No crank No go.

[John 98 Cummins]

Hi, new member here. 

I am diagnosing a no crank problem for the last few months. Turn the key and nada, no clickity click, nothin.

the first 19 times, i tapped the starter with a steel bar and it'd start then start normally for a week or so. . I dont think tapping actually had any effect now, i did think it was the starter. but starter works great. maybe a relay going bad and a few seconds to reset ?

the 20th time, i had to hotwire the starter solenoid and it fired right up, then it worked a few more times like normal.

now, after the 21st time,, i have to hotwire the solenoid each time i go to start.

I checked the voltage at the reverse/neutral switch on the starter. 3 wires on that plug.

Brn/grn stripe had 12 volts,

blk/wht had 10 volts which i dont understand that.

and purp/grn had 0 volts.

jump the Brn to Purp and the reverse lights come on.

Jump the Brn to Blk does nothing as far as starting or getting juice up to the starter.

Codes are P0122 , APPS, its been there for a long time. P1693, this one i havent seen this code before this problem. it is Trq converter solenoid.. ?

what do i troubleshoot next ?  the ignition switch ?

[JAG1]

9 times out of ten it is the starter that goes first. Had to replace 3 on my first gen which I sold with about 450,000. My second gen work truck needed a starter at around 230,000. It had the original Denso which I saved for rebuild. The fact you had to knock on the starter, I would start with that and clean the battery posts and grounds. Going for the lifetime warranty and the upgraded rebuild will add reliability.

 

 

Edited January 13 by JAG1

[Mopar1973Man]

I would pull the starter open the solenoid section up and check the copper contacts.

 

There is a starter solenoid fuse and relay in the PDC under the hood. I've seen the starter fuse crack and randomly work and fail. Same with the relay.

 

On my OE starter from factory I've managed to burn out a few windings on the armature that created hard starts or no start conditions.

 

Depending on transmission type... manuals have a clutch slide switch that may or may not provide trigger power to the starter relay. Autos use a different method but could still create starting issues if the column is not adjusted correctly.

 

P0122 code is APPS sensor issue typically.

P1693 is a flag code just point to the other computer ECM-> PCM or PCM -> ECM.

[Doubletrouble]

 My bet would be the starter is bad. Just my $.02 

 I've had old chevy trucks in the past that had the same problem, tap the starter with a hammer or something and she starts. That'd be enough to get you home so you could replace it 

[JAG1]

44 minutes ago, Doubletrouble said:

 My bet would be the starter is bad. Just my $.02 

 I've had old chevy trucks in the past that had the same problem, tap the starter with a hammer or something and she starts. 

When I pulled what I think was the original Denso starter it was all beat up like crazy from a hammer. Previous owner got stuck for a long time.

 

I would not want to be under my truck with  most drivers speeding by and don't move over these days. Even when its the law specifying you have to slow down and move over, a majority will not slow, even when they know they are speeding nor will they move over the least little bit when they have the room. It's sad.

[Doubletrouble]

Yes @JAG1 it is. I see it daily since I drive for a living. The lack of courtesy on the road anymore is disgusting to say the least. 

[JAG1]

14 minutes ago, Doubletrouble said:

Yes @JAG1 it is. I see it daily since I drive for a living. The lack of courtesy on the road anymore is disgusting to say the least. 

Yep it is very sad. It's the lack of God in people's heart is the crux of the problem.

 

I hope one day to meet you Doubletrouble... maybe at Mike place.

[Doubletrouble]

29 minutes ago, JAG1 said:

I hope one day to meet you Doubletrouble... maybe at Mike place.

 That would be a great time! Somehow some way maybe we can make that happen.

[JAG1]

4 minutes ago, Doubletrouble said:

 That would be a great time! Somehow some way maybe we can make that happen.

With others too I hope like Tractorman and IBMobile... it be cool if that happen!

 

Bring mike a Dolly Parton Wig and you get a camp spot for life LOL!

Edited January 13 by JAG1

[John 98 Cummins]

Thanks for the responses. 

Yes, I thought it was the starter.. it is only a year old and still under warranty.    Now I have a wire connected to the starter solenoid up top, and now this is how i start, by hotwiring right to the battery,, starts everytime, i just have to open the hood..    I dont get any voltage down to the starter when i turn the key. 

   

what does the middle wire on the reverse/neutral switch do on the transmission?   it was odd that it had 9-10 volts to it..   

 

since it did it intermittently at first, and is now a constant situation,  i wonder if it was a relay going bad ?  any idea which relay it would be that turns the juice on to the starter?

 

The starter relay and fuse ?   I have the top of the box that shows the locations.. I'll see if i can send a pic in of it so i make sure i am checking the right one. 

 

 

 

[IBMobile]

This should help

 

 

 

 

 

 

[John 98 Cummins]

    Here is the actual.  I swapped the starter relay with the Trailer relay and the  problem still persisted.  

I will look over the  schematic and diagram sent. 

[JAG1]

I said before that I changed out 3 starters on my 1st gen but, I remember one of those rebuilt starters went out within a year. That's when I learned about the upgraded better company rebuilds that are available for a bit more money. I still think you have a bad starter, mechanical solonoide, bad contacts etc. However, I do not want to cause you to go thru the work of changing it out if it's not the problem. Usually it is the problem tho... can you tell me which company that did the rebuild on your lifetime guaranteed Starter motor? You can look up reviews and tell right away if they are an unreliable rebuilder. Some of them are just garbage and you have to be careful.

Edited January 14 by JAG1

[John 98 Cummins]

I dont get  12 v to the solenoid with a jumper wire and multi meter when i turn the key to start it.  in other words, i ve confirmed the solenoid isnt getting  12v..      Plus, every time, i can hotwire to the starter solenoid and it starts right up.  

I tested both fuse and relay with the key on and got 12 volts at both. 

 

makes me think it is the ignition switch, itself.  

[JAG1]

Thank you for your patience as I now think you are correct. I an slow to understand circumstances at times. Hopefully others will chime in and confirm your findings.

[IBMobile]

Key on or off there will be battery voltage at the fuse and terminal 30 of the relay. 

With the key turned to the start position there should be battery voltage at terminal 86 of the starter relay. 

Check terminal 85 of the starter relay with an ohm meter for continuity to ground.

[John 98 Cummins]

1 hour ago, IBMobile said:

Key on or off there will be battery voltage at the fuse and terminal 30 of the relay. 

With the key turned to the start position there should be battery voltage at terminal 86 of the starter relay. 

Check terminal 85 of the starter relay with an ohm meter for continuity to ground.

Thanks,  how do  I know which  terminals are 85 and 86?  are they marked ?  I didnt notice.  I guess with key on,  2 termanals should be hot, and one should go to ground.   the fourth one is neither hot or ground?  could be done with process of elimination. 

 

Edited January 15 by John 98 Cummins

[IBMobile]

This is the relay when not energized.  This is called a NO relay or Normally Open relay.

In this application terminal 87, when energized, sends battery voltage to the starter solenoid. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Ummm according to your diagram it should be 87a that is energized when 85 and 86 have +12V power.

 

87 will be energized when 85 and 86 are not energized.

[Tractorman]

I think @IBMobilehas it right.  When the coil is energized, current will flow between terminal 30 and 87.

 

- John