New NV 4500 with South Bend DD, full package with 1-3/8th input. ( 4th gear vibration on deceleration) trouble

[Scottyv]

Ill probably have to post some very bad reviews. I'll be talking to a few folks at South Bend, and calling the installer. But taking it back to "Casper Wyoming" is not and option. I've got 1 year or 12k to get it sorted out that the warranty.

 

If I have to pay to get it right I'll have to file a small claims against the parties, and see what the judge thinks.

But for now I'll drive it like it is.

Surprisingly Scott at Midwest said they would want about $800 to take it out and see if its the clutch.

(I'm not sure why when the install charge less then that to put in the trans.)

but I'll probably have to do it my self and than,  get the parts swapped out for free. Let a job go to others who don't really have a good sense of quality,  and it'll get mucked up every-time. The word professional is just not really complete with out integrity. And taking responsibility for your job and any re-work is what that integrity stands for

 

I'm just \ unimpressed so far, seems guys build up a business and then  forget all the good people who got them where they are and then just let people down.

 

Edited October 5, 2019 by Scottyv

[98whitelightnin]

I feel the same way and this is the reason I do everything on my truck myself, but I just didnt have it in me or my back to tackle this job alone. Maybe we should both head to Idaho and assist Mike in doing the jobs correctly.

[Scottyv]

4 minutes ago, 98whitelightnin said:

Close to two months. The SBDD  (south bend dual disk clutch) organic doesn't fully disengage and the truck lurches when im at a stop and trying to get it into gear. Hard shifting and hard on synchronous

Yup I heard these clutches are a little hit and miss. , If I cant get it fixed I will launch a bad review campaign and get my experiences out there. it already cost me on week with out my work truck and to jobs rescheduled.

 I have been reasonable and fair, and paid my bill in full have been promised a good warranty and a quality job.

( I'm fairly good at visits to  all the important places to post reviews.)

I can also create my own web page just to tell my story with pictures of the entire process and parts.

 

[98whitelightnin]

The installers had the truck for a week a few weeks ago and instead of dropping the trans and seeing what the problem was, they put two new sets of hydro's in it. I followed sb hydro testing procedure and ruled out hydro issues before I too it back to them. Now im playing the waiting game. This was the best shifting nv4500 I'd ever driven before this clutch went in.

Edited October 5, 2019 by 98whitelightnin

[Scottyv]

Yep, I was stuck at the mercy of who was able to get it done and get me and my family back to Minnesota. "Thomas Crawford Auto" repair in Casper Wyoming, Is who did the work, But Landon at south bend , and Tim, Bud, and Scott at Midwest  are the product warrentors, So I'v got three entities to work with. Thomas would definitely have it back in his lot if it was close. However I would think between the three of them they would coordinate a fix. I'll have to see if I can get them to do that, Next. 

I will say that no one has been rude or obnoxious. But I just have yet to see a good solution here. really disappointing so far. I'll stay positive for now.

If it breaks then I guess they have a repair anyways. 

11 minutes ago, 98whitelightnin said:

The installers had the truck for a week a few weeks ago and instead of dropping the trans and seeing what the problem was, they put two new sets of hydro's in it. I followed sb hydro testing procedure and ruled out hydro issues before I too it back to them. Now im playing the waiting game

Who did the clutch install, on yours?

[98whitelightnin]

Standard transmission and gear on ft worth Tx. Really a good group up there and they seem to want to help me but havent got it fixed yet. I called sb a few weeks ago and left a message but never received a return call.

[Scottyv]

1 minute ago, 98whitelightnin said:

Standard transmission and gear on ft worth Tx. Really a good group up there and they seem to want to help me but haven't got it fixed yet. I called sb a few weeks ago and left a message but never received a return call.

Hmm You can call and ask for Landon at SB, he was who I spoke with, I've also read several thread where guys mentioned a Peter. But That's where I'm headed next, as far as who to call.

 

I guess I'll be able to have the transmission and drive line kinda ruled out. So I'm thinking that SB will have to think out what they can do, Probably I'll work on them setting up a shop they use here to take it out. If it turns out to be a bad install I'll be surprised. But then it'll go on Thomas Crawford's dime. If it's a bad clutch then South Bend's dime. Midwest has all but promised its not their transmission, that causing the issue. (But It still could be that someone did't shim the input shaft or a bad internal part.)

Just have to keep pursuing it. Other wise I'll have no confidence in it and be stuck on some High desert road again.

 

your sound like the fork was put in wrong or the through-out bearing is not doing its job. I think mine is the pilot bearing?

Definitely make-them-fix-it , and if you give them opportunity to do it and they wont, then it's time for Court. Just keep records on your progress and writ it down. the judge wont want to read a lot.  So, if you bullet point it and then give the details for back records he'll be prone to side with you and get you some justice.

[Mopar1973Man]

Majority of time its the installer fault. 

 

Like I've installed over 4 clutches in the last month. Every single time I install a clutch I get the transmission to full mate before ever tightening the bolts. I use slide pins for lining up and this makes it perfect. Just done a Chevy/GMC 350 yesterday and it worked out just perfect. Put the pins in the bellhousing slid the transmission right up to the bellhousing in a single motion. If your pulling the transmission in with the bolts you now for sure messing up the installation. Most likely have a misaligned input shaft and forcing it to line up this is bad. 

 

Even when I did the clutch and transmission install on my truck on the floor. Same thing line it up and slide it all the way home. by hand BEFORE putting any bolts in the housing. 

 

NEVER PULL THE TRANSMISSION IN WITH THE BOLTS!

 

SB Trick by Peter: If the clutch refuses to allow the transmission to seat. Install the slave cylinder. Have a second person to press the pedal down will the other now pushing. The clutch disc will come lose in the flywheel allowing the input shaft to align the disc freely. 

 

Edited October 5, 2019 by Mopar1973Man

[98whitelightnin]

I may have figured out the issue with my truck not wanting to shift. SB has a hydraulic testing procedure that states to remove the slave cylinder and put a steering wheel puller in its place. Tighten puller down as far as you can with fingers and then tighten another 7/8” with ratchet.  I jack the rear end off the ground and do this and the tires spin while in gear, as do they with the slave installed and pushing the clutch pedal to the floor. Go in another 3/8 of an inch for a total of 1 1/4” deep, and the tires do not spin. I get a small bump of an inch or so when initially going into gear but that’s it. To remedy this I ordered an adjustable slave rod but Ryan at SB says the extra length of that rod will just cause the slave to push back in on itself and not actually allow for more slave rod travel, this would have been nice to know before ordering but getting anyone to answer the phone has been tough lately. He gave me a dorman part number CS360047, which is a metal slave for a mid 90’s Jeep Wrangler. He said that the rod for that slave is actually shorter than their slave but it it’s got a longer stroke and will push it out to the 1 1/4” that I need.  I’ve ordered that and it along with the adjustable rod will be here tomorrow. Hopefully I can finally get this thing shifting as it should, I’m tired of being under it daily trying new remedy’s that don’t work.

Edited October 9, 2019 by 98whitelightnin

[Mopar1973Man]

??? Wow...

 

Maybe it was a good think I switch from South Bend to Valair. Nothing special required for the Valair Dual Disc I installed. Still using NAPA master / slave cylinder. 

[98whitelightnin]

SB said they have had to use that jeep slave on a few of their triple disk clutches but that i shouldnt have to on a dd. I got the feeling that ive been blown off and they want nothing to do with me or helping me at this point. I had every intention of going with valair again but was told that sb was better by a friend that installed and ran both.

[cuda]

Mine is just using the stock mopar slave and master, mine where almost new so I used them. weird

[Scottyv]

1 hour ago, 98whitelightnin said:

SB said they have had to use that jeep slave on a few of their triple disk clutches but that i shouldnt have to on a dd. I got the feeling that ive been blown off and they want nothing to do with me or helping me at this point. I had every intention of going with valair again but was told that sb was better by a friend that installed and ran both.

Man that sounds so frustrating. I was told by Landon at SB  once the slave is out you should have no more then 7/8" from the housing edge to the fork. But  it is kinda hard to be exact. Im gonna do this test just because the tabs didn't break of the white retainer  ... after the initial install by the Tech.  But as I said before Im thinking its the Pilot bearing because of the wobbly vibrations on the shift when decelerating in fourth gear from around 40mph to 25 mph.  How-ever wouldn't it vibrate in all gears and not just fourth? 

Also , If this is what it is. I wondering if the inspection hole on the back of the bell housing passenger side, might be a way I could get a look at it. But i'm not sure. Probably I'll have to pay to have it dropped, and them take a look. 

Edited October 9, 2019 by Scottyv

[Mopar1973Man]

13 hours ago, Scottyv said:

Im gonna do this test just because the tabs didn't break of the white retainer 

 

One of the feel reason I hate hydro kit that are pre-bled. Everyone assumes that the hydro's are ready to go out of the package. I would rebleed the system and start over. The hydro's will pull the holder strap with one pedal press. If there is air in the system it will NOT move and the white holding tabs will hold the rod. I've seen this a few times. Just best to remove the entire hydro system again and rebleed as I got the article.

 

 

Bleed part is towards the bottom of the article.

[Scottyv]

4 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

One of the feel reason I hate hydro kit that are pre-bled. Everyone assumes that the hydro's are ready to go out of the package. I would rebleed the system and start over. The hydro's will pull the holder strap with one pedal press. If there is air in the system it will NOT move and the white holding tabs will hold the rod. I've seen this a few times. Just best to remove the entire hydro system again and rebleed as I got the article.

 

 

Bleed part is towards the bottom of the article.

 

I would agree with the bleeding of the preblead units based on my same experience. Could it be done buy just dropping the slave and leaving the master in place?

seem that would work.

The wobble vibration in fourth gear seems to be a different issue. Seems the shifter socket is engage directly into the fourth gear shaft. this make me think its the pilot bearing. Any chance anu scope could be placed into the inspection hole and this could be seen?

 

 

[Royal Squire]

Don’t think so as pilot bearing is on front side of clutch disc however someone else here likely knows better than I 

[Scottyv]

On 10/10/2019 at 12:28 PM, Royal Squire said:

Don’t think so as pilot bearing is on front side of clutch disc however someone else here likely knows better than I 

 

Humm thats what I thought.No real gap there to peek in and see. Thinking the first clutch plate had room but then why would it?

Yup I hate to think I have to drop it just to find out . But ...

Edited October 21, 2019 by Scottyv

[98whitelightnin]

This new slave has a bleeder, like a brake caliper. Do I need to remove the entire setup from the truck to bleed it of do yall think I can get all the air out with it still on the truck?

Would anyone with an nv4500 and dd clutch be willing to do me and favor? Jack the rear end of your truck off the ground and with the truck idling, hold the clutch pedal all the way to the floor, go through the gears and tell me if the tires spin at all. Do they spin when you initially go into gear? Do they spin the entire time its in gear? Do they stay completely still?

[98whitelightnin]

Got the new slave installed and it shifts better. Going into 1 or 2 from a stop is alot easier now and with the rear tires off the ground and the clutch pedal held to the floor, the tires barely move. The pedal is harder to press now and the clutch engages at the very top of the pedal. If I didnt get it bled good enough, would it make the pedal harder to push? I feel like i bled it real good but im paranoid since this is y first one

[Scottyv]

OK, an up date:

 

Had it in to the Guys at Midwest, like i said, and they did not drop it and see what was up. with in a week and about 200 mile its now shuttering in 3rd gear on deceleration.  also when grabbing onto the shifter in prep to shift from third, it will come out of gear upon deceleration, before engaging the clutch ( at all speeds and rpm's, for the third gear) It just pops right out with no engagement of the clutch. I know you can time the rpm's and deceleration to shift with out engaging the clutch but this will do it with no effort, you only have to let up on the accelerator.

I called Thomas Crawford in WY, and he called Scott at Midwest Trans. (Both are nice guys, so I'm not complaining) Its just no fun to re-do work for anyone.

Well, I got a call from Scott at Midwest and he agree to take out the trans in a few weeks, when his shop slows down. I'm good with that, as I have customers to take care of, and i need the truck to do that. 

I'll let you know what comes next. (Phantom, Clutch or Transmission.) 

 

Edited October 22, 2019 by Scottyv