New IAT, temp goes above 293, watch it drop on the code reader

[Tim Waldo]

Will do...

 

[Doubletrouble]

4 hours ago, Tim Waldo said:

This all started after he replaced the VP the first time and dropped something into the air intake.... is when I started throwing IAT codes

 I don't recall this being mentioned prior to now. Did I miss something?

[Tim Waldo]

DT,

I've got a couple of posts all tied to my VP dying in January...  the IAT did NOT show up until after he did the initial work. Had to pull the VP44 and send it back to the company that sold it and then he put in the 2nd VP44..   I am presuming that he dropped something in the intake, so that wouldn't have been originally posted... just the end result of following the path...  I didn't pull the original IAT sensor until after the 2nd VP44 was installed... thought gee , how odd that it is melted... put the new one in... continued to throw codes... pulled the new one out and it was melted as well... then I started digging and found a post where someone had a similar issue.....  Truck gets delivered to a diesel shop tomorrow and MAYBE by Wednesday I get an answer.

[Doubletrouble]

 @Tim Waldo, ok gotcha. I remember reading some of the original post of the vp44 issues. I guess I just forgot who it was that had posted it. Got me a little confused. I'm all better now. Lol

[Tim Waldo]

Ok..  got the NEW VP44 installed and working.... SO it was time to take it to a shop because it was eating IAT sensors...   This is the email I requested from the shop.  Suggestions on next steps? I mean if I go with the whole block at 13k I basically have a new truck... and all the issues of original truck (cracked/missing dash, dents, dings and messed up paint)... 

 

They could not give me any information on if the mobile mechanic did anything to mess the engine up, they did say he failed on best practices of doing a compression test when he replaced the fuel injectors and that one step could have possibly saved the engine.

 

2000 Dodge Ram 3500

Performed a compression test and found that vehicle had noticeable misfire. 

1-410

2-415

3-410

4-450

5-125

6-400

Noticeable problem with cylinder 5. Took apart and found that Cylinder 5 had burnt valve, walls was scored and has caused damage to the piston. 

 

Rebuild short block and fix the cylinder head would be $11700.00 + tax 1 year warranty

 

New long block which will have a new cylinder head would be $13200.00 + tax with a 5 year warranty.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Tim Waldo

[Tractorman]

46 minutes ago, Tim Waldo said:

They could not give me any information on if the mobile mechanic did anything to mess the engine up

 

49 minutes ago, Tim Waldo said:

Noticeable problem with cylinder 5. Took apart and found that Cylinder 5 had burnt valve, walls was scored and has caused damage to the piston.

 

If this were my truck, I would want to see the failed parts.  A failure analysis will usually tell the story as to what caused the failure.  "Cylinder 5 had burnt valve."  This is a very general statement.  Was this an intake valve?  I've never seen any burnt intake valves - burnt exhaust valves, yes.  If the intake valve was held open by a foreign object, then there should be witness marks on the valve or in the piston head if the the piston made contact with the valve. 

 

I could understand an intake valve being burnt if something damaged the valve first.  Then combustion gases could starting eating away at the valve after the damage occurred.  However, a normal operating intake valve always has air flowing across its surface, unlike an exhaust valve that has hot combustion gases flowing across its surface. 

 

- John

[Tim Waldo]

3 minutes ago, Tractorman said:

 

 

If this were my truck, I would want to see the failed parts.  A failure analysis will usually tell the story as to what caused the failure.  "Cylinder 5 had burnt valve."  This is a very general statement.  Was this an intake valve?  I've never seen any burnt intake valves - burnt exhaust valves, yes.  If the intake valve was held open by a foreign object, then there should be witness marks on the valve or in the piston head if the the piston made contact with the valve. 

 

I could understand an intake valve being burnt if something damaged the valve first.  Then combustion gases could starting eating away at the valve after the damage occurred.  However, a normal operating intake valve always has air flowing across its surface, unlike an exhaust valve that has hot combustion gases flowing across its surface. 

 

- John

I asked the shop for specifics on which valve was burnt... based on your response... I'll let you know what they say.

 

as for their quote, did the prices seem correct ??  Should I go for the new long block?

[Tractorman]

2 hours ago, Tim Waldo said:

as for their quote, did the prices seem correct ??  Should I go for the new long block?

 

I don't know the answer regarding prices.  I have never had the need to replace a diesel engine - long or short block.  Maybe @Mopar1973Manwill respond here.  He is much more familiar with labor and parts cost for major engine work. 

 

What about an available used engine from a reputable source?

 

Not sure of what stage of tear down your shop has done on your engine, but I recommend that all parts related to the failure are collected and saved for you.

 

- John

 

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Tractorman

[Doubletrouble]

 I don't know how attached tou are to that truck but just for comparison, $13k would get another running truck in my area. 

 I've seen them go for less than 9k, might be worth looking fir a donor engine that runs and do a comp test on it before purchase.

[Mopar1973Man]

Hate to say it but I've never had to pull a 2nd Gen yet. No idea on time or price. I've pulled one 3rd Gen but never finished the job being @MoparMom was heading to the hospital with kidney failure.

[Tim Waldo]

@Mopar1973Man you are just making me feel like the lottery winner for the worst cummins engine...  I am torn over pay them to do it, do it myself or just throw in the towel and buy a 3rd gen..... literally new batteries and tires in December, new trackbar and steering stabilizer days before the first VP44 change and then injectors... and now a GOOD VP44.... so about 5k in already.

[Mopar1973Man]

Do yourself a favor keep the 2nd Gen. 3rd Gen just figure on 3,200 dollars of injectors every 100k miles. Cost more to keep running not to mention 3rd Gens have shorter life span from the CR injectors being when they stick open most people do not notice anything and injectors wash out the rings.

 

I just done injectors on a 2005 Cummins and the Bosch Stock injectors only lasted 1k miles and filled the crankcase with a 1.5 gallons of diesel. We upgraded to +50 DAP injectors, cross over tubes and one rocker arm set for #1 cylinder still was cheaper than Bosch Stock injectors.

 

Me personally suggest don't do 2003 up. Just a bigger pain in the ar$e and everything cost even more.

 

Oh I have a complete rebuild kit for the 24Vin the store.

https://store.mopar1973man.com/cummins-5-9l-24-valve-engine-rebuild-kit-24v-eng-reb.html

Edited April 14, 2023 by Mopar1973Man

[Tim Waldo]

38 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Oh I have a complete rebuild kit for the 24Vin the store.

https://store.mopar1973man.com/cummins-5-9l-24-valve-engine-rebuild-kit-24v-eng-reb.html

 

I looked at your rebuild kit... I don't speak rebuildereese , so I don't know what half that stuff is...  can it all be done with engine IN or engine out?  I mean I get pistons and rings... but wrist pin bushings??? I'm lost.  

 

[Doubletrouble]

 I to would stick with 2nd gen. They're pre-emissions as well so you don't have to worry about any of that. 

 Thing is, how bad is the cylinder wall scored? If it isn't bad a good hone could fix it.

 If your not into rebuilding it consider finding a good running replacement. I'm not sure what a 24v goes for separate from the truck, guess would be maybe 2k-3.5k ? Which is a far cry from the 11 plus you mentioned.

[Mopar1973Man]

Rebuild kit replaces all wearable parts and gaskets. 

[Great work!]

I've rebuilt a 12valve. Same problem burned up number 5. The heat builds quickly in 5 and 6. I had to get the block boared 40 over to get a clean cylinder.  Have your machinist make the back cylinders at the loose end of the spec. The crank and cam is pretty tough and can usually be reused without re sizing.  I used mahle pistons and a stock head gasket thickness. They shaved the deck 5 thou and the head 11 but the mahle pistons were almost designed for that and the clearance was spot on. The cause was high egt. The pump and injectors were turned up the turbo bearing was shot and the turbine was touching the housing so boost was low and towing with large tires and 3.55 gears cooked it. It was about $4500 but I did everything except the machine work my self even rebuilt the turbo my self. The head was decked but not rebuilt. If the crank needs turned expect a few hundred more. I put a full spline shaft in the NV4500 and a couple bearings and 5th gear nut that was $2000. I wish I sleeved the rear main seal because it started leaking about 10k miles later. The bearings were Michigan clevlite  IRRC the head gasket was felpro or cummins. Get a good gasket. For peace of mind maybe a water pump and belt tensioner. 

[Tim Waldo]

so maybe it wasn't my mechanic dropping something into the intake?  5 and 6 get un-naturally hot?  Taking a lot of factors into consideration, I bit the bullet this morning and started the shop on the rebuild process... still $$ well spent.

 

water pump and belt tensioner are easy replacements.

[Mopar1973Man]

If you can get photos of the head and cylinders with the pistons down so we can see the cylinder walks. I'm curious to see what happened.

[Tractorman]

7 hours ago, Great work! said:

've rebuilt a 12valve. Same problem burned up number 5.

 

7 hours ago, Tim Waldo said:

so maybe it wasn't my mechanic dropping something into the intake?

 

Try not to  jump to conclusions.  @Great work!said, "burned up number 5."  He did not say what was burned - piston, valve, cylinder, etc.  Your engine had flame going back into the intake manifold through the intake valve while the valve was closed.  Your situation is unique.  As I mentioned before, intake valves don't burn.  Something had to hold that valve open - possibly it was adjusted to tight, or foreign matter passed through the valve which could damage the valve face or valve seat or cause the valve to leak, or possibly the valve was struck and bent by the piston while the valve was in a forced open position.  A properly operating intake valve will not burn, even if combustion temperatures are excessive. 

 

Again, I recommend that you have the shop collect and save the failed parts for analysis.  @Mopar1973Manhas suggested to post some photos of the failed parts.  I, too, would be interested in seeing photos.  The photos may tell the story.

 

- John

Edited April 15, 2023 by Tractorman

[Mopar1973Man]

Being number 5 had 125 PSI sounds like the valve seat possibly? Damaged valve (struck like tractorman mentions). Fact it still has some compression the damage isn't a complete failure of the cylinder. 

 

Photos needed really badly, more I read the more I keep guessing what happened. Might be lucky and just end up servicing the head. If it's only one intake valve.