New to Cummins, need some possible fuel diagnostics

[02cumminsdude]

I see... Well I didn't order a drawstraw and when I spoke to Jason at dieselautopower, he told me that the AirDog 100 would be an easier install for me and support more power than I would ever need (based on what I told him), without needing a drawstraw. So if I can get away with just using the factory in-tank setup, I'll do that for starters. If I have issues, it shouldn't be too difficult to go back and add a drawstraw. At this point I'm just excited to get my truck up and running again. I ordered the Edge Juice last night, which is only adding to it. Just need a needle valve now, which I might just pickup from Ace Hardware or a plumbing shop...

[flagmanruss]

On the draw straw, a lot of people don't realize how much the bottom of the tank flexes. I they measure with it sitting on the shop floor and install to fit perfectly then when the tank is suspended & flexes down, the pickup will be short. To correctly measure, the tank must be supported by the edges. There's another 1/4 tank issue, also. The screens in the OEM in tank filter basket will not flow 150 gph. The pickup & return must both be in or out of the basket or the screens must be modified. What can happen with a pickup in the basket (screens in) but return outside, in high draw circumstances, the fuel level in the basket can be sucked down & if the fuel level in the tank is lower than the top of the basket, the lift pump can draw air even though there is fuel in the tank... because the OEM basket screens just can't flow enough. If you buy a drawstraw kit, they will supply the parts & instructions to do the install correctly. If you cobble one together out of parts... it can be done... but you have to watch for these pitfalls that others have learned the hard way.

[dripley]

My truck had the intank pump. My ADII came with a kit to replace the that pump. Part of the kit modified the basket for a bigger pick up line and the return line from the pump dumps in the basket and not the filler neck. I am not saying this is the best set up, there are to things about it I am not sure of. one is the pickup is 2 pieces clamped together, the other is when the tank is low I am mainly running on return fuel I would think. Not really sure if that is bad for anything but I am sure that fuel is warmer than what i would be pulling from the tank.After my install I rode around with a 5 gallon can of fuel just incase mine develoded the 1/4 tank problem. but after running mine almost bone dry(34 or 35 gallon refill) I quit worrying about it.Two thing I like about Mikes draw straw is the slots he has cut in it instead of cutting at an angle and how close he has it to the bottomof the tank. Seems to me if you cut it on an angle and to steep the opening is even higher of the bottom of the tank makin it easier to suck air in. Especially if you are driving like you stole it.

[02cumminsdude]

Will the factory screens flow 100gph? Remember I had my order switched from the AD150, down to the 100, for just that reason... it requires less installation and parts, but will still support easily any power I will make with my Edge Juice.

[dripley]

The screens will let in alot of fuel. 100gph? i dont know. I would install what you have coming and see what happens. Since you will be useing the oe basket and connections you dont need to drop the tank. If performance is not what hoped for, or you have the quarter tank issue then buy the draw straw and install it. Meanwhile carry some spare fuel just in case. You should know pretty quick how well it is going to work.

[02cumminsdude]

Yeah, I've always got a 5 gallon diesel can with me. To be honest, at this point, I'm sure I will be very satisfied. I've been watching videos of guys starting their diesels, and I hear the LP's running very clearly. I've owned this truck for about 3 weeks and NOT ONCE have I heard my LP run. Until the day it shut down, some kind of buzzing noise came out of it. Guess I've been driving gas motors too long and didn't know what to listen for. So I suspect my VP44 has been fueling the truck alone ever since I owned it. It will probably feel like a different truck once I get it fixed up. Not only that, but my damper was very wobbly and I've got a Fluidampr on the way for that. New waterpump, t-stat, coolant flush, engine oil/filter, fuel filter and new pumps should make this truck run like I've never known it to lol. Not to mention the Juice. I'm afraid to do the math and add up how much money I have spent on parts, fluids and tools in the past week and a half. Must be damn near $3000. I hope I don't have to touch anything for a LOONG time after this... other than basic maintaining obviously.

[dripley]

The only time I have ever heard my pump run is when the engine is off. I atribute that to 2 things, one my ears, 2 not sure on this one but I think it is the Cummins. Ifeel your pain on the monery,VP ECM ADII alternator water pump fornt wheel bearings. I did get to drive it the first 8 years pretty much trouble free though and itsi running great now. I did have a injector problem about 4 months ago and put a new set of rv275's in. Less than $400 and got more power and mpg. You ought to keep that one in the back of your mind.

[02cumminsdude]

Haha yes the good ole injectors. I told my brother about the problems I was having and he said a guy he talked to in Delaware works on diesels and see's quite a few injector problems. I've got my fingers crossed on them for now, but I suppose I will find out their condition once the fuel actually making to them again. But I will keep those injectors in mind just in case, thanks.

--- Update to the previous post...

And BTW, when I said I never heard my LP, I mean NEVER. When I turned the key on and sat for the wait-to-start, I never heard the pump under me running. Only some noise under the hood and some whining from my crappy Glowshifts...

[dripley]

Just so you know after you get all of it installed that when you just turn the key on the lift pump should not run for more than a couple seconds. Mine only bumps for maybe half a second. If you bunp the starter it wll run for about 25 seconds then shut down.

[02cumminsdude]

Well maybe it did run then. I guess if only cuts on for a second or so, I could of missed it. Either way, hopefully what I'm doing starts it. If not, I'm back at square one, but with a reliable long-lasting fuel setup at least. I'll just have to keep telling myself that to feel better hah.

[Mopar1973Man]

Will the factory screens flow 100gph?

No... 1/4" ID (6 mm) pipe will only flow roughly 75 GPH and the fitting on the sender is small and restrictive. When I got my AD150 I cheated because I had to travel ASAP and did have the time to install the draw straw. I was having serious issues with fuel pressure and just keeping the pressure up even with 1/2" line hose clampped to the stock sender.

As for most people I talk to even with drawstraws inside the stock sender still have problems with the pump drawing out fuel quicker than it can be replenished...

But that's what I know...

[02cumminsdude]

No... 1/4" ID (6 mm) pipe will only flow roughly 75 GPH and the fitting on the sender is small and restrictive. When I got my AD150 I cheated because I had to travel ASAP and did have the time to install the draw straw. I was having serious issues with fuel pressure and just keeping the pressure up even with 1/2" line hose clampped to the stock sender. As for most people I talk to even with drawstraws inside the stock sender still have problems with the pump drawing out fuel quicker than it can be replenished... But that's what I know...

What you know is far greater than anything I know lol. I'm still learning everything I can right now. As far as the stock sender, it will have to do for now as long as it actually functioning like it should. It will be just my luck to have all these problems caused by that ONE part that I didn't replace... I will find out soon enough, but as of now, money has become an issue and I can't really afford to buy anything else "just to be sure". If it works like it should now, it stays, if not, I will scramble for the dough to replace it. But I've just about maxed out what I can spent in the near future.

[dripley]

I think the only reason I dont have issues with pulling all the fuel out of my basket is both return lines feeding fuel to it. The intank basket on mine is alot differant than your oe one. not as much area for the fuel to come in due to the intank pump design.Mike is definately right about the small line you will connect to and it might cause a larger drop in pressure when you get on it. Just something to watch out for when its all installed.

[02cumminsdude]

I know I'm sounding like a noob, but let me just get this straight. Are we only talking about when the tank gets low for all these issues? Or since I'm installing the AD100 to the factory sending unit, will the pressure drop more under WOT no matter how much fuel is in the tank? Not that it makes a huge difference to me personally, since I don't tow anything really and only occasionally get on it hard just to have a little fun. I'm just trying to prepare myself for what I should be seeing when the truck is running again to prevent future problems.

[bh115577]

The other guys know a lot more about this stuff than I do but I recently installed an AD100. No 1/4 tank issues and only drop 3 psi at WOT running through the stock filter housing and the stock small line from the housing to the VP.

[02cumminsdude]

The other guys know a lot more about this stuff than I do but I recently installed an AD100. No 1/4 tank issues and only drop 3 psi at WOT running through the stock filter housing and the stock small line from the housing to the VP.

[bh115577]

Not too bad of an install. The hardest part for me was removing the stock line at the top of the tank. I have bad shoulders and trying to twist myself between the frame and fender to get at the connection was tough. If you decide to cut out the excess hose from the new line that comes with it, warm up the ends with hot water before trying to push in the splices. I just used wd-40 and it was a serious fight. Someone here supplied that tip and I really wish I would have asked before the install. I've only got stock injectors and an Edge EZ so the psi drop may be different for you with what you are adding.

[02cumminsdude]

Thanks for the tip man. I'm doing it this week when the parts come in, so I'm trying to get as informed as possible before then so it goes smooth. I'm sure I'll be posting up again if I have some trouble, this site has been great for getting quick help with things.

[JOHNFAK]

Which brings us to the next part of the thread which pump combo to go with? Future plans include: AEM intake, Edge Juice w/Attitude, slightly larger injectors (maybe 50's) and a slightly upgraded turbo. And just to clarify, I plan on driving around with mileage tune, not high power levels ALL the time. Better turbo simple to handle the power without failures. Any suggestions a good setup?

[02cumminsdude]

Well I'm slowly losing hope. Finished up the installs today. Still won't start. It's not even getting fuel to the VP. I bumped the starter probably 10 times, then cranked repeatedly for about 10 seconds, then bumped it again a couple times. Am I not bleeding the system correctly? I left the 1,2,4 injector lines loose where they meet the block. Then I opened the overflow on the VP for a little. Am I supposed to keep them pretty tight at first so pressure can build?

--- Update to the previous post...

In case anyone wants some more detail: I've installed, new t-stat, waterpump, Fluidampr, VP44, Airdog100 and partially an Edge Juice. By partial I mean everything is hooked up except the MAP sensor and the power wires, so it's basically just sitting in there not bothering anything for now. And yes the AirDog is working, just not pulling any fuel up to the VP.