Good tow turbo setup for near stock 24v

[Nathan S]

33 minutes ago, LorenS said:

I knew that'd be a cool trick, so why would we want an automatic to do essentially the same thing? Or am I once again wildly mistaken on what is being described?

These transmissions have brass or carbon fiber synchronizers to increase or decrease shaft speed when the next gear is being selected to make the transmission shift smoother and eliminate the need to match engine speed with wheel speed. It’s not good for the synchros to float the gears so to speak. I’ve seen guys do it and tried it myself, but it’s not how the transmission was intended to be used. Heavy duty transmissions like the medium and heavy duty Eaton fuller boxes have no synchros hence the need for rev matching and more skill to operate than a light duty manual transmission. 

[LorenS]

2 hours ago, Vinster_Beta said:

Ain't talking about float shifting are ya?

Nope. Just can't figure out why a fellow needs an automatic to downshift locked up, so would replace it with a manual transmission which ALSO won't downshift locked up. I'm fairly ignorant on the general subject so trying to understand.

[Vinster_Beta]

Im kinda curious on that as well, honestly sounds like a lot of meaningless abuse to the trans without a smooth transition unlocking and relocking momentarily. Im a newbie when it comes to exhaust braking, I come from engine braking from Jakes

[Nathan S]

The only trucks I have experience with that have an automatic and an exhaust brake are all newer trucks that the exhaust brake is integrated in to the truck using the VGT. I’ve never been in a 2nd gen or 3rd gen 5.9 with an aftermarket brake and automatic so I’m not much help on whether they downshift with the converter locked or not. 

[Dynamic]

On a stock 47RE valve body, the 2-3 shift valve is hydraulically locked in the upshifted position when the converter is locked. That signal is removed in the modified valve body, which will allow a 3-2 downshift with the converter locked if so desired. It is a bit hard on the gear train to do so, but there are guys who want that function.

 

The modified valve body will allow lock up in any forward gear, if commanded to do so.

 

This turbo is working extremely well on Lenny's 1997 12-valve. They have been doing a TON of dyno testing with it and it has proven to be a great performer even on stock or lightly modified 2nd Gens. Definitely the turbo I would go with if I still had a 2nd Gen. I had the privilege of building the transmission for this project truck. It's always cool working with the guys at Dynomite.

https://dynomitediesel.com/collections/98-5-02-5-9l-24v/products/stage-1-turbo?variant=32614374834250

 

Here's a video talking about the setup.

 

Here's one talking about the transmission build.

 

Edited January 30, 2021 by Dynamic

[Vinster_Beta]

Its definitely sounds like a sweet feature to have especially with extensive towing. Idk if i'd do a 3rd to 2nd downshift without unlocking the torque converter (sounds painful) especially having to do more upgrading to the internals. Still value reliability over anything, this is definitely helping me with the list of things needed to make it all work. Heck i wouldn't even know where to start on wiring it to do the manual lockup

[IBMobile]

2 hours ago, Vinster_Beta said:

Idk if i'd do a 3rd to 2nd downshift without unlocking the torque converter (sounds painful)

I have a Dynamic built stage 2 trans and it will down shift locked up but it is a hard jolt when it does so I unlock the convertor before 

down shifting; no different than putting the clutch peddle in with a stick .  It will also lockup in 2ed but I haven't tried a 1st gear lock up.

 

2 hours ago, Vinster_Beta said:

Heck i wouldn't even know where to start on wiring it to do the manual lockup

Try this.

https://mopar1973man.com/cummins/articles.html/24-valve-2nd-generation_50/52_transmission-transfer-case/diy-converter-lock-up-with-brake-pedal-release-r536/

[Vinster_Beta]

Well that clears up that problem. Very detailed and very much appreciated! Only question I have is when the TC is manually locked up I will have to make sure I have the column shifter in the gear I want to prevent it upshifting, correct? 

 

Definitely would be convenient to buy a premade harness for this but I should be able to figure it out hopefully...

Edited February 1, 2021 by Vinster_Beta

[IBMobile]

36 minutes ago, Vinster_Beta said:

make sure I have the column shifter in the gear I want to prevent it upshifting, correct? 

Yes, but the locked up shift isn't as bad as the locked down shift.  I back off the fuel peddle before manually up shifting when locked; this reduces line pressure and gives a smooth engagement.  

 

44 minutes ago, Vinster_Beta said:

I should be able to figure it out hopefully...

Take your time, gather all the parts you need and lay it out on a piece of cardboard for the markup and assembly.

[Vinster_Beta]

Yea cant wait to feel the difference towing with it and being able to manually overide it. Heck ill have the new turbo in this week but doubt ill get to it till the following weekend. 

 

So as far as trans work to make it handle 350ish HP, is there anything else id need to look into other than a valve body? Input & output shafts? TC?

[Dynamic]

There is really no reason to be shifting locked in the lower 3 gears unless you're racing the truck (which some guys do). But shifting from 3rd to 4th, or from 4th back down to 3rd with the converter locked is much more useful, and doesn't pose any real issue.

 

You don't need any billet shafts at 350 hp, but a valve body, torque converter, accumulator piston, servo cover, and band strut (the stuff you can do with the pan off) are a good idea at pretty much any power level.

[Vinster_Beta]

My truck came with a rebuilt trans and a new TC, have no idea what internally was done as far as the rebuild, But I guess I can roll over the TC and see what was put on. It still works great and all. Is there any reason i would ned to look at say a triple disk TC vs a single disk? More more material = last longer?

[Mopar1973Man]

Just for an example using my own truck.

• Quadzilla Tuner (180 HP)
• DAP 150 HP Injectors (7 x 0.010)
• Turbo HX 35/40 Hybrid (60/60/12)

I'm close to 500 HP total to the ground. Stock HX35W is just a (54/60/12). The first to numbers are in mm of size of the wheels. The 3rd number is square centimeter opening.

[LorenS]

1 hour ago, Vinster_Beta said:

Is there any reason i would ned to look at say a triple disk TC vs a single disk?

This thread of yours, coupled with a set of new 125 HP injectors and a new turbo (hopefully) on the way led me to researching that exact thing last night. I saw a lot of guys with big numbers who towed WAY heavier than me with DPC or Goerend single disc converters and claiming to have no problem - yet. Watching videos of explanations of the internals, I certainly see how that middle clutch disk could reduce shock loading. It has the springs just like a manual transmission clutch disk.

 

So, I still have no confidence in an answer to your question for my application! 🤔

[Mopar1973Man]

I ran a Southbend Con OFE clutch for many years below 500 HP. Very good holding clutch. This time with the mods I've got I stepped up to the Dual Disc Valair Organic clutch. Again a good holding clutch but loud throw out bearing. Next clutch I will most likely swap back to Southbend...

Edited February 2, 2021 by Mopar1973Man

[Vinster_Beta]

Turbo is mainly for just Egt control, but it is nice to see what it can produce what room i have as far the power level I could achieve. Heck I probably Will never know how much it will make cause the likelyhood I take it to a dyno is slim. I just dont need to make a whole lot of extra power I ain't gonna utilize. Efficiency is one thing, bellowing smoke and racing people to the next light isn't my objective by far. My friends dont agree but they ain't funding the project or filling the tank.

 

I was debating on rv275s or something slightly larger but still possess the ability to dial back and still be efficient when time for injectors come. Haven't quite nailed a preference yet.

 

I assume it just comes down to how you drive and how aggressive you tow as far as a single vs triple. I couldn't ever find a solid answer either looking though the threads. Might be one of those things, I'll verify what I have and kinda see what happens (hopefully nothing at all). Its till healthy and working just fine, just didnt know if I need to put it on a short-term/ long-term plan.

[LorenS]

My medium-term plan (late summer at earliest, I imagine) is a torque converter and valve body.  I've done a lot of the other 'pan off' upgrades that Dynamic mentioned above, except the band strut.  Moses Ludel has a nice write up in the Turbo Diesel Register on what can and should be upgraded.  I followed that advice almost to the letter.  I didn't do the Park pawl/detent ball fix.  The Manual Valve that allows flow to the converter while in Park seemed like an excellent idea - the desire for that upgrade initiated the project.
https://www.4wdmechanix.com/Survival-Upgrades-for-Jeep-and-Dodge-Ram-Automatic-Transmissions?r=1

 

 $63  Rostra 501171 Pressure Transducer - HD

 $38  ATSG Transmission Manual

 $32  Sonnax PR Valve 22771A-02K

 $20  Sonnax Manual Valve 22771-09

 $33  Sonnax Billet Accumulator Piston 22841-04K

 $24  Intermediate Servo Cover Plate

 $43  Borg Warner Metal Governor Pressure Solenoid 22958

 

Altogether I think I spent less than $300 on parts thorough Amazon; Rock Auto likely cheaper even after shipping.

Edited February 2, 2021 by LorenS
Added costs and part numbers

[Dynamic]

On 2/2/2021 at 4:49 AM, Mopar1973Man said:

Just for an example using my own truck.

• Quadzilla Tuner (180 HP)
• DAP 150 HP Injectors (7 x 0.010)
• Turbo HX 35/40 Hybrid (60/60/12)

I'm close to 500 HP total to the ground. Stock HX35W is just a (54/60/12). The first to numbers are in mm of size of the wheels. The 3rd number is square centimeter opening.

What kind of drive pressures are you seeing with that hybrid turbo?

[Mopar1973Man]

I'm sure more than I should on the wiretap. But only on Level (CanBus) I barely reach 1,200*F EGT's. Level 2 (stock fuel) then it barely makes 1,100*F. Even on my trip to Arizona I ran wide open on the tuner but never had any EGT's issues towing a total weight of 17,000 to 18,000 pound between truck and RV. Running 65 MPH on the highway. Typically my boost is super low empty like 2 PSI at 65 MPH. 

 

Yes I know my WOT gets hot on the upper end (running wire tap) but I don't race per say but I've got good spiriting power for 3 to 5 seconds will typically get me to over 90 MPH. Being I typically don't use wiretap much any more I normally don't have an issue with EGT's for most normal travel. 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Mopar1973Man

[Dynamic]

OK. I was just curious what kind of ratio you were seeing (drive vs. boost) with that setup. It's a big piece of the "efficiency puzzle". With Lenny and those guys doing all of that dyno testing, they have landed on that Borg turbo as nearly perfect with mods that guys commonly do. I was just wondering how it compared to that hybrid you are using.

 

They're at a shade over 500 actual to-the-wheels hp, and man does that thing work good, especially with the converter that we used. I'm not the world's biggest 2nd Gen fan, especially the 12 valve, but that truck really runs nice!