valve/rockerarm tick or chatter

[cumminapart]

I've got a sound that started over a year ago from inside the dash.(truck was still completely stock and 115k) At first I thought it was just something in the door pocket or glove box rattling.. it also was so faint i thought I might be hearing things...and I would only hear it at around 2000 rpms if I pressed the pedal (some days I wouldnt hear it though and then it'd come back confirming I hadnt been hearing things)It eventually got louder and louder til now it actually is really annoying but still its worse sometimes and sometimes I swear its gone(i thought it was gone all winter but it came back as it started warming up out)I've checked and fixed a leak from my turbo/downpipe connection but that didnt fix it.I'm highly doubting it to be the exhaust manifold and can't feel any exhaust escaping.The best idea I can come up with is my edge is effed and its being finicky with the timing... would that make any sense even though i did hear a slight noise barely before i had the edge it may not have been the same noise cuz it can be pretty loud now?I have some injectors on the way so i'm going to do a valve adjustment when i do the swap to see if that or the injectors help.. Not gaining oilSo if anyone could give me any input on this issue I'd appreciate it... anything I should look for on the valves while there?Oh yea, and it only does it under load.. not idling or free revvingfor awhile i thought maybe carbon build up?I've spent the last year searching the web now and then and have found many things that sounded similar but nothing quite the same..when it first started getting louder itd only be between 1500-2000 rpms... its not near as noticeable after 2000 rpms

[Mopar1973Man]

Hmmm... I would do a valve adjustment first off just to see if there is any really loose lash. Now if you find a super loose one you might take the pushrod out and check and see if it's bent. Lay it on a flat counter and roll it and watch. Just for sake of double checking yourself I would also pull the injectors and have them pop tested. While they are out I would get a compression gauge and check the compresion. Then you know your covered...

[cumminapart]

i have some injectors on the way right now that are set at 300bar so the injectors should be all seti'll make sure to get a pressure gauge but how exactly do i go through this process of checking the compression?and would you think maybe if the valve lash was getting out of adjustment that would have been the first more subtle tick sound i was hearing and then once i put the edge in and the adjustment got further out it could have bent a pushrod creating the louder definitely having issues sound?im just trying to get any foresight on the issue before i actually start jumping into it because i probably wont have a computer.... but then again you might be getting a call sometime next week when im in mid process lol

[Mopar1973Man]

Comments in RED...

i have some injectors on the way right now that are set at 300bar so the injectors should be all set

Here yo go with pop pressures...

i'll make sure to get a pressure gauge but how exactly do i go through this process of checking the compression?

Here you go... I got a write up for that...

http://mopar.mopar1973man.com/cummins/general/compression/compression-test.htm

and would you think maybe if the valve lash was getting out of adjustment that would have been the first more subtle tick sound i was hearing and then once i put the edge in and the adjustment got further out it could have bent a pushrod creating the louder definitely having issues sound?

Well for the sake of doing easy and simple checks I would rather you chase them first before spending big money guessin' But as for valve lash I heard of people driving many miles and letting the lash get way out of wack. All kind of weird things happen.

im just trying to get any foresight on the issue before i actually start jumping into it because i probably wont have a computer.... but then again you might be getting a call sometime next week when im in mid process lol

Phone call are welcomed... Help yourself to the phone and I'll do what I can... If not I'll find someone that can...

[cumminapart]

so according to that it says pop off pressure of 310bar but the injectors im getting are supposedly set at 300 bar

(a guy on CF was selling them. he said he got them in as a core and his injector builder who isn't a CF member went through them and set them up right. the ad said 7x9(100hp ish) injectors set to 300bar)

for the 200 dollar price i guess i figured i would jump on it. should i be kicking myself?

i thought that stock injector pop off pressure was 280bar so i thought 300 bar would be good

and just a side question which i might be able to find somewhere else but does the pop pressure affect the timing because it seems like with a higher pressure the injector spray would happen a slight bit later when the higher pressure has been reached

--- Update to the previous post...

on cummins forum one guy told me that its a diesel and its all in the territory don't fix it if its not broke...if the new injectors dont fix it just dont worry about it.

another agreed with his response saying..my truck shakes rattles and it rolls

my take is that when something aint right it aint right regardless of what territory I'm treading on.

when the shakes and rattles are more and the rolling is less i think something probably needs attention

i know noises are almost impossible to diagnose over the phone or over the internet but if anyone else has any input its greatly appreciated but i think moparman pretty much covered anything i can keep an eye on while im gettin into it

(another thing i've noticed is when its warmer out..above freezing.. the noise is more solid but the acceleration is smooth like it should be)

[Mopar1973Man]

so according to that it says pop off pressure of 310bar but the injectors im getting are supposedly set at 300 bar

(a guy on CF was selling them. he said he got them in as a core and his injector builder who isn't a CF member went through them and set them up right. the ad said 7x9(100hp ish) injectors set to 300bar)

for the 200 dollar price i guess i figured i would jump on it. should i be kicking myself?

i thought that stock injector pop off pressure was 280bar so i thought 300 bar would be good

and just a side question which i might be able to find somewhere else but does the pop pressure affect the timing because it seems like with a higher pressure the injector spray would happen a slight bit later when the higher pressure has been reached

--- Update to the previous post...

on cummins forum one guy told me that its a diesel and its all in the territory don't fix it if its not broke...if the new injectors dont fix it just dont worry about it.

another agreed with his response saying..my truck shakes rattles and it rolls

my take is that when something aint right it aint right regardless of what territory I'm treading on.

when the shakes and rattles are more and the rolling is less i think something probably needs attention

i know noises are almost impossible to diagnose over the phone or over the internet but if anyone else has any input its greatly appreciated but i think moparman pretty much covered anything i can keep an eye on while im gettin into it

(another thing i've noticed is when its warmer out..above freezing.. the noise is more solid but the acceleration is smooth like it should be)

Yeah like you found out the stock injector pressure is 310 bars.

As for the 100ish HP sticks well the only thing I can think of is smoke and control. 100 HP stick will for sure dump some smoke.

I wounder if you getting that over advancement of timing where the injection rattles to beat hell. I typically hear the heavy knock in the winter time without winter fronts. But this is my first winter with my MPG fooler in place, winter fronts and IAT set at 140*F. Rattle is nearly gone.

[cumminspower]

I've got a sound that started over a year ago from inside the dash. (truck was still completely stock and 115k) At first I thought it was just something in the door pocket or glove box rattling.. it also was so faint i thought I might be hearing things...and I would only hear it at around 2000 rpms if I pressed the pedal (some days I wouldnt hear it though and then it'd come back confirming I hadnt been hearing things) It eventually got louder and louder til now it actually is really annoying but still its worse sometimes and sometimes I swear its gone (i thought it was gone all winter but it came back as it started warming up out) I've checked and fixed a leak from my turbo/downpipe connection but that didnt fix it. I'm highly doubting it to be the exhaust manifold and can't feel any exhaust escaping. The best idea I can come up with is my edge is effed and its being finicky with the timing... would that make any sense even though i did hear a slight noise barely before i had the edge it may not have been the same noise cuz it can be pretty loud now? I have some injectors on the way so i'm going to do a valve adjustment when i do the swap to see if that or the injectors help.. Not gaining oil So if anyone could give me any input on this issue I'd appreciate it... anything I should look for on the valves while there? Oh yea, and it only does it under load.. not idling or free revving for awhile i thought maybe carbon build up? I've spent the last year searching the web now and then and have found many things that sounded similar but nothing quite the same.. when it first started getting louder itd only be between 1500-2000 rpms... its not near as noticeable after 2000 rpms

i've had a unknown tick on mine since i've about 25,000 miles on it.....it kind of reminded me of the sound of a broken speedomoter......like you said you can hear a faint tick near the firewall around 1500 rpm's.....i've checked the valves on mine several times & exhaust manifold......i kind of gave up on it.....truck still drives great & doesn't seem to have any power issues....only thing i've always wondered about is i seem to get really bad gas mileage when just driving around town....probably only around 13-14mpg.....highway driving i seem to get around 17-18.....always wondered if it might be an injector issue, but i don't seem to get any rough idle or smoke at all unless it's on a cold start.....just figured i would stop worrying about it & just drive it... i was curious about something......does the onboard computer hold information like the max rpm's that have ever been reached on these trucks if that hasn't been cleared? i've always been interested in finding this out, but i figured you would have to have the dealer equipment to be able to pull that kind of information from it.....

[JOHNFAK]

I've got a sound that started over a year ago from inside the dash. (truck was still completely stock and 115k) At first I thought it was just something in the door pocket or glove box rattling.. it also was so faint i thought I might be hearing things...and I would only hear it at around 2000 rpms if I pressed the pedal (some days I wouldnt hear it though and then it'd come back confirming I hadnt been hearing things) It eventually got louder and louder til now it actually is really annoying but still its worse sometimes and sometimes I swear its gone (i thought it was gone all winter but it came back as it started warming up out) I've checked and fixed a leak from my turbo/downpipe connection but that didnt fix it. I'm highly doubting it to be the exhaust manifold and can't feel any exhaust escaping. The best idea I can come up with is my edge is effed and its being finicky with the timing... would that make any sense even though i did hear a slight noise barely before i had the edge it may not have been the same noise cuz it can be pretty loud now? I have some injectors on the way so i'm going to do a valve adjustment when i do the swap to see if that or the injectors help.. Not gaining oil So if anyone could give me any input on this issue I'd appreciate it... anything I should look for on the valves while there? Oh yea, and it only does it under load.. not idling or free revving for awhile i thought maybe carbon build up? I've spent the last year searching the web now and then and have found many things that sounded similar but nothing quite the same.. when it first started getting louder itd only be between 1500-2000 rpms... its not near as noticeable after 2000 rpms

Pull your programmer off and reset to stock and put in new injectors and do valve adjustment. Beyond that your going to have to try and get a better idea of the source of the sound .... Eg .. Exhaust side or drivers side engine ... Tranny or engine ... Etc ... And work from there ..

[Wild and Free]

Different injector tips and spray angles are why different HP and different makes and brands of injectors all have very different pop pressures. Most companies have vested much time and development into what pop pressure works best with the changes made to the tips for smoke control power mileage ect ect ect. What the stock injectors were are not the same as what any aftermarket injector is set to. Then you get into different thickness injector seal washers to make it even more precise. Little things make a huge difference.

[jlwelding]

W/F you mention washer thickness, what name brand washer are we looking for? What thickness are out there? Should we contact the company we bought injectors from to get the correct washers?

[Wild and Free]

W/F you mention washer thickness, what name brand washer are we looking for? What thickness are out there? Should we contact the company we bought injectors from to get the correct washers?

YES!

Usually they will come with the ones needed for close to stock engines. This becomes an issue with different pistons and with machined/decked blocks and heads when distance from pistons change and head gasket thickness differs ect. If the tip is too far from the piston you are spraying fuel on the cylinder walls or outside of the piston bowl on top of the outer circumference of the piston "This is normal for 2nd gens with after market injectors as the design of the bowl is really small" , too close to the piston you are spraying fuel in a concentrated spot on the piston which won't atomize correctly which can melt a hole in it. This can affect timing mileage and performace greatly.

[jlwelding]

I was about to move my DDP50's over into my new to me motor, I went down to injection rebuild shop and got some new copper washers.So I should wait and get new ones from DDP and not use these I just bought.Sorry for all the questions.

[cumminspower]

i have some injectors on the way right now that are set at 300bar so the injectors should be all set i'll make sure to get a pressure gauge but how exactly do i go through this process of checking the compression? and would you think maybe if the valve lash was getting out of adjustment that would have been the first more subtle tick sound i was hearing and then once i put the edge in and the adjustment got further out it could have bent a pushrod creating the louder definitely having issues sound? im just trying to get any foresight on the issue before i actually start jumping into it because i probably wont have a computer.... but then again you might be getting a call sometime next week when im in mid process lol

I was just wondering if you might have noticed any improvement after installing new injectors....I have the same weird tick in my truck & it's only noticeable under load around 1,500 rpm's....

[cumminapart]

unfortunately no it didnt fix the ticki didnt have time to check my valve lash however (yea i know it was all right there in front of me) and i'll be doing that by the end of this week as it warms up outside againi really think that has got to be the issue

[cumminapart]

well..... adjusted my valve lash today and they were pretty far out there.. thought for sure it was gonna cure itnope.. however it does accelerate soo much smoother nowstill have the noise but im really not going to worry about it.. probably an exhaust leak but i just can't pinpoint where it is ive checked all over the manifold several times but either way... it'll be alright for now it'll show itself eventually for now this ol cummins keeps ona tickin