Greeeting! :)

[Mace]

My name is Mace.

 

I'm a looong time lurker on here. Before here I was active on contributions for Dave Fritz’s site before it disappeared. I’ve been following 2nd gens since they debuted. I bought mine new in 01’ and still rock it!

 

I recently deleted my fb association with 2nd Gen Cummins as it’s not technical enough for me. I thrive on modifications that make our trucks more competitive & mechanically modern. The W-T mods I discovered here and installed sealed the deal to jump ship.

I’ve completed some neat modifications on my truck I’m happy to share. Here’s a couple:

 

• Engine side APPS delete (complete electronic pedal - no cable/bellcrank) 

 

• Vacuum/ps pump delete to midrange pump only/remote reservoir setup

 

• Electric vacuum pump (Super Duty) replacement for above mod.

 

• Quad headlights with upgraded relay harnesses with DRL-1 module so I can maintain my drl requirement (I’m Canadian) 

 

Anyways, hope to sponge as much info as I can. If I can help give me a shout.

 

Cheers!

Edited November 16 by Mace

[IBMobile]

Welcome to the site.   You've piqued my interest with the vacuum/power steering pumps deleted.  Tell more with pictures please.

[Tractorman]

Welcome to the site Mace.  Some interesting things you have done to your truck.

 

Looks like @IBMobilebeat me to it.  I am interested in your APPS delete, as well.  I see that you have a 6 speed transmission.  Does your electronic pedal have smooth, precise control of the the throttle (important to me with a manual transmission)?

 

I have a 2002 truck - original owner - at 393,000 miles.  How many miles / kilometers on your truck?

 

- John

 

 

[Mace]

IBM - It’s not complicated. I had some pains in finding some parts to make it clean vs how some others have done it (ps/vacuum mod). I like to make things look like they came out of the factory.

 

if your interested I can supply all part numbers I just have to look them all up again. 

 

Also I’m doing this all by my phone so it’s kinda slow.

 

Tractor - As for the apps I can take some fresh pics tomorrow in the light. I use a Williams Control apps as they made the original one, my throttle is crisp and perfect and I haven’t had an issue in the 2 years since I did it. I made a custom bracket to mount it where the old one goes. 
 

Here’s a couple I have on my phone still. You can see the bellcrank is gone and the reservoir is mounted.

I’m at 423k km and counting.

 

i have some other mods in the works for drivetrain to make it bulletproof. Still gathering parts but will make a post when it comes together.

[Tractorman]

Mace, thanks for the quick reply - I will be looking forward to seeing the pictures tomorrow.  I have always had engine noise transmitted into the cabin via the throttle cable.  Did you have a similar noise before you did the throttle modification?

 

- John

[Mace]

John,

 

I works as a truck mechanic at a Kenworth dealership. I’ve seen tons of midrange trucks come though with ISB’s and they all run an electronic pedal. I figured I could make one as well since the cable bellcrank in mine was sloppy and kinda a stupid design. I wanted to clean up the engine bay as well.

 

I use an International truck pedal assembly with a WC sensor mounted on a custom bracket and I use a jumper harness from the engine harness plug to the new pedal. 
 

The idea isn’t original but I’ve never seen one in a 2nd gen.

Edited November 16 by Mace

[Tractorman]

Do you recall the approximate cost for the conversion?  Also, what is a "WC sensor"?

 

- John

[Mace]

Apps relocation mod is simple. Just need some fab skills. Your not changing anything, just moving the apps from the noisey, dirty, vibraty engine to inside.

 

Once the bell crank & cable is removed you’ll need to remove the pedal assembly from the floor. Not the aluminum mount just the pedal.

 

You need a pedal assembly as suggested. You’ll have to make a custom bracket to mount the pedal to that’ll mount to the old aluminum pedal mount. Throw away the no name apps that comes with the new pedal and install yours or a Williams Control (WC) one so you know it’ll function correctly.

 

Make a jumper harness from engine harness connector to the pedal, just have to pin the connectors the same way front to back so it matches the engine side connector. I’d suggest using the same hole in firewall the old cable went through with a grommet. THEN pin and connect the harness wires to the connector base vs drilling a big hole 7/8” in the firewall.

 

Secure the harness to various points to make it clean and trouble free.

 

I can’t tell you how to make the bracket I can only show you what I did in pics for ideas. I don’t want to give incorrect info and then you getting mad at me. It’s not difficult but it took me a couple times before I got it spot on. The bottom bolts through the pivot pin in the old pedal (vide grips will remove it - just turn it out). The top side mounts to an existing in the upper part of the aluminum bracket so it stays rigid.

 

This mod isn’t too expensive (under $400 for me at the time). It’s time consuming but worth it!

 

Parts:

 

699-5101 pedal (Rockauto)

1x 6 pin male/female Duetsch connector(s)

6-8 feet of 6 wire harness

131973 apps (Williams Control)

 

 

Here’s the vacuum pump mod:

 

Since I still need vacuum I added the Super Duty setup. My truck only needs vacuum for hvac and the exhaust brake. I have a non cad Dana 60 so all those lines are not there at the diff & transfer case. My cruise is ecm controlled.

 

Parts:

 

CON166 - pump connector (Rockauto)

VCP112 - vacuum pump (Rockauto)

Vacuum hose

Mini fuse tap connector

4 pin relay & base connector 

 

I mounted the pump to the fuse box cover. I attached a 4 pin relay to the pump bracket. Pin 30 is right from pdc positive cable, pin 87 goes to the spliced in pump connector. The pump ground and pin 86 are spliced together and ground to fender stud. Pin 85 is triggered from 10a fuse tap for radio in dash fuse panel, then run a wire out to the relay. Pump only comes on with key is in ignition/start stage. It’s turns off when vacuum is achieved by an internal governor.

 

The pump only uses 2 pins but the connector comes with 4. I depinned the connector to get rid of the 2 wires not needed.

 

You can run the vacuum line out to your firewall vacuum line and connect it but mine runs 8” or so to a bracket that the exhaust brake solenoid is mounted to. I have a tee in the inlet that I use to run to the firewall oem vacuum line.

 

If & when the pump dies it’s 5 minutes to replace it. You won’t hear the pump until key on and you don’t hear it at all with the engine running.

 

No more vacuum pump oil leaks was the selling point for me

So here’s how I did the power steering mod & vacuum pump:

 

Parts for PS:

 

4002056 plug - Cummins

RES0161 reservoir - Rockauto 

4988390 pump kit - Cummins performance.com

M20x1.5 to 6 jic fitting

 

I mounted the reservoir to the driver battery hold down rod using some p clamps.

It’s rigid and clean and removable if need be.

 

The ports on the reservoir are 3/4” and 3/8”. I ran both the steering box & hydroboost returns to the reservoir and lucky for me they’re 3/8” as well.

 

I removed the fitting out of the block and put a proper plug in it, be aware it’s not npt or orb but a metric size. Or I guess you could just put a #4 jic cap on the original fitting.

 

Once the oem vacuum pump assembly is removed. You’ll need to install the studs with some red loc-tite, don’t bottom the studs out in the timing case or you won’t have enough for the nut to grab onto.

 

This is key. The low pressure supply fitting is 7/8”. You’ll need to remove it and have a machine shop turn it down to 3/4” for proper fitment. Also the fitting won’t come off with the pump mounted :/ ask me how I know. The pressure side needs a straight fitting (see above in parts list).

 

It’s crucial to find the pressure fitting in steel as it’s rated for better pressure than an aluminum one say from Amazon (aluminum equivalent is rated for 1500 psi).

 

Once that’s dealt with run a hose from reservoir around the intake pipe the pump supply port and secure it you deem fit.

 

For the pressure hose simply remove the old hose from the hydroboost and cut the old pump side fitting end off and crimp on a 90* 6 jic fitting (3/8”). It’ll reach perfectly once it’s reinstalled.

 

Refill system with ATF and bleed system by locking wheels left & right in the air.

 

***The pump is from China. The part number doesn’t cross over to anything genuine Cummins. But it’s rated for 1450 psi/3.4 gpm and puts the oem Saginaw pump to shame***

 

I had a problem with not able to turn wheels at a stop in my truck, soon as I started to go the assist would kick in and I could turn. Now I can power lock left & right at idle/stop with no effort.

 

Edited November 17 by Mace

[Andyba20]

Pretty slick @Mace keep it going. 

[Tractorman]

Mace,

 

Thanks for the sharing details on those two mods - very informative and you have definitely caught my attention.  I have the very same symptom that you mention regarding the limited turning of the steering wheel with the vehicle stopped.  I would be very happy to see that gone forever.

 

Definitely like the idea of continuing to use my Timbo APPS inside the cab.

 

- John

[IBMobile]

Thanks for sharing the mods.  The vacuum pump that is used is the same type Volvo used for the cruise control in the 240, 740, and 850 models. 

[Mace]

John - The Timbo apps is just a repackaged WC. He even says it on his website. Highway robbery if you ask me. We sell them for pennies compared to his price. Good scam though.

 

IBM - the vacuum pump is used in 3rd gens as well. It’s quite common.

 

Edited November 16 by Mace

[JAG1]

I haven't posted for quite a while... have to say, Mace's work, quality of post and information needs to be a sticky. I hope Mike agrees!

[Tractorman]

10 hours ago, Mace said:

4988290 pump kit - Cummins performance.com

 

This part number is showing gasket only.  I did see a pump (no kit) with the part number 4988390, not 290.  Is there an actual "kit"?

 

I know - lots of questions.

 

- John

[Mace]

The part number isn’t Cummins. Again fake. If you google “6bt power steering pump” their page with it advertised will show up in your results. Oh my bad I put the wrong number in I was going by memory! I corrected the number in the mod post.

 

The pump kit on their website though is pump, studs & gasket. And as of yesterday when I checked their price went from $178 USD to whatever it is now so they’re selling like hotcakes after I made that post on a couple of fb pages I once belonged to after I did my mod.

Edited November 17 by Mace

[Tractorman]

So, I ordered the parts for the APPS relocate and the power steering / reservoir and vacuum pump relocate.  Some of the parts have arrived and I am going to do the APPS relocate, first.

 

First observation on the new APPS throttle pedal is that the pedal only rotates 20° from stop to stop.  The mechanical part of the OEM APPS rotates 45° from stop to stop.  I much prefer the 45° for more precise throttle control.  Just curious, @Mace - is your new throttle pedal also limited to 20° rotation?

 

I am going to modify the OEM APPS throttle and make it work for three reasons.  One (as just mentioned) - the 45° rotation is preferred, two - there is a mechanical low idle and high idle adjustment screw, and three - I already have a functioning custom installed fast-idle solenoid mounted to the hardware.

 

I have already removed all of the throttle associated components under the hood.  It certainly does free up some space.

 

Just thought of something, so I am editing this part of my post.  I need to check the distance of the throw on the OEM APPS end of the throttle to see if is the same as the distance of throw on other end of the throttle.  If so, it would be a 1:1 ratio and the throttle pedal would need to rotate 45° to get full use of the throttle. 

 

- John

Edited November 23 by Tractorman

[Mace]

All I did was put my apps on the new pedal assembly. I’m not sure how many rotational degrees it is but it worked the same as the old bellcrank setup. I have full throttle 0-100% when I tested it out of the truck.

 

I would rather the apps not bottom out on each side of its sweep. Keep me updated.

 

I don’t have a high idle solenoid I programmed the ecm per TSB 18-019-01 for cold weather high/3 cylinder.

Edited November 23 by Mace

[Mopar1973Man]

16 hours ago, Mace said:

I don’t have a high idle solenoid I programmed the ecm per TSB 18-019-01 for cold weather high/3 cylinder.

 

Talk to @dieselautopower they handle the Smarty Tunr to flash the ECM for that function. Then @Quadzilla Power handles the high idle switch so you can control the high idle. 

[Mace]

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Talk to @dieselautopower they handle the Smarty Tunr to flash the ECM for that function. Then @Quadzilla Power handles the high idle switch so you can control the high idle. 

I don’t need a manual high idle. I was saying that mine is enabled by ecm for cold weather. I don’t run a pto or anything where I need to control it.

 

I don’t even have it tuned. Stock power with RV275’s :D

[Tractorman]

@mace, I am proceeding with my APPS  relocate.  I have removed all the necessary items.  There is a pin that is pressed into a part of the aluminum bracket that I need to remove so I can use the hole for my custom bracket (not made yet).  Did you remove this pin, and if so, how did you do it?

 

- John