a have a couple VP44 questions

[pri_i_oh]

Im fairly certain my VP44 took a big ol' dump on me the other day and now I have to spend a grand on another one. Im trying to troubleshoot so that I dont have to spend ANOTHER grand on a pump.It seems to me that the main issue with these pumps going bad is the fuel not being cooled enough and the pump and/or electronics overheat. So would it be a good idea to either:A. Coil the fuel line up after the filter housing (kind of looking like brake lines by a master cylinder) before it goes into the VP.orB. run the fuel lines through some sort of a small oil or tranny cooler mounted in the front somewhere after the filter housing but before the VP.Am I WAAAAY off base here? any thoughts?

[vineyardmh]

If you do some extensive searching in the various forums, you will find some threads where people have done modifications to increase the cooling to the VP. I saw one where there was added ducting to get more outside air funneled in and directed onto the VP. Add a large aluminum heat sink at or near the electronics (think of the large ones used to cool very large SCRs or transistors...with lots of fins)...and combine with external air venting - and you can really add additional cooling to the VP.[Alternately - live in a cool area where the highs are seldom above 80's, the overall average temperature might be 50 - 60 degrees, and those modifications might not be needed!!! Try the Pacific North Wet - where it is mild mild mild!]

[dripley]

Low fuel pressure will contribute to low cooling. The vp relies on fuel for cooling. The return fuel line from the vp starts to open at 10 psi and is fully open at 14 psi. Many of us are running after market lift pumps to keep that pressure up and the valve fullly open. I did not see what kind of lift pump you have. Do you know what fuel pressures you are running at idle and WOT? Thger are many folks here with 150K+ miles on there pumps with this set up.

[Mopar1973Man]

I'm one of the rare ones that sees 100-110* in the summer time and then in the winter time be as cold as -25*F. Yes I live in the Northwest and in the State of Idaho.

There is 3 things that kill VP44 injection pumps.

[*]Low Fuel pressure

[*]Low filtration

[*]Low Lubricity

The fixes to these 3 things.

[*]Keep your fuel pressure between 14-20 PSI at all times this willl improve cooling and lubing of the VP44 injection pump while its under heavy load.

[*]Upgrade or use high quality filters. While there is lots and lots of filter out you should opt for 2-3 micron filters. Do cheap out for the local part store filters. Study up and buy a good quality filter.

[*]Bosch's study on fuel lubricity found that all fuel injection pumps had the best life span with fuels scored <450 HFRR. Using a quality lubricant additive will extend the life of your VP44 injection pump.

More information...

[*]http://articles.mopar1973man.com/2nd-generation-24v-dodge-cummins/25-fuel-system/49-fuel-pressure-specification-for-bosch-vp44-injection-pumps

[*](N/a)

[*]http://articles.mopar1973man.com/general-cummins/36-fuel-system/68-hfrr-testing-of-common-diesel-fuel-additives

[pri_i_oh]

Alot of helpfull information. Sounds like I have some mods to do once I get a new VP. As of right now I have no lift pump. I have the module in the tank and the VP. Any wallet friendly suggestions would be greatly appreciate since I have to spend a grand on a pump now....lol

[dripley]

I'm one of the rare ones that sees 100-110* in the summer time and then in the winter time be as cold as -25*F. Yes I live in the Northwest and in the State of Idaho.

There is 3 things that kill VP44 injection pumps.

[*]Low Fuel pressure

[*]Low filtration

[*]Low Lubricity

The fixes to these 3 things.

[*]Keep your fuel pressure between 14-20 PSI at all times this willl improve cooling and lubing of the VP44 injection pump while its under heavy load.

[*]Upgrade or use high quality filters. While there is lots and lots of filter out you should opt for 2-3 micron filters. Do cheap out for the local part store filters. Study up and buy a good quality filter.

[*]Bosch's study on fuel lubricity found that all fuel injection pumps had the best life span with fuels scored <450 HFRR. Using a quality lubricant additive will extend the life of your VP44 injection pump.

More information...

[*]http://articles.mopar1973man.com/2nd-generation-24v-dodge-cummins/25-fuel-system/49-fuel-pressure-specification-for-bosch-vp44-injection-pumps

[*](N/a)

[*]http://articles.mopar1973man.com/general-cummins/36-fuel-system/68-hfrr-testing-of-common-diesel-fuel-additives

As always much more detailed and elequent than I.

[Mopar1973Man]

Alot of helpfull information. Sounds like I have some mods to do once I get a new VP. As of right now I have no lift pump. I have the module in the tank and the VP. Any wallet friendly suggestions would be greatly appreciate since I have to spend a grand on a pump now....lol

Well Ummm... The best thing right now would be to think about a Vulcan Big Line Kit. This will at least allow the stock pump to keep up with the injection pump and keep the fuel pressure up. I ran this for over 2 years till I got tired of replacing stock lift pumps.

http://articles.mopar1973man.com/2nd-generation-24v-dodge-cummins/25-fuel-system/32-stock-lift-pumps

http://www.vulcanperformance.com/Vulcan-Pusher-Pump-System-for-98-5-to-04-p/prs.htm

[pri_i_oh]

Im so overwhelmed with this diesel stuff. Ive only had the truck for a little under 2 years and I just dont know that much about it. It seems like everyone has a different idea of whats the "best" or will last the "longest". Im not looking for massive HP advances or anything like that its mainly a daily driver and I occasionally tow a 28' gooseneck trailer. So far the best price I got on a VP is 970.00 shipped and Im pretty sure Im going to have to bite the bullet on that one because Im pretty sure my pump is shot. But people are mentioning lift pumps, and lower michron filters and big line kits and everyone has their own opinion on what the best lift pump is. I dont really know what to do.

[Mopar1973Man]

Im so overwhelmed with this diesel stuff.

Ok lets work it one step at a time then.

Ive only had the truck for a little under 2 years and I just dont know that much about it.

Ask lots of questions we'll do what we can to answer it to the best of our knowledge.

It seems like everyone has a different idea of whats the "best" or will last the "longest".

That fact will never change...

Im not looking for massive HP advances or anything like that its mainly a daily driver and I occasionally tow a 28' gooseneck trailer

Well there is several people on the site here that are setup for exactly that. Look at my own setup I'm towing a 31' Jayco Travel trailer and a smaller 8x8 utility trailer. Ask around why they pick the parts they did.

So far the best price I got on a VP is 970.00 shipped and Im pretty sure Im going to have to bite the bullet on that one because Im pretty sure my pump is shot.

Ahh... Diesel Auto Power (Jacob Kidd) good man with good prices.

But people are mentioning lift pumps, and lower michron filters and big line kits and everyone has their own opinion on what the best lift pump is.

Ok. Building a truck is simular to building a house. What you need to do is sit down and do some soul searching and talking to the gang here. Now picture a HP/TQ number you want to reach for say 350 HP/800 TQ. Ok this would be your build plans. So now you would start working on all the weakness of trhe truck like fuel system, transmission, etc. Then after you sure of all the weakness are cover and your foundation is strong now you add the power and fuel. Because like building house on a weak foundation it will just fall over.

I dont really know what to do.

Best thing is to ask questions and listen to advise of the family members here.

[flagmanruss]

Blue Chip Diesel http://www.bluechipdiesel.com/index.html only does VP44s now including having Special pumps built to their specs... I found them to be a useful information source no matter where you buy your VP44. Somewhere in there I recall reading that various things have been tried including insulation & ductwork to cool the VP & BlueChip considers them ineffective. I've seen lots written on this subject & the part of the problem that can't be overcome is that the pump itself is bolted to a hunk of hot metal (the engine). The engine gets hot when working... HOTTER, I should say... but it has a cooling system... So in my view, when the truck has been working (say towing heavy) then we should idle it to cool down, as we currently recommend to allow the turbo to cool down. (When the engine is shut down, the oil pressure bleeds down quickly & the water pump & fan stop turning. Immediately after shut down, residual heat will transfer to all attached components... I had occasion a couple of years ago to run the temp up very HOT... maneuvering under load to get the trailer sited in a soft field... I popped the hood (to let the heat out) & let the engine idle for 10 minutes after the gauge read normal temperature... I don't recommend doing what happened, but I think I 'saved' it... by my actions.

[vineyardmh]

The observation that heat kills electronics is very accurate. Of course, other factors can come in - such as the design and use of certain components in the electronics. I work at a shipyard, and have had a chance to check on failures of electronic devices used at various shipyard...and can see higher failure rates at the hotter shipyards. A classic example I saw was a mis-designed circuit that used opto-isolators to turn on/off miniature relays. The miniature relays were low current - designed to use ONLY 30 milliamps. Unfortunately, the designer failed to note that the opto-isolator was rated for only 20 milliamps. But it worked initially, with no problems at startup. However, the hottest shipyard had 4 cards fail in 5 years where the opto-isolator "died", while the coolest shipyard (in the Pacific North Wet) had 0 failures. So in this example - it was a combination of pushing a component too hard (beyond its rating) ...resulting in no failures where the environment was cooler, but unacceptable components in hotter climates.For the opto-isolator example - we did re-design the circuitry so that it no longer switched a mechanical relay - using it to trigger a much lower draw electronic relay. OTOH - it is hard to redesign the Dodge/Cummins circuits. But - you see occasional "tweaking" around the edges - the ECM originally provided power to the Lift Pump on the block, but then that line from the EDM was used to activate a relay that would power an add-on pump (and the relay would draw less current than the original LP would draw.)There might be some benefits to improving air flow to the VP electronics, and the suggestion about cooling the system down might be beneficial. (But it is worth noting that many electronics have temperature ratings that are a bit higher if de-energized than if operating.)

[Mopar1973Man]

Air flow will little to no good being the electronics are mount against the fuel side of the plate and there is air gap, plastic housing, then a aluminum cover. So air flow is not going to really change the temps much but fuel flow will.

[CUMMINSDIESELPWR]

This is why a handmade cover needs to be made so thermal paste can be Injected into the cavity and a peltier cooler or big CPU heatsink attached to it regulated with a thermal switch that will cutout on its own well after shutdown, anyone have a cover they want to spare? I'll build something to this idea