How I should I add my Pressure Gauge and beyond

[jamman]

Hi guys,

I've got to get a fuel pressure gauge coming and put into this truck of mine. I'm not one to be constantly changing things for the fun of it. I need to build my truck up as it is my work truck and as such is my breadwinner and dependability is #1 for me. I'm going to have to add things in stages, as I'm sure the whole “things are tight” story is rather familiar. So I'm trying to think ahead and not waste effort. Let me explain what I *think* I've figure out and the route I think I'll take to get there and PLEASE give me all the feed back you want. I've been reading so many threads, the head is swimming.

I plan on a conservative approach. I think I would like some more power eventually as I need this for pulling a trailer with skidsteer and such. So, I need to add the pressure gauge NOW to make sure I'm not killing my VP44. (Gonna be running two stroke at 1oz/1gal) Next, I think I'll add the trans temp gauge to monitor my tranny while pulling. Then my EGT's next. Lastly, it's the boost I need to monitor, correct? I am also thinking of adding the Raptor 100 and plumbing it to the bowl like I read someone else has done. (Or should I just go to an AirDog 100?)

I plan to either put in an A-pilar gauge set or go with a computer to display all the other read outs. But I do not want to spend money twice.

I am looking at putting the fuel pressure gauge on the steering column. To do that, I am considering this pod to hold the actual gauge = http://www.genosgarage.com/prodinfo.asp?number=GM-DG-15012

Then as far as a gauge, I think I want the mechanical(tell me why I shouldn't? If I go with a computer later, is that going to be a problem?) so I am thinking of running this one from geno's http://www.genosgarage.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ISS-R5604R

To this, I realize that I need to go buy a needle valve from the auto store. Still learning where it needs to go, but trying to get my parts list together as well as the details.

Add to that, if I understand correctly, I need a bango bolt like this http://www.genosgarage.com/prodinfo.asp?number=BF-LONG-TAPPED to run this with. As I am thinking that I like the look of adding the raptor 100 to the system.

Also, am I needing to get this hose kit to connect to the fuel filter? http://www.genosgarage.com/prodinfo.asp?number=VULCAN-FH

Ok, I think that get's the ball rolling. What am I leaving out? Or is there an easier/better way than what I am talking about?

Shoot....just looked and “re-found” this post that I had forgotten about http://forum.mopar1973man.com/threads/4351-Need-help-setting-up-fuel-psi-gauge and am now have got myself confused. Maybe I won't be ordering this weekend. I may have to wait and talk to someone on Monday.

Thanks for all the help.

jamman

--- Update to the previous post...

Oh, very seriously thinking that I am going to need to add a pac-brake or Jacob's.

[Mopar1973Man]

First off I don't suggest locating the fuel pressure gauge on the steering column if the gauge is going to be direct plumbed. (Safety issue)

As for fuel plumbing... You can go to NAPA and pick up Polyon air brake line and it only 57 cents a foot.

 

 

While your there pick up a needle valve to dampen the water hammer pulses. Part number (WH6820) cost about $8 bucks. Nice part is if there is any problem just shut the valve. But typically the vavle is barely crack open so if there was a problem it would most likely just drip.

 

As with the Raptor fuel system you will not have a banjo fitting. You'll have to drop over to VulcanPerformance and either pick up a push loc tee like what I'm using or tapped JIC elbow. All of Raptor's plumbing is quick connect and there is no place to add fuel pressure gauge in the system. Not to mention the Raptor kit doesn't replace the last piece of line between the fiter and the VP44 which if you don't replace you'll complain of wild pressure swings because of the restriction of flow (banjos and the small line diameter).

Edited February 11, 2022 by Mopar1973Man

[dripley]

i would have to agree with Mike and what he is telling you. Vulcan performance can fix you up with anything you need to plumb in a fp gauge. the polyon mike is talking about is probably the best thing out there to plumb from the needle valve to the gauge. if you dont want to spend money twice and you are going to install a computer for the rest of the gauges,by all means do it and save some money. eshaust brakes are a very good add on also. if your are towing alot or not, they are great.

[Mopar1973Man]

eshaust brakes are a very good add on also. if your are towing alot or not, they are great.

Being I just put 187K miles on my stock brake pads... All Exhaust brake...

[jamman]

Sooo,Understood on getting the needle valve. But if I understand, dripley, you are saying that I should just buy the computer and install it and thus avoid paying twice. I know that will not be happening anytime soon. So maybe I do have to double spend. I think I really ought to have a pressure gauge as soon as possible to protect the vp44 until I can put in everything else. That being the case, should I go with the electric fuel pressure gauge so it can send the signal to the computer later? I don't know how you hook up physical probes to the computer. I had put that off, but I guess it's time to start looking at the computers and how they send the info.Am I getting the sense that the Raptor isn't a favored pump set up to you, Mike? Is that just because of the quick connects and not being able to plumb stuff into them? I guess I've read too many posts late at night and am not cataloging all of this in my head correctly.Thanks for the help guys.

[Mopar1973Man]

Well as for the AirDog line I've been seeing more and more problems concerning the plumbing issues. It gives you only one place to mount the pump because all the fitting are already crimped to the hoses and already pre-measured for a certain route.

New Style fittings...

Old school fittings...

Then if I wanted to move the pump to a new location I can because the push-loc fitting allow me to design it any way I wish where with crimp & quick connects you can not you forced to only there setup.

Like a local rancher out here got smart long ago and added a pre-filter before the stock lift pump. So when the stock pump died I told him to get a Raptor. What a mess... We ended up chopping up the entire hose setup buying more fitting because the location of the pump was in a bad spot being he use the truck off road. THen adding the prefilter to the plumbing, then adding a fuel pressure gauge on top... :banghead:

After than experience it left a very bad taste in my mouth...

Now from what I understand FASS kept the JIC & Push-loc fitting in there system they do cost a bit more but its worth it...

[jamman]

That's what I'm looking for, Mike. I asked for opinions and I got it. Thank you for that. I also like being able to put things where it needs to go and it isn't always the same so the crimped lines(although secure) are more limiting. Thus I will look into the FASS system further so as to compare. As I don't plan on making this a contender for magazines or pulling sleds, I was looking for a good dependable system but at a more affordable cost and thought the Raptor might more easily(read:painlessly on the wallet) get this poor schmuck there.

I've got a ton more questions. If I don't add the FASS/Air Dog right now, is there a simple way of plumbing the line so I can use it now for a fuel pressure gauge in the present, but utilize that line with the FASS/Air Dog? How about with a computer?

On the fuel pressure gauge(FPG), is the mechanical ok to run to anywhere else BUT the steering column, ie. A-pillar or on dash mount or cubby hole plate? Is there an advantage to the mechanical over the electronic other than cost? I'm always a little concerned about electronics burning out or having problems and mechanical still working as long as the engine is running, but I don't have a leg to stand on in this case. That's why I'm beating this to death and beyond.

I'm going to go re-look at all these posts and see if I can put this straight in my head. I'd like to just keep building upon my work instead of having to rip out and redo as I improve the system.

Again, THANK YOU to everyone helping me with this stuff and putting up with the basic questions.

--- Update to the previous post...

Oh, a little more on fuel pumps...Am I remembering incorrectly, but did I just see the basic pump of the raptor at geno's or something where you buy the pump and you have to plumb it? I guess I didn't realize the whole quick disconnect issue. I think I need to have a long talk with folks at these vendors.

[Mopar1973Man]

That's what I'm looking for, Mike. I asked for opinions and I got it. Thank you for that. I also like being able to put things where it needs to go and it isn't always the same so the crimped lines(although secure) are more limiting. Thus I will look into the FASS system further so as to compare. As I don't plan on making this a contender for magazines or pulling sleds, I was looking for a good dependable system but at a more affordable cost and thought the Raptor might more easily(read:painlessly on the wallet) get this poor schmuck there.

I've got a ton more questions. If I don't add the FASS/Air Dog right now, is there a simple way of plumbing the line so I can use it now for a fuel pressure gauge in the present, but utilize that line with the FASS/Air Dog? How about with a computer?

Well you could use a tapped banjo bolt and hook up the gauge...

On the fuel pressure gauge(FPG), is the mechanical ok to run to anywhere else BUT the steering column, ie. A-pillar or on dash mount or cubby hole plate? Is there an advantage to the mechanical over the electronic other than cost?

That's about it... Mechanical gauge tend to last much longer life span wise over electric gauges which tend to have sender fail over time.

I'm always a little concerned about electronics burning out or having problems and mechanical still working as long as the engine is running, but I don't have a leg to stand on in this case. That's why I'm beating this to death and beyond.

I'm going to go re-look at all these posts and see if I can put this straight in my head. I'd like to just keep building upon my work instead of having to rip out and redo as I improve the system.

Again, THANK YOU to everyone helping me with this stuff and putting up with the basic questions.

--- Update to the previous post...

Oh, a little more on fuel pumps...Am I remembering incorrectly, but did I just see the basic pump of the raptor at geno's or something where you buy the pump and you have to plumb it? I guess I didn't realize the whole quick disconnect issue. I think I need to have a long talk with folks at these vendors.

With any fuel system it going to most likely replace all the plumbing. But if you just trying to save a few nickles you could buy a big line kit from Vulcan performance and then get a cheaper lift pump like AirTex or simular. But the problem is the cheaper pump typically have a limited warranty. But its still a option.

As for gauges I personal prefer the mechanic gauges over electronic gauges. Mechanical gauge react instantly to changes like a sticking regulator valve will show up on a mechanical gauge with sudden drp and rises kind of flicking movement but a digital gauges tend to be late and slow to update. Electric gauge might do really good too but they tend to loose there accuracy over time as the rheostat sender wears out.

[dripley]

Sooo, Understood on getting the needle valve. But if I understand, dripley, you are saying that I should just buy the computer and install it and thus avoid paying twice. I know that will not be happening anytime soon. So maybe I do have to double spend. I think I really ought to have a pressure gauge as soon as possible to protect the vp44 until I can put in everything else. That being the case, should I go with the electric fuel pressure gauge so it can send the signal to the computer later? I don't know how you hook up physical probes to the computer. I had put that off, but I guess it's time to start looking at the computers and how they send the info. Am I getting the sense that the Raptor isn't a favored pump set up to you, Mike? Is that just because of the quick connects and not being able to plumb stuff into them? I guess I've read too many posts late at night and am not cataloging all of this in my head correctly. Thanks for the help guys.

what i was trying to say was if you want the computer for the gauges why spend the money on the mechanical ones. i pesonally have the mechanical ones because i really did not want to mess with a computer to use them. mine are in the a piller, i drilled a small hole in the piller mount below the fp gauge to let me know if a leak develops. with the pyro and boost gauge there they are easy to see. it is pretty much a personal choice as to how you would like your truck to be set up. i also installed an ADII on mine, which was alot more than i need. i felt if i ever wanted to add alot of horsepower i would already be covered. the life time warranty was a major plus. with the plumbing supplied the mounting location is pre detirmined. the location suited me since i mainly drive on the highway, unlike Mike who does alot of off road. i do like Mikes location. it is well protected, that is why i am going to make a sheild for mine later. if i am not mistanken you can just buy the raptor and plumb it yourself. Vulcan performance could help you with what ever you needed. the raptor pump should be more than enough for your stock truck and alot of people use them successfully

[jamman]

Thanks again, guys. I know that we are basically replumbing the system, but I didn't feel like plumbing for the gauge and then re-plumbing for the electric gauge, etc.Part of why I've considered the computer is the tuning but also the neatness factor, as in tidiness. I like everything together. I had even looked at my overhead sunglass holder and garage door holder panel in the center and wondered about mounting up there so it was a quick glance and out of the way.To make sure I understand completely, right now, to have an immediate fuel pressure gauge, I can run a tapped banjo bolt to the fuel filter housing. (There should be an existing bolt that the banjo replaces, no?) Put the needle valve in the tapped banjo bolt, run the line to the FPG that I've mounted in the cab, somewhere OTHER than the column. This will get my vp44 covered with a gauge. Then I can re-examine this thing and determine what I want to do. I've got more to think on.Does that sound like I've got this right for the moment?

[IBMobile]

I put 4 gauges on the A post with the (from top to bottom) egt, trans temp, and fp gauge in the A post cover, and the boost gauge on the left bottom screwed to the side. I wish I knew how to put photos on here.

[jamman]

I am very interested in seeing what you have done with your A-pillar. So let me help you put the photos on here.Go get a photobucket account. It couldn't be easier. Sign up, then take the picture off your computer and upload it to the site( it should have some directions) then it will have the link info right there on/next to the photo. Copy and paste it into a reply on here and it will show up.Now, if you are using a regular cell phone, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe send them to your email address, then save them to your computer?Looking forward to seeing the photos!

[IBMobile]

Thanks for the info. I'm not very good with these things but I'll give it a try tonight with a camera.

[jamman]

No problem, IBMobile! I am just very curious to see your setup. I was thinking of avoiding all the gauges right there in the open for everyone to see, but it looks like the most reasonable application I wonder how folks like/feel about the dashmount gauge setup.I will check later. The wife is still working on dinner, so I may be able to run out and fool with the wastegate on my truck and test it out.Talk to you soon.

[dripley]

Thanks again, guys. I know that we are basically replumbing the system, but I didn't feel like plumbing for the gauge and then re-plumbing for the electric gauge, etc. Part of why I've considered the computer is the tuning but also the neatness factor, as in tidiness. I like everything together. I had even looked at my overhead sunglass holder and garage door holder panel in the center and wondered about mounting up there so it was a quick glance and out of the way. To make sure I understand completely, right now, to have an immediate fuel pressure gauge, I can run a tapped banjo bolt to the fuel filter housing. (There should be an existing bolt that the banjo replaces, no?) Put the needle valve in the tapped banjo bolt, run the line to the FPG that I've mounted in the cab, somewhere OTHER than the column. This will get my vp44 covered with a gauge. Then I can re-examine this thing and determine what I want to do. I've got more to think on. Does that sound like I've got this right for the moment?

if i am not mistaken the scharder valve at the vp is screwed into a tapped banjo bolt. if i am right you could remove the schrader valve and in stall a needle valve there for the time being until you figure out what you want to do. be aware that the water hammer form the pump will be very storng at theis location and the needle valve will need to be barely cracked open. if your gauge starts fluctuating you need to close the vale more. i have mine tapped into the big line kit between the fuel canister and the vp. the valve is barely cracked open. Mike has a good video on here about how the gauge should react when you crank the truck. the gauge will take a couple of seconds to reach pressure when open properly.

[jamman]

Hi dripley,Thanks for that. I'll go watch that video again. I think I saw that. Is there a benefit of running a big hose kit from the fuel filter back and somehow tying into that back closer to the fuel tank while I make my final decision?Thanks!

[98whitelightnin]

I wouldnt buy that gauge from Geno's as it comes with an isolator you dont need. You should be able to find the same isspro gauge without the isolator for around $40. I have had my mechanical gauge on my column for several years with no problems but I dont use the tilt wheel regularly. I have less than $125 total in my fuel pressure gauge settup including, gauge, column mount, tubing, banjo bolt and needle valve. I also have a quadzilla commander for the rest of my gauges but would eventually like to get the rest in the mechanical flavor.

[stodg73]

Here is a pic of mine, it is a triple mount with a 3-in-1 from GloShift in the middle.

[dripley]

Hi dripley, Thanks for that. I'll go watch that video again. I think I saw that. Is there a benefit of running a big hose kit from the fuel filter back and somehow tying into that back closer to the fuel tank while I make my final decision? Thanks!

go to vulcand performance .com and look for the big line kit. that is what i installed so i could use the oe fuel canister. i still wanted the water in fuel warning light and the fuel heater to function. it is installed between the fuel canister and the vp. alot of guys by pass that when they install there fuel system. i just chose not to fpor the reasons above. if you just want toget a quick fp gauge installed look and see if you cannot just remove the shcrader vave and tap into that for the gauge. you can do that for a ittle bit of nothing while you are deciding what to do. the fuel ine from the filter back can wait untill you decide. 98white is right you can buy the gauge without the isolater and save money. the needle valve replaces the isolater. that is why it is important to barely crack it open.

[jamman]

Ok, this is some great stuff coming down the pike here. I definitely like upgrading the lift pump, but not right now. But there are some good looking gauge setups here. I really appreciate the waving me off from wasting money on parts I don't need.

I did not know there were 3-in-1 gauge sets out there. That is cool. I'm guessing that has to be electronic, or at least the other two parts of the gauge are as they are digital read out.

VERY cool replies. Thanks guys.

--- Update to the previous post...

I was looking at vulcanperformance at the gauges at this page

http://www.vulcanperformance.com/EV-Series-Mechanical-s/199.htm

and I'm not seeing that they offer it as a gauge only. I must be daft.

But I did find it over at dieselmanor

http://www.dieselmanor.com/isspro/r5604r_ev_fuelpress.asp

It seems that folks have had good experiences with vulcan, so if I'm missing it somehow, please point it out.