No Start

[015point9]

Didnt read entire post real closely but what you describe is what my fass did.  I would lookup.   https://fassride.com/tech-support/technical-guide-troubleshooting/

 

The bucket test that mine failed, was fraustraighting. 

[Mopar1973Man]

What is the fuel pressure doing during cranking? If you want the video the first cranking event you'll see a air bubble come and the pressure falls off and I stopped the video. Then the second try you'll see it was a good cranking run with it just bouncing. 

 

 

[rjbest333@gmail.com]

I like Lady Gaga music!

 

Yeah when I crank it jumps up to 15-16 and is just constant.

 

I hooked up a clear fuel line, as suggested by this post https://www.bluechipdiesel.com/runningtests

 

Definitely no air bubbles before the IP

 

I did no start test #2   Power at pin 7, and no power at pin 5 as it should be.

 

Next test is No start #3   I don't understand where to jump start it to exactly... Pin 7's orientation I don't follow from the article.  And the ground goes where?  Pin 6 ? 

 

I have a power wire made up as suggested in the article with a 10 amp inline fuse.

[Dieselfuture]

Why is your fuel yellow, is it straight biodiesel. I could have swore the last time I looked at my fuel it was more greenish color, unless it's all that  two-stroke oil 

[rjbest333@gmail.com]

Running a good bit of fleetgaurd cleaner, which is a dark amber color, and half a bottle of PM clear diesel with only 10 gallons of diesel in the tank.

 

I don't understand the orientation of the pins on how to "how-wire" the back of the VP44   Anyone have pics of this or a second explanation?  Thanks for all the help guys.

[dripley]

When you get up and running I would ditch all of these adddatives. They dry fuel out worse than it already is. Your VP will thank you. The only lube the VP gets is from the fuel so some 2 stroke in there will help it lead a longer life. 

Here is some info.

 

[rjbest333@gmail.com]

Called Bluechip diesel, and then tried the hotwire test.  I could hear something in the pump click on when connecting the hot wire to pin seven.  Ground was to pin 6. So i feel I had a good connection.   Still no start.  .

 

Sounds like its the VP44 which is with in reason I think. 140k on the truck and she was  from Florida which has high temperatures in summer and I bought the truck from an older gentleman who use it to tow a camper.  It was only putting out 8 PSI at idle and 5 psi going down the road, without a camper behind the truck before I put a FASS in back in may of this year.  So its tough to say what really has occurred.  

 

She is still shooting out fuel at the injectors with good pressure it seems though.  I've read something on CAN bus bypass in the VP44...  Any last ideas on that?

[dripley]

3 hours ago, rjbest333@gmail.com said:

Called Bluechip diesel, and then tried the hotwire test.  I could hear something in the pump click on when connecting the hot wire to pin seven.  Ground was to pin 6. So i feel I had a good connection.   Still no start.  .

I believe that would condem the VP

Quote

 

Sounds like its the VP44 which is with in reason I think. 140k on the truck and she was  from Florida which has high temperatures in summer and I bought the truck from an older gentleman who use it to tow a camper.  It was only putting out 8 PSI at idle and 5 psi going down the road, without a camper behind the truck before I put a FASS in back in may of this year.  So its tough to say what really has occurred.  

Another nail in the coffin.

Quote

 

She is still shooting out fuel at the injectors with good pressure it seems though.  I've read something on CAN bus bypass in the VP44...  Any last ideas on that?

Just remeber it takes something over 4000 psi to pop the injector, depending on there condition.

Edited October 11, 2018 by dripley

[rjbest333@gmail.com]

Hey guys I have a line on a RE MANUFACTURED VP44 with roughly 20,000 miles on it from a wrecked truck for 500 bucks.  Reputable source, friend of the family.

 

Any issues with putting a 1999 vp44 on a 2001 ?

 

 

[Dieselfuture]

2 hours ago, rjbest333@gmail.com said:

Hey guys I have a line on a RE MANUFACTURED VP44 with roughly 20,000 miles on it from a wrecked truck for 500 bucks.  Reputable source, friend of the family.

 

Any issues with putting a 1999 vp44 on a 2001 ?

 

 

I've heard people using different pumps with no issues. From what I understand HO can only be used on HO, and SO can be used on both, or something like that. Because of compression maybe, but I don't see why ether one can't be used.

[Mopar1973Man]

Remember even a good injection pump takes quite a bit to get started. The other part is you need +4,500 PSI from the injection lines to make it even run. If the fuel is not coming out with force then your not pumping.

 

Like when I did my head gasket. The truck was down for over a week with everything disconnected. Now reassemble everything and prime the low pressure. I cranked on it till I wiped out the batteries. Since I only got a 2A battery charger I had to wait 24 hours for a good charge to try again. So 24 hours later... I crack 1, 3, and 4 again. Go fuel spraying from those. Close those 3 back up. Then got it started on those 3 barely. I was still holding the starter and the 3 cylinder popping barely. Took a good bit until the rest were capable of pushing the air out. 

 

I've seen times where I could not get it to even start at all. Ended up disconnecting the grid heater and have a friend shoot a very tiny blast of starting fluid at the turbo to help get the engine to bust over. I knew the VP44 was good and there was fuel but just could get it to pop or ignite. If you use starting fluid you want to make sure the grid heaters are disabled. Then instruct who is going to shot the starting fluid only a very tiny blast of it.

 

WARNING! - DO NOT overuse starting fluid it will break piston ring and do cylinder damage!

 

In all cases, I've got it started again. You have to remember you RPM speed to get enough compression to ignite the fuel. Then you need enough pressure at the injector to make it spray the fuel (+4,500 PSI). If your missing one or both you not going to start that engine. 

 

NOTE - If you have error codes for the injection pump already you already have a smoking gun pointing to a VP44 failure. All the Blue Chip test is for to verify the ECM is not the cause. The hot wire test makes the VP44 a standalone pump and should start and just idle. 

[rjbest333@gmail.com]

Thank you for that detailed post Michael.

 

The truck would not start back up hot, until it cooled down for about 3 weeks.  Then i walked out one day and simply would not start at all.  Bluechip diesel said that not starting back up when hot is indicative of mechanical pump wear, not an electronic issue.

 

The truck has thrown no codes except for that coolant temp sensor, which was replaced and the truck ran fine afterwards.

 

The bluechip no start tests state at the end: 

 

" IF YOU HAVE FUEL, POWER AND GROUND, PROVEN BY THE ABOVE TESTS AND STILL HAVE NO START AFTER TEST 3, YOU ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY NEED AN INJECTION PUMP!"

My truck does have fuel, power, and ground and it will not start.  Could it be anything other than the VP44 being it started one day, and not the next ?    

 

 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

If you can't get it started using the BC hot wire method the VP44 is done. 

 

Just wanted to be clear about what it takes to start sometimes being that some people might be giving up too easy and buying another VP44 and really didn't need it. 

[rjbest333@gmail.com]

Gotcha!  Thank you!  I will keep you all posted.  The used REMAN vp44 ships out on Wednesday.  I'll have everything torn down and ready to go.  I've done and IP on an old 7.3 international, and from the videos I've seen online the VP44 looks like an easier swap!  Any particular "how to" video does anyone like best? 

[Mopar1973Man]

I've got a full write up on it...

 

[dripley]

The one thing I reccomend is snugging your cross over tubes/fuel lines into the injector before torquing the hold down on the injector. 

[Mopar1973Man]

1 hour ago, dripley said:

The one thing I reccomend is snugging your cross over tubes/fuel lines into the injector before torquing the hold down on the injector. 

 

[rjbest333@gmail.com]

So snug these guys down first, before the 19mm hold down on the injector?   Might I ask why?

[Mopar1973Man]

No. The nut at the head. The crossover tube inside. 

 

Basically, if the injectors have been installed you want the cross over tube to mate with the injector first before locking down the injector placements. 

 

 

You what to tight the crossover tube first to push the crossover tube into the injector causing the injector to self-center and mate with the crossover tube for a tight seal. Now you can lock the injector down with the torque on the injector hold downs. 

 

Now if you reverse this and tight the hold downs first the crossover tubes will not seal at the injector body and you'll have a high-pressure leak inside the return rail of the head. 

[rjbest333@gmail.com]

I don't follow.  I'm replacing the VP44, not the injectors.