Front axle centering.

[Marcus2000monster]

Im still not entirely familier with all  the steering components can anyone list the parts needed minus the ball joints and axle joints? Everything else is getting brand new replacements. (So much for a Qaud) 

1 minute ago, dripley said:

Unless your track bar is faulty how is the axle moving? Faulty as in one of the joints failed to allow movement. I know when my last one failed you could turn the sreering wheel back and forth and watch over the hood and see the body move back and forth about 2" before the wheels turned.

That is my question man. Ill have one of the guys here at the shop dry park the truck for me today. 

[dripley]

56 minutes ago, Marcus2000monster said:

That is my question man. Ill have one of the guys here at the shop dry park the truck for me today.

You can do that simple test just sitting in the truck, no help needed. Just look out over the hood and turn the wheel a little each way. If the track bar is bad you can see the hood move in relationship to the ground or anything in front of you. I noticed mine in my gravel driveway at home.

 The track is the only part on the front end that holds the axle from moving.

Edited December 19, 2018 by dripley

[Marcus2000monster]

1 minute ago, dripley said:

You can do that simple test just sitting in the truck, no help needed. Just look out over the hood and turn the wheel a little each way. If the track bar is bad you can see the hood move in relationship to the ground or anything in front of you. I noticed mine in my gravel driveway at home.

 The track is the only part on the front end that holds the axle from moving.

In this case the track bar absolutly has to be bad. When i left work last nigh they were leaning as they are in the pics above and when i got home they were almost straight up and down.  If the bar were to short it would lean but it wouldnt go back and forth right?

[dripley]

2 minutes ago, Marcus2000monster said:

In this case the track bar absolutly has to be bad. When i left work last nigh they were leaning as they are in the pics above and when i got home they were almost straight up and down.  If the bar were to short it would lean but it wouldnt go back and forth right?

If it were to short it would just sit to one side and stay there. Yours maybe to short, that I dont know. But if the track joints are good and not moving, something else is. Maybe the sway bar, though I am not sure how it would move unless it is loose at the frame??

[Marcus2000monster]

28 minutes ago, dripley said:

If it were to short it would just sit to one side and stay there. Yours maybe to short, that I dont know. But if the track joints are good and not moving, something else is. Maybe the sway bar, though I am not sure how it would move unless it is loose at the frame??

Ill take a look

[dave110]

Even if the rubber bushing fell out you would not have 1.5" of movement and there would be one heck of a clunk, clank, bang, slam going down the road. I still think the sway bar is moving. Ever check that out? It's hard to tell from pictures but your springs are straight while the sway links are tilted way off center.

Edited December 19, 2018 by dave110

[Tractorman]

3 hours ago, Marcus2000monster said:

In this case the track bar absolutly has to be bad. When i left work last nigh they were leaning as they are in the pics above and when i got home they were almost straight up and down.  If the bar were to short it would lean but it wouldnt go back and forth right?

 

If suspension components are in good condition and the track bar is too short:

 

  *  The axle will be pulled toward the driver's side of the vehicle and remain there.

  *  The bottom of the sway bar links will follow the axle making it appear that the top of the links are leaning toward the passenger side of the vehicle.  This relationship will not change after you have driven and parked the truck.

 

For clarification, the track bar has only one purpose.  It controls only side to side movement between the front axle and the chassis / cab, but still allows for up and down movement of the axle.

 

So, if the sway bar links are sometimes  tilted, but the axle is remains centered all the time then  the track bar is not the problem.  It could be as Dave110 suggests, that the sway bar is sliding in the bushings that mount it to the frame making it appear that the axle is moving..

 

It is easy to get off track when diagnosing suspension problems.  At this point I would start from scratch and document your observations in detail.    For example, in your first post you mention that the axle has shifted to the driver's side 1 1/2 inches and the sway bar links are tilted (this is very significant).  Later you mention that the sway bar links are sometimes tilted and are sometimes straight, but you don't mention anything about the axle shifting to the driver's side or whether the axle is centering when the sway bar links are straight.

 

- John

 

Edited December 19, 2018 by Tractorman

[Mopar1973Man]

49 minutes ago, Tractorman said:

For clarification, the track bar has only one purpose.  It controls only side to side movement between the front axle and the chassis / cab, but still allows for up and down movement of the axle.

 

Very True. If the wrong bar was installed that is too short then the axle will pull to the driver side. The only other cause is someone installed a leveling kit. This will push the axle downwards away from the frame at the same time pull on the trackbar to the driver side. 

 

I'm sad to admit I watch my boss install a lift kit on a Ford and we pulled the track bar loose to get the spring low enough to install the spacers. When we tried to install the track bar again it was too short and the axle had to be pulled to the driver side with a come-a-long to get the axle bolt in. I told my boss that was right... But still sent the truck home. 

[Marcus2000monster]

 Ok guys so I’m guessing it is the sway bar sliding . I haven’t had a chance to better diagnose it yet. 

Also I can hear a clunk every time I turn sharp and return to center. 

[Marcus2000monster]

Didn’t have a chance to check it out today. Im planning to rebuild the entire front end less the ball joints and axle joints so I may just wait to check it all out until then which hopefully will be by the 1st. 

[snowshoveler]

Pretty easy to check this out.

Get your handy dandy 4 foot level and put it on the side of each tire, verticle.

You can easily see if the axle is is sideways by the relationship to the fender.

Regards Chris

 

[Marcus2000monster]

I have not had a chance to look closer at his issue I’m problably just going to purchase an adjustable track bar when I rebuild the front end. 

[dripley]

Do yourself a favor and look under the front end and if the sway bar links are leaning over check and see if the sway bar has shifted that way in the mounts. Hate to see you spend all that money just to have same problem. Check it all while you are under there. It only takes a few minutes with someone sawing on the wheel to see what is loose.

[Marcus2000monster]

So the track bar bolt wasn’t tight enough and they’re was play in the bushing. I cranked it as tight as possible but it still steers like crap. I also found out that the tie rod has been contacting the diff cover when turning left which I can only assume is becuase if the track bar being loose. That was the only loose part we found sonhow do I get that thing right in theyre?

[Mopar1973Man]

18 minutes ago, Marcus2000monster said:

So the track bar bolt wasn’t tight enough and they’re was play in the bushing.

 

Might check again. I've seen the track bar bushing side fail and the bar is banging back and forth inside the bushing. 

 

19 minutes ago, Marcus2000monster said:

I cranked it as tight as possible but it still steers like crap.

 

Which would explain this because the bolt might be tight but the rubber bushing tore out and track bar is banging back and forth. That only happened to me once with a cheap Autozone track bar.
 

[dripley]

If all the parts are tight under there, I would suspect pay in the steering box. Mine has some play that causes  wander. Heck mine had steering wander right of the lot. I do believe a while back you said you had adjusted yours and it was no help. How far did you turn the adjusting screw in? I need to give mine another turn. going to run out of turns one day. My tie rod contacts the diff a little and I dont think that is unusual from what I have read here.

 Were the sway bar links straight up and down?

 I dont quite understand the last question.

 

Edited December 22, 2018 by dripley

[Mopar1973Man]

If you opt for adjusting the box. Keep something in mind there is a fast way to do this adjustment but it a bit tricky too. 

 

You can run the set screw all the way to the bottom as tight as you can go. This pushes the output shaft and gear downward into the rack. This makes the gear super tight and can break stuff. Now you have to set some slack back to the gears. Lifting on the pitman and output shaft now loosen the sector adjustment at least 1.5 to 2.0 full turns. Lock it down. The trick is if you don't help the output shaft back up as your turning the screw it will just come to a stop. you might have to use a rubber mallet to help it back up. This method is best when the pitman arm is not attached to the output shaft.

 

The long way is to keep turning a 1/8 to 1/4 turn and checking over and over. This will take a considerable amount of time going back and forth. 

[Marcus2000monster]

48 minutes ago, dripley said:

If all the parts are tight under there, I would suspect pay in the steering box. Mine has some play that causes  wander. Heck mine had steering wander right of the lot. I do believe a while back you said you had adjusted yours and it was no help. How far did you turn the adjusting screw in? I need to give mine another turn. going to run out of turns one day. My tie rod contacts the diff a little and I dont think that is unusual from what I have read here.

 Were the sway bar links straight up and down?

 I dont quite understand the last question.

 

Brand new Napa box but Iv noticed a lotnogmaybjn the input shaft. The sway bar links just sway side to side with the turn of the wheels when inspecting the stuff. 

[dripley]

I have moved on to a 1/2 turn the last time I did it. Not sure how much I have left. I think a new box will be in my future sooner rather that later. First the HG and some other straightening out under the hood. 

13 minutes ago, Marcus2000monster said:

Brand new Napa box but Iv noticed a lotnogmaybjn the input shaft. The sway bar links just sway side to side with the turn of the wheels when inspecting the stuff. 

then something, the track bar, is still loose. It is the only thing that ties the axle to the frame rigidly. The sway bar is attached to the frame and the links are attached to the axle. 

[Dieselfuture]

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

The long way is to keep turning a 1/8 to 1/4 turn and checking over and over. This will take a considerable amount of time going back and forth. 

Last time I spoke with Ryan at blue top he told me if it needs adjusted just get a new one, because by adjusting the top screw only makes it feel better and doesn't fix the problem and only will get worse. I still adjusted mine about 3/4 in, it did help. Next time I'll get a new box from him.