How to get lower egt's

[Cummins2001]

Don't know anything about the ebay ones - are they genuine holset ?? They are probably fine.

I would look over at CF. I know some moderators and key people were selling HX35's used for around 250 shipped. Since its off a working truck - thats what I would look for ................ I think you need a downpipe adjustment for the exhaust ?? Not sure ...... I think thats what rburks meant;

guy on ebay says its off a 1998.5 dodge ram 3500 cummins.. Its a hx35w and here is the link to see it http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170557717707&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:MOTORS:1123.

[rburks]

Sounds good.. I see a brand new hx35 on ebay for 199. or i can get a used one for less but i would have to put a new waste gate on it cause it wouldnt hold a vac the guy said.

IF YO ARE GOING WITH NEW: 2-recomendations

Switzer S300 {dont go any larger than 12cm on exhaust end &around 60 on the compressor end}

price is around 1000.00

ATS Aurora3000: This turbo is said to be designed & Mapped specificely for the Cummins 24valve running mild mods & injectors.." it does not have a waste gate" comes with 4"S/S Down pipe and all gaskets and hardware.. "BACKED BY A UNLIMITED 3YR. 150,000MILE WARRANTY...

price..around... 1450.00+

IF YOU CAN GET YOUR HANDS ON A GOOD HX35 i would say you would be satisifed...but that is a story within its self..be aware of play in the shaft from side to side you should be able to feel the play but not see it... it must have 10,000 play to allow oil to coat and pass around the bearings

If i was going to go With a used HX35 I would look for a good core at a cheep price with very little play and make sure the blades have no been rubbing the housing..then i would send it to a turbo shop such as D.I.S. and let them rebuild it with new seals and bearings..i think you could end up with aroud 1/2 the price of new...

:smart:BE AWARE OF THE EBAY TURBOS, THEY ARE CHINA KNOCK-OFF'S of a HX35 if you look close to photos the # on the housing casting is chinesse...

Richie

[Cummins2001]

IF YO ARE GOING WITH NEW: 2-recomendations

Switzer S300 {dont go any larger than 12cm on exhaust end &around 60 on the compressor end}

price is around 1000.00

ATS Aurora3000: This turbo is said to be designed & Mapped specificely for the Cummins 24valve running mild mods & injectors.." it does not have a waste gate" comes with 4"S/S Down pipe and all gaskets and hardware.. "BACKED BY A UNLIMITED 3YR. 150,000MILE WARRANTY...

price..around... 1450.00+

IF YOU CAN GET YOUR HANDS ON A GOOD HX35 i would say you would be satisifed...but that is a story within its self..be aware of play in the shaft from side to side you should be able to feel the play but not see it... it must have 10,000 play to allow oil to coat and pass around the bearings

If i was going to go With a used HX35 I would look for a good core at a cheep price with very little play and make sure the blades have no been rubbing the housing..then i would send it to a turbo shop such as D.I.S. and let them rebuild it with new seals and bearings..i think you could end up with aroud 1/2 the price of new...

:smart:BE AWARE OF THE EBAY TURBOS, THEY ARE CHINA KNOCK-OFF'S of a HX35 if you look close to photos the # on the housing casting is chinesse...

Richie

I didnt notice the lettering befor. thanks for mentioning that.. How bout this turbo? Same guy sellin it but this is the original oem. Sounds like it only has a bad wategate valve? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120639213379&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

[JOHNFAK]

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/98-5-02-2nd-gen-all-products/331229-hx35.html http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/98-5-02-2nd-gen-all-products/330800-hx35-super-b-rims-camper-shell-stacks.html http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/98-5-02-2nd-gen-all-products/329589-hx35w.html http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/98-5-02-2nd-gen-all-products/330367-hx-35-a.html http://forum.mopar1973man.com/showthread.php/2813-Coolingmist-Group-Buy!

[Cummins2001]

That last link is water/meth injection right.. How does that work? I thought water and engines didnt mix.

[JOHNFAK]

Since I don't have 1st hand experience - I just bought one I will just say I bought it to reduce EGT's whilst towing to allow me to run my EDGE on higher levels. Here are some links with more info - once I have it installed will post 1st hand experiences; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_injection_(engines) http://www.snowperformance.net/faqs_type.php?type=diesel Unlike gasoline engines, the power in a turbo diesel is largely a function of fuel. The problem with continually adding fuel is that you create an over-fueling condition and reach a point where the exhaust gas temperatures become prohibitive (over 1300 degrees F). A 50/50 water/methanol mix will decrease EGT's approximately 200-300 degrees F while increasing power 50-100HP. Power is increased through: • Air charge cooling - Water/methanol usually lowers air charge temps over 200 degrees F. Low air temps makes denser air charge which provides more molecules of oxygen for combustion. • Combustion conditioning - the methanol acts as a combustion catalyst as well as a cooling agent. Water vaporization inside the combustion chamber increases torque and power output through "the steam engine" effect. ..... thats the theory

[Cummins2001]

I see.. Where do you get the water/meth stuff to run it? does it spray through the stock injectors or do you have to get different ones to run it? Would this be a better thing to do then swaping for the HX35 turbo? Anybody know if anyone makes the plummin for twin turbo's cheap?

--- Update to the previous post...

As in where do you get the liquid to spray in.. and how much does it cost..

[ISX]

I think most people just get windshield wiper fluid. Not sure if that has methanol in it or not, never looked into it.The water is injected through an injector that you can put basically anywhere, like before the turbo shooting into the compressor, in the intake horn.. It is a VERY fine mist like an aerosol can that goes into the engine with the intake air, much like gas on carborated gassers. It is NOT in the fuel system in any way shape or form (seemed like you were thinking that with the stock injector comment). Hopefully that clears some things up for you.

[rburks]

I think most people just get windshield wiper fluid. Not sure if that has methanol in it or not, never looked into it. The water is injected through an injector that you can put basically anywhere, like before the turbo shooting into the compressor, in the intake horn.. It is a VERY fine mist like an aerosol can that goes into the engine with the intake air, much like gas on carborated gassers. It is NOT in the fuel system in any way shape or form (seemed like you were thinking that with the stock injector comment). Hopefully that clears some things up for you.

The windshield washer used for water/methanol injection sys. is the "BLUE" stuff thats good to -20f it will say "CONTAINS METHANOL" on the label some say its 30% methanol some say 40% Richie:thumbup2:

[Cummins2001]

Yeah I was a little confuesed.. Is there a certant kit or stage i need? whats a good place to get it and how much of the windshield washer stuff will it use? Anyone want to expain in depth what all this does and what you use or do to adjust it and some pictures of a system installed on someones truck would be nice.. Thanks

[JOHNFAK]

Yeah I was a little confuesed.. Is there a certant kit or stage i need? whats a good place to get it and how much of the windshield washer stuff will it use? Anyone want to expain in depth what all this does and what you use or do to adjust it and some pictures of a system installed on someones truck would be nice.. Thanks

I just bought one - and haven't had a chance to annoy ISX and the guys yet about installing it. Gimme a week or two. There are 3 or 4 main vendors I have seen (Snow, AEM, devils own, coolingmist) ........ I hear good things about snow and devils own. Generally you use distilled water or the -20c blue anitfreeze from wallyworld which is 30% methanol I think. Most guy seem to use 1 nozzle - but the nozzles are rated at different gph of flow - so depends - kit comes with 2. The system is controlled to come on at a set PSI like say 16 and max out at a second setting like say 25. I hear of all different kinds of figures - with the literature saying +50-70HP and - 250 degrees egt. The guys I speak with in real life tend to say they like the kit but hard to put a number on it. Sounds like each setup is different and they average around 100-200 degrees reduction at full boost of EGT and pickup 1-2mpg+. The amount of fluid depends on how long your running at high boost - and what you set the system at - eg - towing. BUt I think daily driving will run around 1 gallon (around the amount in your windshield wiper fluid) for a full tank .............. towing .......around 50-80 miles per gallon depending on terrain. I only bought this as I got it for same price as a used turbo, else I would have gone with the HX35 first I figured I will try it for a while, if I don't like it I will sell it an buy the hx35. No loss apart from some time and a few parts. I also happen to like the HY35 Its spools nicely with my thottle - and I don't want the HX35 to 'lag' it down - I don't think it will as same size except for flange/exhaust ........ but I don't know :P

[ISX]

I am not sure but this water thing, to me, just seems like a way of blindfolding the turbo issue. It might run cooler but you still have a 9cm housing. Maybe I am wrong but it sure seems like it is just covering up that issue. Personally I would get the HX35 and if you still need it, get the water.

[Cummins2001]

Yeah im in the same boat.. I dont want to replace my turbo with the hx35 cause i gotta get a bunch of different stuff for it to make it work.. I hear you gotta have different down pipe. Thats one thing.. I want to keep the turbo the same for now cause in the future im wantin to get an exhaust brake and having different turbo elbo might screw me.. So Im thinkin this water/meth injection sound like a winner.. Im gonna get a better intake horn with the taped holes already in it anyways.. How much was your kit and where did you get it?

--- Update to the previous post...

I am not sure but this water thing, to me, just seems like a way of blindfolding the turbo issue. It might run cooler but you still have a 9cm housing. Maybe I am wrong but it sure seems like it is just covering up that issue. Personally I would get the HX35 and if you still need it, get the water.

Well im not made of money so i mean if I can get my egt's lower with the water and keep the same turbo then Im not gonna have to worry bout some used turbo i bought not being very good or having to be rebuilt.. How does the HX35 spool up on your truck.. I dont wanna loose any turbo boost and i got no where near enough money for turbo upgrade.. as in a bigger better turbo. I dont know enough bout turbo's to be able to spot something wrong with a used one someone trying to sell.. So if you want to educate me on what is bad and what is good.. go ahead.. im all ears

[JOHNFAK]

Yeah im in the same boat.. I dont want to replace my turbo with the hx35 cause i gotta get a bunch of different stuff for it to make it work.. I hear you gotta have different down pipe. Thats one thing.. I want to keep the turbo the same for now cause in the future im wantin to get an exhaust brake and having different turbo elbo might screw me.. So Im thinkin this water/meth injection sound like a winner.. Im gonna get a better intake horn with the taped holes already in it anyways.. How much was your kit and where did you get it?

--- Update to the previous post...

Well im not made of money so i mean if I can get my egt's lower with the water and keep the same turbo then Im not gonna have to worry bout some used turbo i bought not being very good or having to be rebuilt.. How does the HX35 spool up on your truck.. I dont wanna loose any turbo boost and i got no where near enough money for turbo upgrade.. as in a bigger better turbo. I dont know enough bout turbo's to be able to spot something wrong with a used one someone trying to sell.. So if you want to educate me on what is bad and what is good.. go ahead.. im all ears

Yeah look - I think I should qualify. What ISX says is right. There are a number of reasons why a bigger turbo and flange is better - not just the lowering of EGT. I guess I wasn't sure how much a hx35 would drop my egt's from, and I kinda liked the idea that the injection gave me lower EGT's and MORE power with methanol. The turbo alone won't give more power - it allows you to dump more fuel though=power.

So - what I am trying to say is its NOT a cheaper or better option. Its just another option. I still have that 9cm restriction point with the HY35. And in the end if I really like the injections system I still MAY end up getting a hx35. I can get extra HP from running methanol - but that costs $$. So these kits are $400 odd plus the cost of running methanol - so its an ongoing cost once you get it. So in that way its more expensive than a hx35.

Anyway - I got mine for $220 missing a few small parts - so I might have $300 in it by the end. Then I need to buy methanol mix. I will mainly run water or low methanol (30%) so won't be too bad - but since I can buy a used HX35 for $250 total its definately not cheaper. I guess in the end I just wanted to try it, it seemed like a neat concept - and I think if it works I will get lower egt's - but I am yet to intall and prove how good it is !! Will keep you posted :P

[ISX]

I understand about the money deal and the whole depth of changing out turbos. I just kind of see it as being something that will keep haunting you because of the 9cm restriction. You will get the lower EGT's from the water injection but you will get more power from a bigger turbo because it will be able to breath out the exhaust for once. The HY35 is only on the autos in 2001 (maybe 2000 also) and most people get rid of them for the HX35. The spool up is not really that much of an issue. John's truck spools up quicker than mine but it's not like mine spools up at 2500, it spools up around 1600. I have boost lower than that but if I were to floor it, it wouldn't light up until 1600. You and John are in it for the towing though so why worry about spooling when it really isn't that drastic between the HX and HY. You are spooling for a short time but the 1150F hill you go up lasts a long time.. I think water injection is nice and may solve the EGT issue, but the HX would also fix it as everyone else here doesn't have the EGT issues that you and John have, which obviously has to stem from that HY. Along with lowering the EGT, the engine will now be able to breath, it will have more power and run more efficiently, possibly even gaining a mpg. The HY was put on there for emissions. When I floor it I get smoke at low RPM's, but that wouldn't be possible if I had adequate boost, hence the reason they put on the HY. The HY chokes out around 29-30psi which is obvious on Johns truck where it stops there like a rock, the HX will happily go to 35, which will give you more power and lower EGT's. Either way is a good route, but I think getting rid of the bottleneck has more benefits.

[rburks]

I understand about the money deal and the whole depth of changing out turbos. I just kind of see it as being something that will keep haunting you because of the 9cm restriction. You will get the lower EGT's from the water injection but you will get more power from a bigger turbo because it will be able to breath out the exhaust for once. The HY35 is only on the autos in 2001 (maybe 2000 also) I have a 2002 Auto and i just took off a HY35.... and most people get rid of them for the HX35. The spool up is not really that much of an issue. John's truck spools up quicker than mine but it's not like mine spools up at 2500, it spools up around 1600. I have boost lower than that but if I were to floor it, it wouldn't light up until 1600. You and John are in it for the towing though so why worry about spooling when it really isn't that drastic between the HX and HY. You are spooling for a short time but the 1150F hill you go up lasts a long time..

I think water injection is nice and may solve the EGT issue, but the HX would also fix it as everyone else here doesn't have the EGT issues that you and John have, which obviously has to stem from that HY. Along with lowering the EGT, the engine will now be able to breath, it will have more power and run more efficiently, possibly even gaining a mpg. The HY was put on there for emissions. When I floor it I get smoke at low RPM's, but that wouldn't be possible if I had adequate boost, hence the reason they put on the HY. The HY chokes out around 29-30psi which is obvious on Johns truck where it stops there like a rock, the HX will happily go to 35, which will give you more power and lower EGT's.

Either way is a good route, but I think getting rid of the bottleneck has more benefits.

Richie:thumbup2:

[ISX]

Richie:thumbup2:

Had to dig up the specs and yeah I guess they threw them on all automatic trucks from 2000-2002. Not sure why I was thinking 01 only Thanks Richie!

[Mopar1973Man]

Yeah like the early trucks like 98.5 and 99 were HX35 on the automatics... Even crazier yet... The older 1st gens had H1C turbos with 16 cm2 housings... I've seen a few without a wastegate because even at full throttle it couldn't build more an 15 PSI and about 800*F EGT's... Like Taz here has a 1992 Dodge with a HX35 turbo even with his pump turned up (way up) and towning a 30 foot jet boat to Lewiston, ID he never got over 1,000 *F worth of EGT's... He can bury the boost gauge on common though... Some to still think about...

[Cummins2001]

Is the waste gate in the same location on the hx35 then on the hy35? I got a j hook on the turbo i got now. will it work on this other turbo also.. or will i even need it?

[ISX]

Not sure on location. The advantage with the J-hook with a 24V is you can keep that wastegate shut but have it defuel to keep it from hitting over 35psi. Like on mine, I have no way to regulate it like that, if I put a j-hook on it my truck would hit 50+psi. So if you ever read something like "I plugged the wastegate on my 12V!" never listen to any advice those people give It is different on a 24V if you are able to have that limit. I know Mike's edge comp doesn't have any limits so I think he would be in the same boat as a 12V, I don't know if the ECM on 24V has a boost limit that would automatically defuel or not.