Angry & can't do it anymore, serious iQuad timing issues

[Me78569]

I'd run the old tune for a bit and use the timing settings I sent.  That tune should rip good.  Work on the tune now that we have a good baseline.

[Stanley]

Well I'd like to use what I got, add on to or what ever if that's the case. These are new injectors, and freshly rebuilt turbo. If I could find a CHEAP turbo and oil Iines for compounds I could prolly  build my own piping... 

It's a dream currently lol. The boss might not approve of TWO turbos lol.

 

@Me78569

I'm assuming your talking about the "old" tune

2* max load

5* timing reduct

50% scale

2* cruise

And the latest timing 

15, 19, 25, 28, 30

90% + 1% canbus fueling

 

Honestly I'm still trying to wrap my head around the tuning parts. 

Like which way do i move what on what to start? Like a flow chart for kids 

It all really really intrigues me, but it's confusing at times! I still need to educate myself more on the data logging and figuring out how to graph it all cause that's just neat! And right up my OCD alley 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Stanley

[Me78569]

there are 2 ways to tune a quad,

 

1. good enough tuning

 

2. ocd tuning because you got nothing better to do.  

 

 

with #1 you just set your starting % where you want it to prevent smoke then you run the generic timing settings that the default tune runs. 

 

#2 you do #1 but then you adjust 1 setting at a time with timing to try and change how the truck drives for better or worse, you data log review then adjust as needed and move onto the next.  

 

I like your tune with the timing changes I made.  i would just drive it for a bit and make notes for things you want to change about it.  smoke vs power, spool vs mpg etc etc

[Mopar1973Man]

Now ive got two economy vehicles. Between the Grand Caravan reaching 25 MPG. Then Beast getting 28 MPG the biggest thing is driving style. My last trip with the mini van I cross Boise on Eagle Rd and was able to slow the degrading going light to light. Even making the climb over Horseshoe Bend grade. Most people have a heavy foot and jack rabbit starts going light to light. In Beast I watch the EGTs and engine load. Then in the mini van I watch instant MPG. When you have some feed back make sure to use that info.

[Stanley]

Well truck does alot better with a closed wastegate! 

630-670* at cruise is my rough average so far. This is with 90% canbus plus 1% up. 100% and 1% up is about 650-690* at cruise. 

Very light smoke 2nd and 3rd on normal take off, that's fine. 

While cruising I usually hover 750-850* due to minor road fluctuations very slight inclines this truck catches them really quick...

Getting on the interstate it hits average 1100* really quick but alot better with closed WG. 

I should have my first tank of fuel gone through with this tune, this week.

If I can 15mpg I'd be happy lol. Trucks never seen such thing.

Possible unrealistic wish list: 

Stay under 1000* majority of the time passing or on ramp.

16-18mpg mild-daily driver

Room too add a tid bit more fuel for a playful weekend trips to town. 

 

I'm gonna make another thread for alternate wastegate options I believe.

 

I'll update through the week. 

[Me78569]

1100* when putting the pedal down a bit is normal.  Heat is what gets the turbo moving.  

 

 

[Stanley]

Here is some data logging from this morning, short snippet cruising to work and the other should be pedal to the floor 2nd and up. Boost numbers are low though? Lack of fuel? Cruise Temps were 700* plus this morning coming into work... 

iQuad-2022-04-04-05.07.32-146142643.csv iQuad-2022-04-04-05.00.141743032035.csv

[Stanley]

No matter if I choose 90% +1, or starting at 70%+ 2%, seems to still run and average hot, 700 -750 ish. I have like 3 or 4 spots that have a short section of flat, rest of it varies very slightly but makes my egts jump extremely quickly. So egts is my only complaint so far, smoke output is really good - 100 times better. Still has a haze though when taking off or building back speedfrom a down shift etc - not black haze however... 

I've tried to move max load up or down one, timing reduct up or down one, and of course the canbus fueling at 70 & 90, but haven't really seen any changes that I can notice. 

[Silverwolf2691]

I think you are fighting the turbo now.. It's just sized a hair too big to be daily friendly..

 

12cm turbine housing might help, but IDK if they make one for the 71, I imagine so but I've been wrong before.

 

There's this add on turbine housing called the Turbonator from Diesel Power Source, its vgt, either electronic or mechanical, but the housing alone is more expensive than a whole new Borg S3XX SXE.. Claims to reduce spool up to like 400 rpm or something crazy like that. 

 

https://www.dieselpowersource.com/turbonator-vgt-vnt-variable-geometry-turbine-housing if anyone is interested.. 

[Me78569]

I think you need more tuning fuel to get the turbo moving or a smaller turbine.  your EGT's aren't really that hot at all  hottest i see in 1220* which is less than a stock truck, but your boost is low for the RPM.   

 

what starting % for 0 psi can you use and still not smoke bad when going WOT from a stop?

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by Me78569

[Mopar1973Man]

The only way to spool turbo faster is retard the timing either change the 1500 to a lower starting say 13 or try Low PSI timing reduct go higher on the scaling 50 to 75 roughly. Retarding the timing should blow more fire and expanding gases at the turbine. Once boost is built then it should flip back to more advanced timing when cruising.

[Me78569]

he might also not be sending enough fuel into the engine.   

 

both timing and fuel are important.  

[Stanley]

I put canbus fuel back to 90%+1 and run that again with all same settings I guess. Last time I tried all three setups 70, 90, 100 starting and it really didn't make a difference egt wise, little higher with the 100 but pretty close. 

 

Is 700-800 an acceptable temp for me? Maybe I'm hoping for to much? 

 

Fyi Just filled up, ~ 13 mpg...

 

The 90% doesn't smoke bad at all starting out/ getting on it.

 

The cruise temps is what I'm focusing on, is that the best way to go about it? 

[Mopar1973Man]

More you increase the cruise timing the lower the EGTs should be. But keep in mind the negative torque. Typically cruise is near 2k so you need about 19 to 21 degrees at 2k cruise RPM.

[Stanley]

Well @Mopar1973Man with what @Me78569 has put together tune wise, I am at 21.5-22* cruise timing. That should suffice correct? Im not sure what to mess with next really. 

I know this isnt a tow tune but from what I have now I cant imagine what temps will be with a trailer behind it. 

 

Just tossing out ideas, what kinda littler/ cheap turbo could I put with it to help out? Or if its even worth talking about with this turbo...

And I freaking keep forgetting to make the thread for the wastegate. 

[Silverwolf2691]

64/68/(12 OR 14)?.. 

 

Wait, I think you meant twins.. s300g/k27?/hx35.. Maybe.. I think that the 64 you have is too small to support twins.. Twins need knowledge I don't have..

 

Power Driven Diesel uses the k27 and an s369 or s372 for their ultimate towing compound kit..

 

@dieselautopower, is twins with a super b special as the big turbo a possibility or is it too small?

[Me78569]

the 64 is not suited to a compound turbo setup.  

 

egts with a trailer might honestly be fine,  a little extra load on the motor will help spool and get boost up.   Again your EGT's are not really hot.   A WOT pull that tops out at 1220*f with 6 x .013's is pretty dang good.   

 

if you wanted to talk turbos then I would be looking at a 62 or 63 sxe with a better exhaust housing to get on boost faster.    Since you are a manual with 4.10's there isn't a lot of time to get on top of the turbo until higher gears.  

[Stanley]

10 hours ago, Me78569 said:

the 64 is not suited to a compound turbo setup. 

I didn't think ot would be but I wanted to double check. Maybe at some poontoon I could save for compounds... Ive always really wanted to put some in...I think re-gearing is the next big step possibly.

 

10 hours ago, Me78569 said:

Again your EGT's are not really hot

So I'm prolly just worried to much when i shouldnt be , running 750-850 cruising on the hwy.

[Me78569]

what is the truck used for?   What are the overall goals for the truck?  It seems like the truck used to be something other than what it is now.

[Silverwolf2691]

@Me78569, I think in another thread @Stanley said the previous owner built it as a sled puller..