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AH64ID

Smarty UDC!!

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When I heard about EFI live being build for the Dodge I was tickled to death but then learned later on that EFI Live figure the VP44 technology is just too old to deal with so it never going to be done... :banghead:I would love to have that kind of flexiblity in programming the ECM and VP44... Wow could you imagine the tunes a person could actually do if he's got the proper talent. :wow: Then in the same token imagine how may people would blow up enginnes and make smoke tunes. :soap:

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Then in the same token imagine how may people would blow up enginnes and make smoke tunes. :soap:

I hear CF is still that way!!!!!:duh::cookoo:

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I went over and download the demo software and played for a moment andd I'm truely impressed. http://www.madselectronics.com/DownloadUDC.html The sample file included with the demo happens to be a Common Rail of some sort but the fact you can change up all the timing curves, fueling amounts, etc... This is truely a awesome tuner. This really worth it for the common rails I'm curious how the the 24V's will work... :rolleyes:

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Im glad that I saw this on here!! I downloaded the demo but I cant wait for it to come out so I can play around with it and smooth everything out.

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Posted by Marco on CompD

Hey Gang, I have not had much time in the past months to post or let's alone say read the forums. Too much stuff all at the same time in the pipeline. Sorry 'bout that. As you can see, even though I'm silent, we're not sitting on our hands. A few things that I would like to point out about the UDC. I think the most important news with the UDC is that you not only get a tool but you get also professional help in using the tool to get the tuning right. AKA, the (stock) parameters that you modify with the tuning software are NOT written into a stock software! Your modifications are written into my " base software"! WTH the base SW is? That's the software I use in all my tuning. In other words, the tweaked / performance oriented stock software which is the base for all Smarty tunes. All limiting factors like for example the boost / torque / limiters ( simple stupid examples there are hundreds of parameters tweaked in the base software ) are already taken care of. You don't have to fiddle with them. I already did the legwork for ya. Example, when the 6.7L first came out, it took me over 2K dyno runs to optimize that "base SW". That's been well worth my time tho The result is that the power can now be taken anywhere by tweaking in the Duration / RP / Timing. This is where your modifications land in Smarty.... Since it's time to open up my smallish box where I keep my lil secrets in... I have turned off the late injection event in all my softwares since late 2005 / early 2006. The late injection event is OFF by default in all my softwares since then. 'Nough said? OK, gotta admit, in a couple SW releases I had forgotten to turn it off. I guess nobody really noticed it. Oh yeah, I've heard that fantasy a lot of times...turning off the late one gains a fantazillion in mileage. Now you know the (real world) answer to that. Hint, when you read " Load " , think it as Throttle Position and everything will become ( much ) easier to tune 'n understand. Cheers, Marco

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I am currently beta testing UDC, and working up a tow tune for my Jr.

The software is easy to use, and not to complicated. I won't get to try the tune until Friday, but am looking foreword to it.

Here is a shot of my timing vs stock timing.

--- Update to the previous post...

Posted Image

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Is that a topo of the rockies over the blue ridge? Some times i just dont know what to say about the things some of you guys post. It is so far over my head it is rediculous. I mean no disrepect to anyone and hope you keep posting this kind of info because I have learned from some of it and other things are just way over my head. I cannot believe how much i have learned and I do have the utmost respect for every one here, they all seem to contribute in what ever way they can and thats what makes this place stand out from all the others. Thanks for letting me be apart of it.

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Well I think I have the tune ready to load in the truck tomorrow. I made some more changes to the timing map, but nothing you can really see. I didn't play too much with duration, everything is within ±2% of stock. The wastegate is setup for 38psi, which I won't hit right now and it doesn't really matter as I have to reinstall the boost solenoid next week, then adjust the WG down to about 20-22psi and let the solenoid work. I added a little tq management on bottom end (dirt/ice) and took a little out on the top, we shall see what it does.

All in all the software is easy to use and works well.

I'll let you all know how the tow trip goes.

--- Update to the previous post...

Here are some shots of stock tables. The axis' are rpm, load %age, and the other is based on the table. PSI for Rail, degrees for timing, miliseconds for duration, psi for wastegate. These are from my 05 stock file (except rail pressure, but it's from a 04.5-07).

It's amazing that even thou the stock truck will pull 30-32 psi of boost the WG is set to open at 25 psi.

Timing (you can see why they run so HOT, and don't get as good of fuel mileage, and that the timing is based off of emissions).

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Rail pressure (not very smooth)

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Duration (nothing fancy, the more pressure you run the shorter the duration)

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Wastegate

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Played with a couple of tunes this weekend. Truck is really running great, and tows amazing! I was pulling hills about 50-100° lower than the standard tune, and at a lower load. It seems like the mileage is up a little too, but too early to tell. My pyro is on the fritz and started reading about 100-200° high towing home yesterday, so I'll have to wait for the new one to do more testing. But while it appeared to be working I went WOT in 5th gear, 2200rpms, 15-15.5K GCW, up a 8-9% grade. I ran from 2200-2700 rpms. Boost peaked at 32 (same) and EGT's peaked at 1210 (down about 50°) and the truck felt stronger. I didn't get to see DP/rail pressure but will pay more attention next time. Very happy with UDC so far.

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I had an unexpected chance to dyno today. Last time I dyno'd was in 08 with the JR on SW3, stock turbo, and stock cam.

The new graph is much smoother! This is smoothing on zero. The below numbers are uncorrected, the corrected numbers are 414/850. I am impressed how flat the torque curve is, and how consistent the numbers were on runs 2 and 3. Run #1 was PoD on 70, I was curious how it effected WOT power, and it's pretty obvious. Run #2 was PoD on 85, which is were I run normally and my gauges told me it was the same power as PoD99, which I was able to verify. The throttle and power are smoother on PoD85 when towing, and the smoke is also down a little (not that it really smokes anyhow).

My previous dyno was 387/712 (437/808), so I am down a few hp but up quite a bit of torque. For how I use the truck this is just fine, and I won't be looking for that lost hp.

My timing is pretty tame, peak about 20°. I am sure that I could get more power from timing, but I do plenty of towing with the truck and want to be on the safe side.

Smoothing 0, Uncorrected

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Smoothing 2, Corrected

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AH64ID...................I've had a good amount of math, geometry, pre-calculus, etc. but I still cannot figure out how to read those 3 dimensional graphs you post.:duh::ashamed:Can you help a guy out???:smart::hyper:

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They are easier to read in the demo software, since you can rotate them. But what the graph shows, timing for example, is the amount of timing BTDC in relationship to rpms and load. So on the stock timing map you can see that timing doesn't increase with rpms/load across the board. There are some very retarded points in the middle of the map where drivers spend a lot of time. In general terms what you want to see is timing increase with load/rpms so that your peak pressure is at about the same point. So as you add fuel you have to inject sooner, and as you increase piston speed you have to inject sooner.

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basically, his 3D maps are just a fancy one of these (this from my 500whp Subaru when I was tuning it with OpenSource..)

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I haven't updated this in a while.. Here are some past updates...

From 9/10/12

So it's been a while since I really gave any update, other than the dyno graph. Truth is that I didn't adjust my tuning for 2 months. I was very happy with it. It met all of my goals for how I was using it. Last week I did some towing and realized I needed to tweak the settings in the 35-55% load area. I was towing across Idaho at 2K rpms, OD, at 18K GCW (11' tall TT) into a 20-30 mph headwind on a 90° day. I realize that sustained operation in that load range gave me slightly higher EGT's than expected. I know a few degrees comes from the manifold blankets, but I was at 1000-1150° the whole time, and may have cooled off to 900° on the few shallow down-grades. I didn't have my laptop with me, but took some mental notes. On the return trip the temp was about 15° cooler, and I didn't have a head wind and the load was lower, and the temps where where I expected them to be. I know I am not going to be able to move that weight at those speeds at 900-1000° with a headwind, but wanted to make a small tweak.

I went back to my timing tables and thought I could add a little and see what happened. I had ran more timing previously and it hazed a little too much, but this time I tried even more. Still very mild. I haven't hooked up the trailer yet, but in the 30-50% load my EGT's are down a little, boost is similar, and the haze is similar to the more retarded setting. I get some haze in the "passing" region because the EGT's are low and the turbine isn't as efficient. When towing there is zero haze at those loads because there is more heat to be retained in the turbine.

I also got to looking at my cruise section of the timing table. I think there was a little room to improve on mpgs. This morning driving to work I did some testing with the lie-o-meter. I have been using 1600 rpms as the start of my "cruise/economy" region. I set the cruise at 1400 rpms on a flat road and reset the lie-o-meter, it instantly read ±38 mpgs, and settled in the 34 range. I then accelerated to 1600 rpms and did the same thing. It instantly read ±29 mpg and settled at ±28. I realize it's not 100% accurate, but 10 mpg difference for 3-4 mph? I thought maybe I had too much timing in the cruise region and was working against myself. I retarded the timing a bit and went back out. This time the 1400 reading was ±37 and the 1600 was ±36. So I think I am on the right track. The timing is still advanced for economy, but not so much that I am working against myself.

I have my first empty highway run for about 110 miles this afternoon, so time will tell.

I am coming out of towing season, so I won't really know if I like this new 35-55% region for a while, but that's tuning for you.

I also spent last week driving around Yellowstone. The elevation is 6400-8800. I was there last year and had to be very careful not to make a LOT of smoke on the standard Smarty Jr SW3 tune. This year there was hardly any, even if I got on it (kids like to hear the turbo whistle) the smoke was no where near as think and cleared very quick. The only difference from last year to this year is the UDC and a GDP Air Boss/Grid Delete. I would guess most of the smoke, or lack thereof, is the tuning. I did get 18.9 mpg driving around Yellowstone for the week, at about 9000 lbs. I got about 18.0 last year.

From 11/17/12

Another update...

I did that 110 mile run at 70-80 and got 19.2, so I think backing the timing off a little really helped. I have since bumped it back a tiny tiny bit and the load went down, so I am happy.

I have still been messing with that 30-50% load area, trying to find a good timing for spool, but also one I can hold sustained when towing and not have too hot of EGT's. I won't hook the trailer up again for a few months but I am pretty happy with how it works now. EGT's are down a little and no increase in spool time.

I have also decided to upgrade to a Smarty Sr. I don't want/need any more power than I am making now, but I really don't like the OEM rail pressure map. I think it should be smoother, and not have peaks and valleys in the middle of it. A smoother rail pressure map means smoother timing, less rapid FCA changes, pressure changes, etc. Since I built my own timing calculator I have already got a tune ready to plug into UDC when the Sr shows up. It keeps the same duration, and relative timing that I have now, but a very different rail pressure map. I am curious how it will effect everything.

From 11/17/12

Timing is a function of pulse width (duration) and rpm. Each load %age and rpm should have a different timing value.

Looking at some of the UDC samples timing is the same from 68.9% thru 100%. In a racing application that may be okay as they go from 20% to 100%, and don't spend much time between 70% and 90%, but if you tow I don't think flat timing is good. The pulse width at 70% is a lot shorter than WOT, so the effective timing is much greater, so at 70% load you will have higher piston temps, higher cylinder pressure, etc than at 100% load. Each load needs it's own timing. As pulse width increases timing must increase to keep the same relative (% before TDC and % after TDC) timing.

On my truck that high timing from 1000-1400 really is noisy. I dropped it way back. I don't have my Dongle with me, but I recall being around -3° at 12.6% load at 1000 rpms.

Generally speaking 1000-1400 (0-50% load) is spool region , this is the only place on my timing map I run less timing than the factory. Above 50% load here isn't obtained often, but I generally advance from 50% to WOT a few degrees. 1600-2400 0-30% is the cruise region, mainly up thru 25%, I use 25.1 as a transition and am completely out of the cruise timing at 31.4%. Now you are in the acceleration/spool/hill mode. I back the timing off to reduce piston temp, increase exhaust volume for turbo spooling, and still make good power. This is the hardest part to tune (32.4-100) because what works for spool may not be good for towing a trailer at 40% load for hours on end, so you have to mess with it to find the best spot. At these rpms the entire timing map can be used, especially if you tow. 2600-redline, this is the passing, racing, playing zone. My low load timing is not increased here (but how often are you 10-50% load in these rpms, this is the zone where you will be dumping fuel and need the power. Timing is critical because of piston speed, it's easy to go too far or too little. With stock duration/pressure I would stick to about 19° max at WOT/3200 and 22° max at WOT/3500.

One last thing, on the duration map Marco has rpms/load as the labels. That should be rail pressure and volume, as the duration map has nothing to do with rpms. The ECM uses rail pressure and desired fuel (load) to determine the pulse width. So that 100% 3600 rpm block can be applied at much less than 3600 rpms. This is needed if you create your own timing calculator.

IMHO it should look like this... Load on top, pressure on left.

Posted Image

So at 100% load and 23,206 (peak OEM rail pressure) the injector is open for 2005 micro seconds. The way a timing calculator works is you take that 2005 micro seconds, the deg/sec of the crank, and when you want to inject the fuel (say 50% before TDC/50% after TDC) and you get the timing needed. So at 2000 rpms it take 83us to go 1°. So 1002.5/83 is 12.07, or 12.1° of timing is what you need. At 3000 rpms it only takes 56us to go 1°, so you need 17.9° to get the same 50% of fuel injected BTDC.

Obviously the duration map is not all inclusive, so you will have to do the same extrapolation the ECM does if you want to calculate all your timing. You can calculate all the timing, some of it (I would work 100% load at a minimum so you know where you should max), or none of it...

I don't think you can create a mash it without smoke tune that is reasonable on UDC, simply because we don't have access to the boost/fuel limiter table. So the base tune may allow more fuel than we can burn smoke-free, and mashing will do that. But you can play with your torque management to get it there. I also found reducing the PoD to 85 really helped and didn't effect power at all. Even aggressive driving I am black smoke free (just a haze), but if I go from 20% to 100% throttle in an instant than I roll some serious coal.

Happy tuning....

Here is a timing map I made (and have severely altered) but it gives you a GENERAL idea of flow. Numbers are irrelevant without knowing pressure/duration.

Posted Image

From 11/22/12

Well I got my Smarty Sr yesterday, so instead of sleeping I stared at UDC all night. I had already built a tune in the timing calculator, so I just had to copy it over (really want a copy/paste function). I made some minor tweaks once I could see it in the UDC map (Excel graphs aren't as easy to read/manipulate) and it's done.

With my new rail pressure map the timing map is smother.

Here is the timing with the stock pressure.

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Here is my current timing, as you can see less minor peaks within the map, all based on pressure.

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As I have said before without knowing what my pressure/duration tables look like the timing numbers are irrelevant.

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