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02cumminsdude

Acceleration still not completely smooth

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Hey guys, I have been having some issues with my truck under acceleration for a while now and need some help diagnosing it. My sig is current, and I have just replaced batteries, cleaned connections and coated with oil today. Before the battery swap I was having VERY noticeable surging under acceleration when cold, and it even started doing it while the motor was operating temps. I also had my interior and exterior lights flickering slightly while driving and was getting a CCD reading from the overhead off and on while driving. I drove it several times today after the batteries and I have no more flickering lights or CCD light so far. The choppy acceleration has gone away for the most part, however, it is still there sometimes even when I've been driving at operating temps for a while. Seems to mainly happen in 2nd and 5th gear the most noticeable, but also in 6th while lightly accelerating sometimes. Should I try resetting the APPS? Could the small fuel leak at the back the head be causing a lack of fuel at certain times? I would think since it's the return line, it would not affect the actual injection? Any ideas?

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If you can have it happen on a highway, put the cruise control on and see if it still does it :shrug:

I'll give that a try today.

CCD Network problems.

http://articles.mopar1973man.com/general-cummins/34-engine-system/81-ccd-data-bus

As the CCD network is failing the commnunication will other devices fail too. Soo like RPM data for the PCM to tell the alternator to charger or not (your flickering lights).

So you think I could still be having CCD issues even though the CCD light hasn't come on yet since I changed batteries? Also, the lights don't flicker while driving anymore. I have a scan tool but I don't know if it's like the one mentioned in the article, I think mine is an Actron auto scanner.

- - - Updated - - -

Well I went out today and reset the APPS, at least, I THINK I did... key on, slowly press pedal to floor and slowly release right? Anyways, I'm not sure if the weather being in the low 70's today had anything to do with it, but the throttle was noticeably smooth as soon as I took off. I've had no CCD lights since I replaced the batteries yesterday either. Hopefully this is problem solved, however I should know for sure when it gets back down into the 50's where it was very noticeable. I'll keep updating in this thread if it returns.

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One thing that sticks out in my mind is when I installed the AFE, I broke the ground terminal from the battery to the body on the passenger side. I ended up finding a similar ring terminal in my little electrical kit and I had to crimp it on the ground wire. And actually after that install, the choppyness became worse. When I did my batteries yesterday, I pulled the wire off the terminal again. This time I put a little solder on the wire and crimped the hell out of it again. It is on there solid now. Maybe that could be part of the issue... not sure why it would go away after resetting the APPS then? I will also probably need to replace my battery terminal clamps at my next battery change, they look a little rough. As far as looking back at wiring, do you happen to have any names and locations of where to look? I am not very "electronically inclined" so I will need some guidance on where and what to look for. Thanks man

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Have you checked to see if you have latched any codes?

Haven't hooked up my scan tool yet, but I will. It's not doing it anymore so I am happy for now, but I will keep looking around jut to be sure I haven't only put a band aid on the issue.

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Well Mike, your suspicions were correct. Temps dropped into the low 50's tonight and the CCD popped up again for the first time since the battery change. Also getting a slight choppyness again, however not nearly as bad as before, although I suspect it will worsen. So the cool weather leads me to believe that a wire or ground somewhere is slowly deteriorating or just not supplying enough juice anymore, and the colder it gets, the smaller it gets, giving it even less of a connection. Maybe the ring terminal I used on the ground is not the proper type. I don't know but I would like to figure this one out before the temps drop into the 20's and 30's. I love that weather, just don't like working on vehicles in it :banghead:

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Got to remember the frost and moisture is collecting on everything so in the morning cold it could be weaking the connections. This might be other connectors like the PDC main plug or the CCD connector above the valve cover. Might double check them and add some di-electric grease to them.

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Each time I replace the batteries and periodically in between, I mix up a big plastic bowl or carton of hot water and as much baking soda as the solution will absorb and then a few more table spoons full to make a slurry on the bottom of the container. I mix it up really good and submerge both battery terminals in the baking soda solution until it stop fizzing. This allows the solution to migrate up the wires and neutralize any potential corrosion/acid. I also apply the solution to the battery tray bolts, battery hold down bolts and anything else that shows any signs or indications of exposure to battery acid vapors. When you apply the solution to anything with battery acid/corrosion on it you will notice the fizzing reaction as the baking soda neutralizes the acid. Once all the acid/corrosion is treated, I clean up all the connectors on each battery cable clamp, the batteries, spray So Sure Corrosion Prevention Compound http://www.drillspot.com/products/308864/Nib_8030-00-938-1947_Corrosion_Preventive_Compound_Aerosol_Spray LIBERALLY over ALL the battery tray and hold down hardware. You can use on the battery terminals too but I perfer to spray a battery terminal corrosion pretection spray which is similar but tinted purple and with added chemicals to neutralize acid as well as corrosion like CRC Battery Terminal Protector http://www.drillspot.com/products/343552/crc_industries_inc_03175_battery_terminal_protector or similar compound. It is a good idea to go over, disconnect, clean, treat, and reinstall any ground wires or straps as well. Hope this helps your problem. I recently did this with my truck when I changed the OEM original batteries about a month ago. The truck had become sluggish and smoked like a freight train but after changing the batteries and cleaning all the connectors up, the engine got its old pep and performance back and the smoking was almost eliminated. Not saying this will work in your case but it surely could not hurt, and may help improve or fix the problem.

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Redneck version of LiveOak idea is to keep everything coated with engine oil.

Reason... Think about it there is only 2 types of containers that battery acid is sold in.

[*]Glass

[*]Plastic - And plastic made of what? (Oil!) :wink:

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Redneck version of LiveOak idea is to keep everything coated with engine oil.

Go to a hardware store and get the dielectric grease that is Mandatory for use when using aluminum wire. The dielectric grease is thicker, will stay in place longer/better - and is designed to help facilitate good electrical contact AND prevent oxidation/degradation of mechanical joints. For example: http://stormgrounding.electrical-insulators-and-copper-ground-bars.com/no-ox-id.html?gclid=CMnNw_OzkLMCFWHZQgodeC0Alg At room temperature - the stuff has the consistency of vasoline grease. I have a 12 ounce squeeze bottle that I bought 20 years ago, and it is still more than half full! (It doesn't take much to protect a single connection. I use it in the house, but more so for wire connections on my cars.

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I actually don't drive the truck until the evening hours so morning dew/frost should be gone by then, but I will clean and grease those connectors you mentioned Mike, it can only help. What I did with my batteries was scrub off all corrosion with a small brush on anything that the battery terminals would be touching. Then used a brush to lightly coat the terminals and connections including my fuel pump and Juice power supply wires with the same oil I put into my truck, 15-40 Rotella. All this made a nice difference but did not solve the problem. It was only after I reset the APPS that it totally went away, but came back shortly after (about a day). Also the CCD has been coming back as well. If I don't get to look at everything today, I will most likely have to wait until next weekend and will post up then. In the meantime if anyone has anymore suggestions I am all ears, thanks guys.

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Well after my plans of going out this weekend and chasing wires got soiled by rain, I was reading through the articles here and watching videos here. I learned something that I never knew and I have strong feeling that I may have just fixed my problem without spending a dime... What I learned was, that after disconnecting batteries, you need to recalibrate the APPS sensor. Well, since spring when I replaced all my pumps, t-stat, damper, and installing all my goodies, I THINK I reset the APPS after all that, but I've had the battery disconnected at least twice since then for other things and never reset it. So, tonight I went out and PROPERLY reset it this time. Left batteries off for about 45 minutes, went back out and reset it, took it for a drive and WOW. The truck did not skip a beat. I haven't felt the truck drive this smooth since spring when I first picked it up. I reset the APPS before like I said, but didn't unhook the batts or anything. Tomorrow and all this week will be the real test with the temps going down in the 40's here, but I feel as though my problem will be solved and have my fingers crossed. I will update if anything changes.

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UPDATE: After two days of driving, the problem seems to be slowly returning. I will be as detailed as possible so maybe someone will know whats going on here. I have a feeling I know what it is now though. Mainly has been happening in 4th-6th gear but ONLY while I have a light toe on the throttle, or I am holding it steady. If I give it a good stepping, the truck runs smooth pulls hard. The best way I can describe it is that the truck "pulls itself" for a split second or so, as if I am not holding the throttle steady. It never cuts out, or loses power, just pulls itself. I did the key trick, no codes. I'm not sure if my Edge shows codes or not, I think it does since it plugs into the diagnostic port. But the Edge has never thrown a code either. Also, the fact that the issue goes away completely after resetting the APPS and slowly wiggles it's way back, leads me to believe that I probably don't have a corroded or bad connection anywhere on the truck. Here is another key that leads me to what I'm thinking: it does not do it when I put the cruise on, even when I accelerate with the cruise button. The rain is stopping me from going out and chasing wires this week, so I am trying to do anything I can right now. But I'm beginning to think my APPS itself may be at fault here. Am I totally off with that idea? I don't want to go chasing wires when it is not the problem. I mean, if I had a bad connection somewhere, it would not go away no matter how many times I disconnect the batts or reset the APPS, I would have to physically find and fix the connection. So this is my theory as of now, so if anyone has any reason to shoot it down, please let me know what else could be going on. Sorry for the long post but I want to give you guys as much info as possible in hopes that someone may have had this problem before or at least knows whats going on. Thanks guys

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i dont have the answer, but if the cruise is working fine it would point me toward the apps since the cruise takes the apps out of the equation.

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Thats what I was thinking. I'm no electrical whiz but I can't imagine that a bad ground or dirty connector would be cleared up by unhooking batts and reseting APPS, then magically start to appear again.

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I've been where you are, done the resets. After about 2 years of off and on dealing with it I finally broke down and took a chance and bought an Apps sensor from Timbo. I put it on my truck and took it for a drive an immediatley saw that the Apps was doing it all along. Mine didn't do it when using cruise as is your case also. Why did I wait that long to just buy it :doh: Buy one and be done with it, if it's not that, i'm sure it's not the first $175 you'll waste in your lifetime:whistle:

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I am thinking that's what I will I do. I've been reading about how it's a noticeable difference from the stock type APPS anyway and will last longer. I'll just think of it as an "upgrade" rather than a part failure to to ease my mind lol

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Hey guys I was doing some thinking and had an idea to buy me some time on ordering a TIMBO. Would it be harmful to just simply make it a habit to do a quick reset on the APPS after each drive? I am thinking just turn the truck off after I get to where I'm going, turn the key back on, slowly depress the pedal, key off and get out. Then I come back and when I start it back up it will be reset and I won't have to keep dealing with the jerky throttle. Just long enough to buy me some time to store my nuts for the winter lol. I have a feeling I will be collecting unemployment for a while when it gets really cold out, so I don't want to be spending TOO much money if I don't have to quite yet. I was just wondering if it would be bad or just stupid to keep doing that?

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Yes it will be a small pain but I will only do it until around the holidays, maybe as soon as turkey day. The jerky throttle is just becoming very annoying to me, so I just wanted to make sure it wouldn't hurt anything to repeatedly reset it like that. And realistically I will actually only need to do it every few drives or so when it starts to jerk again.

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