP is a 830 nozzle number...

post-2-13869816693_thumb.jpg

post-2-138698166947_thumb.jpg

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AH64ID    623
AH64ID

Great write-up, but I wont be doing that anytime soon on my CR injectors!

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Mopar1973Man    3,653
Mopar1973Man

I found a cutaway that is about dead on with the 24V series injector... post-2-138698166973_thumb.jpg I know this isn't the Cummins injector but you get to see the spray pattern of a injector as its pop tested...

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white01    0
white01

I found a cutaway that is about dead on with the 24V series injector... [ATTACH=CONFIG]1330[/ATTACH] I know this isn't the Cummins injector but you get to see the spray pattern of a injector as its pop tested...

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jXX_rGqgGo

mike your time is very appreciated down here in KS...hay..just think at looking at this picture if there was TWO feed holes and the fuel gallery was bigger!! and then of course have your famous some switch on and floor it...think it would look like the shuttle taking off?:smart::hyper::drool:

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LiveOak    70
LiveOak

EXCELLENT video and thread! Just one minor thing. NEVER break torque with a torque wrench. If you do it enough or with a enough power, it will mess up the torque wrench. :nono: This was a pet peev of mine with crewchiefs on the flight line.

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ISX    58
ISX

EXCELLENT video and thread! Just one minor thing. NEVER break torque with a torque wrench. If you do it enough or with a enough power, it will mess up the torque wrench. :nono: This was a pet peev of mine with crewchiefs on the flight line.

I was just about to tell him that :lol: Also supposed to unscrew it all the way so the spring is relaxed. I might do this at apartment Monday. I have my whole toolbox in the living room :lol: Might take one out and see how easy it comes apart. I might have to video tape it since Mike's vids always make you look bad since he doesn't mess up or cuss or anything :lmao:

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Mopar1973Man    3,653
Mopar1973Man

I was setup from yesterday and measuring the torque value of the first six as I went along at the point of click it always broke free... Typically I don't do this but I always un-do the TQ value and normally don't use it as a breaker bar but I'm trying to be watchful of the torque numbers... So far the average click is about 30-32 ft/Lbs... I want to make sure I get them back as close as possible not sure if this has a effect on pop pressure or not... :shrug: Oh... ISX I had all day yesterday to cuss and ****** about screwing up. :tongue:

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ISX    58
ISX

Well I didn't have to mess with the vise. :tongue:http://www.mopar1973man.com//isx97/Truck%20Stuff/Ryan's%20Dodge/Under%20Hood/Injectors/Cleaning%20Internals/IMG_1374.JPG http://www.mopar1973man.com//isx97/Truck%20Stuff/Ryan's%20Dodge/Under%20Hood/Injectors/Cleaning%20Internals/IMG_1385.JPG http://www.mopar1973man.com//isx97/Truck%20Stuff/Ryan's%20Dodge/Under%20Hood/Injectors/Cleaning%20Internals/IMG_1386.JPG http://www.mopar1973man.com//isx97/Truck%20Stuff/Ryan's%20Dodge/Under%20Hood/Injectors/Cleaning%20Internals/IMG_1387.JPG Here's Assembly pics, in order, and I forgot to bang that shim at the bottom of the spring out. Put spring in. http://www.mopar1973man.com//isx97/Truck%20Stuff/Ryan's%20Dodge/Under%20Hood/Injectors/Cleaning%20Internals/IMG_1388.JPG Put whatever that is in. http://www.mopar1973man.com//isx97/Truck%20Stuff/Ryan's%20Dodge/Under%20Hood/Injectors/Cleaning%20Internals/IMG_1389.JPG Put nozzle in. http://www.mopar1973man.com//isx97/Truck%20Stuff/Ryan's%20Dodge/Under%20Hood/Injectors/Cleaning%20Internals/IMG_1392.JPG Put pintle needle in. http://www.mopar1973man.com//isx97/Truck%20Stuff/Ryan's%20Dodge/Under%20Hood/Injectors/Cleaning%20Internals/IMG_1393.JPG Showing both halves, about to be screwed together. http://www.mopar1973man.com//isx97/Truck%20Stuff/Ryan's%20Dodge/Under%20Hood/Injectors/Cleaning%20Internals/IMG_1394.JPG Complete injector. http://www.mopar1973man.com//isx97/Truck%20Stuff/Ryan's%20Dodge/Under%20Hood/Injectors/Cleaning%20Internals/IMG_1395.JPG I found some "Extreme Pressure" grease thats supposed to stand up to 300F constant and keep it from rusting and getting water in it and all that crap so I rubbed the whole injector down with that and stuck it back in. Yes, I only did one for now. Might get the rest some other day. All in all, I thought it was fun. Think I went a little overboard with the scotch bright. It started though so I guess I didn't screw up too bad.

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Mopar1973Man    3,653
Mopar1973Man

Cool... I really shocked to see the 12V injector is very close in design to the 24V other than body and nozzle differences they appear to have the very same guts as a 24V injector... Wow! :thumbup2: Now I guess I get to build a page for 12V and 24V injector cleaning... And you get to help out ISX... :lmao: See what happens when you try to best me... :lmao2:

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ISX    58
ISX

Well I started making a post on how to do it but was going back and forth between my pics and yours and found out I missed that spring shim and clicked away. The only thing different that I can see is the top of them. Your copper washer is also very thick, mines very thin. I don't know if 1st gen injectors are exactly the same as mine, would think they would be. Maybe you should throw a link to the same page in both the 24v and 12v (1st and 2nd gen) sections on the static pages. Then we can share pics and make one giant article. Just need a few pics showing the different top parts of the injector. If you look in that FTP thing and go to Truck Stuff/Ryan's Dodge/Under Hood/Injectors/Cleaning Internals/ and you can see all the pics I got.I made sure to get pics of the black thing on top of the spring and that spacer thing between the nozzle and other half of injector because they go on a certain subtle way. I could make an article using both our pics and you can kick it around, or however you want to do it :shrug:

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JOHNFAK    85
JOHNFAK

MikePm me your address Need the following Injectors CleanedValves fixed4x4 vacuumCAD fixedleaky rear drifeshaft sealPaint and Polish truckFront bumper installedand about 10 other things Heck - just gonna ship you my truck - sure you have enough room - pick it up in 3 months :) *joke* thanks for the great writeups !! :thumbup2:

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Mopar1973Man    3,653
Mopar1973Man

Mike Pm me your address Need the following Injectors Cleaned Valves fixed 4x4 vacuumCAD fixed leaky rear drifeshaft seal Paint and Polish truck Front bumper installed and about 10 other things Heck - just gonna ship you my truck - sure you have enough room - pick it up in 3 months :) *joke* thanks for the great writeups !! :thumbup2:

Seriously... Drive down I'll whip through most of it... Of course you get to do most of the work while I hold my beer in one hand and a video camera in the other telling you what to do... :tongue::lmao2:

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JOHNFAK    85
JOHNFAK

HaI'd be worried my truck wouldn;t make it with all the beer or other 'gifts' I'd have to load in the back :)

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ISX    58
ISX

So I popped out another one because I found something else to clean it that wouldn't scar it as bad. Here is the scotch bright way (from first injector) and then todays injector using cameo aluminum and stainless steel cleaner. What's interesting is I spent 10 min to get that much accomplished with the cameo, that's the only thing I hated about the scotch brite, it was like taking a grinder to them. I wanted something that would do it easily so I could stop before going too far. The cameo actually got the majority off within a minute but the tip needed a lot of TLC to get it all cleaned up. Scotch Brite http://www.mopar1973man.com//isx97/Truck%20Stuff/Ryan's%20Dodge/Under%20Hood/Injectors/Cleaning%20Internals/A.JPG Cameo http://www.mopar1973man.com//isx97/Truck%20Stuff/Ryan's%20Dodge/Under%20Hood/Injectors/Cleaning%20Internals/B.JPG Scotch Brite http://www.mopar1973man.com//isx97/Truck%20Stuff/Ryan's%20Dodge/Under%20Hood/Injectors/Cleaning%20Internals/A2.JPG Cameo http://www.mopar1973man.com//isx97/Truck%20Stuff/Ryan's%20Dodge/Under%20Hood/Injectors/Cleaning%20Internals/B2.JPG

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Mopar1973Man    3,653
Mopar1973Man

Hence... Why I got a USED scotch bright pad one that was really soft and won't scar the injector... I know what you mean about a new pad it will eat the metal right up and scar it quick... As for the Cameo could you post a link to the product I've never heard of it...:shrug:

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ISX    58
ISX

Yeah we all don't have worn out scotch brite pads laying around :lol: You can get this at walmart or anywhere, it cleans sinks or aluminum or anything. It's actually the only thing that will remove any and all hard water stains, no matter how much they build up or how long they have been there. It is just powder, and you get it all wet and it turns into kind of a paste, that paste is what you clean everything with. Maybe I will make a demonstration video to show how neat it is, but here is a pic first. http://www.mopar1973man.com//isx97/Truck%20Stuff/Ryan's%20Dodge/Under%20Hood/Injectors/Cleaning%20Internals/IMG_1401.JPG

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white01    0
white01

Seriously... Drive down I'll whip through most of it... Of course you get to do most of the work while I hold my beer in one hand and a video camera in the other telling you what to do... :tongue::lmao2:

that's awesome!!!!!!!!!!1:tongue::tease::hyper::lmao2::lmao::lol::thumb1::thumbup2:

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Mopar1973Man    3,653
Mopar1973Man

Yeah we all don't have worn out scotch brite pads laying around :lol: You can get this at walmart or anywhere, it cleans sinks or aluminum or anything. It's actually the only thing that will remove any and all hard water stains, no matter how much they build up or how long they have been there. It is just powder, and you get it all wet and it turns into kind of a paste, that paste is what you clean everything with. Maybe I will make a demonstration video to show how neat it is, but here is a pic first. http://www.mopar1973man.com//isx97/Truck%20Stuff/Ryan's%20Dodge/Under%20Hood/Injectors/Cleaning%20Internals/IMG_1401.JPG

Thanks... Next time I head towards a big city I'll look to pic some up...

that's awesome!!!!!!!!!!1:tongue::tease::hyper::lmao2::lmao::lol::thumb1::thumbup2:

Try me... Drag your truck down here and I'll show you the tool box... I'll go find a beer and comfy chair and then grab my little video camera... :lmao2:

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JOHNFAK    85
JOHNFAK

haha yeah - I'm pretty sure Mike would enjoy putting a video of me loosening the head studs thinking they were the injectors or disconnecting the ECM thinking it was the MAP sensor or something. Then scratching my head and saying .... hmmm .... it shoulda worked right ? :tease:

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