Guns.....

[Wild and Free]

Exactly, Bill. People, more and more restrictive gun laws WILL NOT WORK period. Do you really think that the criminal will abide by them? All more laws will do is make it easier for the criminal. I can take a gun, ANY gun, load it, ____ the hammer and sit in front of it as long as I want and the gun WILL NOT kill me. As the saying goes "Guns don't kill people, PEOPLE kill people".

Most people do not realize that if you see FOUR people, ONE of them (statistically) has what is called a mental disorder. Also ONE in THREE have seen a councilor for mental issues......... The actual care for the mental issues has improved over the years, BUT, the number of people qualified to treat mental health problems has declined over the years.

Gun laws are not the answer.

Just read an article a couple days ago where the latest Pharma studies now state that all human emotions are now considered to be deemed a mental issue, So now all the parents who have just lost a child are considered mentally unstable and then according to new gov laws could be banned from owning a gun and then could wind up on a no fly list ect ect ect, it just snowballs.

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Morphius sums it up to a tee here.

Most amreicans have chosen to take the blue pill and just go with what the government run mainstream media is allowed to show them.

I my self have taken the red pill "Actually just my multi vitamin and supplements" and am still trying to find the bottom of the rabbit hole. Just looking for the truth.

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGQF8LAmiaE

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Here is an article to back some of my info.

http://www.naturalnews.com/038353_gun_control_psychiatric_drugs_Adam_Lanza.html

[rancherman]

The gov't shouldn't have any say in firearms. Period. It's our Constitutional right. I will laughably say the only reason DC worrys about control, is to keep a peaceful population from overturning them. Wild and Free makes a sound call, We have a generation 'weaned' on ritalin, and babysat via wii or playstation... Perhaps too many kids these days think there is a 'reset' button? I wonder if the 'kid' who did yesterdays' slayings.... was under duress, hunger, broke, or ever 'wanted' anything?...... Or just needed attention...We all can argue till death do us part on how to handle 'bad dudes'... or how to prevent them from 'being'.Unfortunatly, the 'drum beater' on POINT in real life is the first to get mowed down... (meaning... the folks who think life is risk free, and take no precautions, or rely on others for well being) There is no time to argue these days on the ultimate 'fix', because the problem is here and now. We as parents must look at where are children are. Are they safe? who is watching them? Are there precautionary systems in place? If not... maybe it's time to rethink our 'public babysitting' facilities. I say this with tongue in cheek... because I am blown away with what some parents do these days! "hand the kids off to someone else" to raise.We must bring back Capital punishment.. and they must be either HUNG, Electric chair, or Firing squad. And they must be public. I can hear all the bleeding hearts thinking 'oh, but what about the wrongly accused innocent'? Our Justice system is perfect right??? To that I'll respond<<< OJ Simpson.... Sometimes mistakes will be made. The fear of getting caught, and held ultimately responsible for 'bad' actions, has, and always will give 'pause' to a potential crime. I don't give a crap if some dude claims to be crazy, or 'unable to understand' what he has done. If found guilty of a Capital crime, then swift and extreme justice must be carried out. No matter what.

[JAG1]

Having the right tools for the job is what many people agree with. At schools, shopping centers, stores, any public place needs many fire escapes, but why not reduce the number of entrances as needed and install equipment that can detect guns on a person that will automatically stun gun the crazy guy? Stop him in his tracks.There are other problems like some crazy guy slipping the gun under the fence at a school, walking thru the detector and go get the gun after inside. This is one issue but, then the detector could have a code reader that will not allow anyone not authorized. Then schools become like a prison in a sense with guards. I just don't know the solution, but, want to carry these thoughts thinking perhaps being the right equipment. Perhaps made in America. How do you stop a student that suddenly goes crazy Lots of problems.....................This is a very sad thing and needs to stop somehow.

[Wild and Free]

"We have a generation 'weaned' on ritalin, and babysat via wii or playstation"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5I6XdSbwUQ&feature=player_embedded

[flagmanruss]

Firearms can not be de-invented. Jeff Cooper pointed out that even in mythology... they gave their Gods the power to point the hand & strike down at a distance. So I think it is an inate human desire. If we did de-invent firearms, human kind would probably invent something worse. Phasers at 10 paces! Last time I check, the UK... an island for gosh sakes... has one of the strictest gun laws in the world YET has a rising incidence of armed crime. Persons who are set on breaking laws, don't bother to count how many they break. But if we did eliminate every gun from US, then knives, swords, gasoline, fertillizer & propane... will then have to be controled as well. I don't know how you get into someone elses head... to intervene before they do some horrible crime. In this latest case... everybody seemed to think he had mental problems for years... Except perhaps his mother, who legally bought numerous guns. Apparently additional guns were found in her home. I have no basis for saying so but I don't think the guns were for her. DENIAL?? At 20 he could not buy pistols himself. CT has strict gun control laws... but a wacko will buy stolen guns or steal them himself... or find another weapon... We think of all of CT (state line is just a mile from our house) as neighbors... this is very close to home. It has been a wrenching couple of days.

[dobienut]

if guns arent the problem then why does the media take anything dealing with guns to such an extreme coverage and nothing else? the government isnt worried about the nation revolting with knives, clubs and arrows... they have guns to curb that. i feel that removing the government from any part in the issue of guns and violence on this scale is not a good idea.

I don't think the media cares about anything other then blowing the story up as big as it can be so they can get the viewers in return for investors. As i said...IMO media is alot to blame for tragedies like this. It's an avenue to fame to a twisted persons mind

[diesel4life]

Americas got way too much time on their hands, point blank. Weve become probably the laziest country in the world, and its all happened inthe last few decades. Now some of us no doubt have to get up everyday and find a way to support ourselves, put food on our table, a roof over our heads, and clothes on our backs. But were fast becoming a minority. More and more people are coming to expect handouts from the government. Food stamps, welfare checks, free insurance. All they have to do is sit at home and reap the benefits. Its people like this that have way too much time ontheir hands. My father always said "idle hands are the devils playground" and the older I get the more and more I see it. These people have nothing useful or important to do with their day so they eventually get in trouble. Doing drugs, drinking, stealing, joining gangs, making more babies they cant afford to raise, whatever the case may be. I say take all this sh*t away from them and let them fend for themselves. If everybody had to find a way to support themselves, there would be alot less crime. Yesterdays events hit home for the wife and I, weve got a 7 and a 9 year old. Dont know what I would ever do without them.

[ISX]

w&f, i forgot all about reading about the antidepressants involved in the colmbine thing. i didnt aim this thread so much at gun control but rather a solution and you definitely see more parts of the picture than most. So it seems the root of the problem is the mentality, which can be caused by the antidepressants. But the columbine kids had some prettttty bad things being done to them.. I'm not sure if we have the capacity to kill based on that alone or if the drugs give us the extra boost to go over the edge. The next problem is the availability of the guns which as everyone seems to concur, is easy as pie.. I mean the more we allow ourselves the ease to arm ourselves, the easier it gets for those psychos as well. I know guns don't shoot themselves which is why this is #2 on the ranking.. Then we have knives and anything else. I see that as a better alternative because you have to be close range, so people can merely run and be fine. People can throw stuff at them to keep them away if they can't win the foot race. I think knife wounds heal better too? Any thing on earth can be a weapon..but a gun sure is a world more powerful than all the runner ups. My quandary is how do we get all these kids to be equal in school. I think everyone knows that there is a caste system among kids. There are the jocks, the regular kids I guess, then the nerds are probably last lol. The jocks make fun of the nerds, the regular kids do nothing, and the nerds get bullied the whole time. They don't have to be nerds but yeah everyone knows who gets picked on. The loners, the guys who dress differently... There is never a class that tells us that we are all equal, and teachers sure don't seem to care to tell is that either. It's like from 2nd grade on up we start ranking each other and pick on the lower ranks. It's ridiculous.

[dobienut]

Yesterday's society =. bad or different acting kids means work with them, spend time with them and teach them things they need to know about life. Spend time doing things as a family, if you see they are bothered, try to talk to them to find out whats going on in their lives.Teach them to get out, make friends, have hobbies, act like kids. Today's society= bad or different acting kids..O , my child has ADD. I can't deal with him, give him drugs so I can do other things instead of spending time on him/her. Here's a video game, sit and play it all day until you get annoyed enough at it you figure out how to kill all the players on the other team. You don't need a bicycle, just sit in your room and watch tv. Mom and Dad will be home later, get yourself something good to eat, there some choclate bars in the cupboardI bet i've only seen 3 kids out on bicycles hanging out together all summer around here, and that's no exaggeration. As for kids walking along with their pants hanging down over their ___ with a hoodie on in scorching heat while texting on their new iPhone..lost countWhy are kids screwed up compared to years ago ...

[hex0rz]

WOW! This thread has gotten lit on fire!

I almost feel like my opinion just is not going to matter in this conversation. A bigger understanding of the bigger picture is what is most important. Although, some will tend to diasagree on the subjct, I find it to be the source of the problem. I did not take the time to read everyones comment, so I apologize if repeated.

Heres the deal with guns. Guns are just a "tool". Its a tool for destruction. It serves no other purpose other than to inflict damage upon an object. Living or non living. Does this tool mean its bad? No. What does a drill do? It puts holes into things. Does it mean its bad? No.

It does not matter whether it is a gun, hammer, bat, knife. These tools all have a purpose. Whether they are used constructively or destructively. The matter at hand is the one who posesses this tool. If someone has a gun, they either use it for GOOD or BAD.

What matters most? Controlling and regulating an oject that does not think or act, or controlling the subject that uses the object?

I may sound religious, but I have good reason. When we gain an understanding that there is a problem in this world an it all boils down to the human we will learn why.

When Adam and Eve sinned against God for the first time, sin entered the world. Ever SINCE THEN, man has always sinned. Evil entered into the world and we then became influenced by Satan and his demons.

Genesis 8:21:

The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: "Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.

After the flood in Noahs time, God promised not to use water to destroy the earth to rid humankind. EVEN though our hearts incline to evil from birth.

Mark 7:21:

For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery,

Plainly put, MAN is the source of evil, sin. Our hearts have fallen to sin since the the fall of man at Aam and Eve.

Why do I tell you this? Because we have to understand that as humankind, we are fallen. We sometimes are influenced by the evil from satan and our hearts incline to do what God has told us not to do.

I will PROMISE you this, in this world, we will ALWAYS be faced with psychotic killers who go to schools and kill people.

It does not matter whether or not if it is a gun, knife, bat, etc. Yes, to some extent the damage will be less due to a different approach in killing, but the intent of that person will not change.

This is WHY gun control will NEVER work. If the USA was rid of all guns and there was never a possibility to be ever hit with a powdered projectile again, I will guarantee you, there will ALWAYS be someone using something else to kill others with.

UNTIL the Lord does away with SIN, we will always be faced with the sorrow in this life.

BUT, until that happens and that day comes to pass, we ALL mut be PERSONALLY responsible in protecting and defending ourselves and anyone who is INNOCENT. We have been fortunate enough though, to have a right endowed by our creator to do so. Because the founding fathers KNEW this, they made it apart of the framework of our country.

It is our responsibility to defend and protect. Yes, we cannot be everywhere at one time, but we do what we can according to our capabilities. Our government has denied that GOD exists. They are removing him from our lives, and country daily. They are what is defined as "anti-christ". They believe THEY are the ones who get to write history and also control our lives. They DO NOT live by scripture, but their own definition or MORALITY.

NOW, switching to the non-religious aspect of things, logistical nightmares. Malls, schools, etc. that BAN the possession of weapons is folly. As always stated, only law-abiding citizen are the ones who get hurt. We are effectively disarmed by the strok of the pen. Liberals who lack logic think that they have done right under good intentions.

If you are a person who is wise, you either choose not to visit places that restrict your abilities to defend and protect or you disregard the ban on the presence of weapons. You also take that chance of being arrested and being guilty of a federal crime. But, sometimes you either do it or not do it and you risk the chance of being imprisoned or dying.

Heres comes the twist in things, like I said, it is the person behind the tool that determines how that tool is to be used. For good or for bad? Those people who posses morality in the right VIEW of God, will only use such a tool for good. They cannot let themselves become a casualty of committing an act that goes against what God states. You can choose to protect and defend, or you can choose to kill and threaten.

ALSO, I for one 'am NOT an advocate for open carry. Concealed carry is the best way to go through life. Openly carrying makes you a target, anyone who chooses to rob a place, commit massacres, etc. will scan the area for the highest threats first and removing that threat first BEFORE going after the weaker.

IF you conceal carry, you are looked at like a weaker person than the uniformed cop that has his sidearm on his duty belt. A killer is going to shoot the cop before you, because that person does not see your sidearm.

Use the element of surprise to gain an upper hand on the killer. Not only can you become the first target, but if you are not well-trained in hand to hand, you can also be disarmed EASILY. Now you don't have your sidearm to protect and defend.

Carry concealed, carry what you can train comfortably with, use it, be someone with a MORAL compass, guided by Gods will. Don't let yourself be an unarmed person relying upon the lies of govt. protection or someone else. Its ALL our duty to protect others and defend others who are innocent.

All it takes is one person, with the right set of circumstances and a well placed round to disable the evildoer. A teacher with a gun to protect a classroom of 20-30 kids is not an impossible task. The teacer has to stand between the kids and the killer. Being well-trained in their arms and knowing how to react to such a situation, allowing them to think in a high-pressure situation will spell better success than a teacher who is without.

Try as we all might, even though we may all have guns, be well-trained and have the right moral compass, we will not all be to prevent the unfortunate things that happen in life. But that does not mean we as good men stand by and do nothing and let evil prevail.

....umm, so yea, I wrote a book!

[ISX]

Guys you all have taught me and hopefully everyone else a lot on this topic. It's amazing that in the beginning before we "understood" each other, that we kinda had some arguments. Now we are actually putting out several aspects of the solution for review by fellow peers. I'm only mentioning this at all because it's so rare to do what we are doing. The government sure isn't doing what we are.. Carry on guys! :thumbup2:

[dobienut]

hex0rz, I think that was all very well said! One thing I see out of that post that maybe govt's should possibly look at, is the secret training of all teachers in hanguns and being able to conceal carry? I know, sounds dumb because it doesn't happen in only schools, but these are the places where the innocent are much to young to even begin to think of protecting themselves, so that's the adults job.

[ISX]

I'm going to add a poll to this thread based on something I just found http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/us/connecticut-shooting-reader-suggestions/index.html If I can figure out how to allow you guys to vote on only 3 things. I want you guys to vote on just the top 3 priorities, cause I think their list is a little out of whack. I'm interested in seeing what you guys vote for. It will be anonymous so yeah. I'll see if I can get it to work without deleting the whole thread lol.

[rancherman]

http://youtu.be/XpDFLbUu3BI

What do we do now? We start by taking matters into our own hands. Start by writing letters, emails, phonecalls to your congressman, senator, Your local and state elected officals... stating you want to be able to defend yourself. NO gun control. Bring back swift capital punishment. No more revolving door prisons.Bring back corporal punishment in the schools. Kids must know/respect the 'rod'. (we've home schooled 2, and #3 is 'in-process') When Bill Clinton was elected the first time, that was my 'breaking point'... I pulled our kids out of elementary school... and started at home.There is a reason I have 14 year old vehicles... I put my money in my kids. I have given my 'whole' to raising my kids...without babysitters, afternoon daycare, or other outside hand-offs. don't get me wrong, they aren't hid away in the closet.. They belong to the local 4-h club, local hockey team, the youth group at the church, the area Home School Association has over 100 youth members. I think we have the 'social bases' covered! The next part will be the hardest to swallow... Are we as a nation going to wait for some 'law' to come down, or are we willing to do what ever it takes to 'stand up' for what is right? and possibly be persecuted for doing it? We can discuss 'right or wrong' all week here, but when millions of babies are murdered every year in this country, I have to wonder what 'law' is going to protect ME and my family? I pray that if I ever get in a situation, where I have to put someone down, like depicted in the above video... that I would not be 'nailed to the cross' for having a weapon on me. If it comes to that, I would rather go to jail than see my family or other innocents suffer. It'll come down to 'what are you prepared/willing to do'. We have a constitutional right to defend ourselves. I for one will rely on that freedom. I'll probably burn for it too. It's my decision.

[hex0rz]

We can discuss 'right or wrong' all week here, but when millions of babies are murdered every year in this country, I have to wonder what 'law' is going to protect ME and my family? I pray that if I ever get in a situation, where I have to put someone down, like depicted in the above video... that I would not be 'nailed to the cross' for having a weapon on me. If it comes to that, I would rather go to jail than see my family or other innocents suffer. It'll come down to 'what are you prepared/willing to do'. We have a constitutional right to defend ourselves. I for one will rely on that freedom. I'll probably burn for it too. It's my decision.

If/when me and the wife have little ones, we will be homeschooling our kids as well. I'm sole income at the moment, and hopefully I will always be able to meed the income needs to make that possible. Kudos, to you, my friend, for making that possible for your kids! LAWS although, do not protect anyone. Unless the law is ENFORCED, thats when one is protected by that law. If the day comes that "we the people" have to use our 2nd amendments for whatever reason, then so be it. We have to stand united to make sure we do not become "martyrs" for the cause.

[Wild and Free]

The answer is non lethal defense for every man woman and child old enough to know how to use it. http://forum.mopar1973man.com/threads/6815-BeSafeAcademy-product-lists! http://forum.mopar1973man.com/threads/6907-BeSafeAcademy-restocked!?p=65554#post65554 Another pro for concealed carry that was not mentioned that probably saved many lives in Oregon. http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html

[ISX]

Interesting how the top option didn't even get voted on :lmao:That list is in order based on the top things that people recommended to CNN, as in thousands of people commenting.. Just shows how divided America is. I think we all had an effect on each other as well. I mighta voted for number 1 at the beginning of this thread.. There is one thing you guys might not have seen but shows America's division. They are ALSO ranked based on social involvement....I mean just look at it. America wants to take everyone's guns away so they can't shoot anyone. The last thing they want to do is look out for each other... If you just look at each one it perfectly goes from least social to most social. People don't want to talk to each other. I believe that to be the biggest problem of all that causes more problems than anything.

[dobienut]

Government can take all the guns they want, but they're only going to get the ones that are owned by honest people. The criminals either wont turn theirs over or they will have them taken if its known they have them, then they will get more. As was said earlier though, if the crime isn't done by gun, it will be done by something. And I agree ISX, we have become a society that doesn't want to talk. Walk down the street and you'll see, most people will not acknowledge each other, have their heads down looking at their texts, or MP3 players playing in their ears as they give a blank stare ahead. I said this earlier and wonder who feels the same....anyone feel the type of programming or movies that's being out today is a contributing factor? I mean look at it, so much of what you see on tv now days is about people killing people, sick twisted people going out and taking revenge on innocent people. To me it has the possibility to fuel a fire of somebody sitting watching it thats half a bubble off center

[flagmanruss]

In my state, school doors are now locked... never were when I was a kid... but these are different times. However, in this, most recent case, the attacker forced his way inside. He had guns but could also have used a vehicle to ram his way in or explosives to blast a door, any door. I agree with restricting access & security cameras but a person on a suicide mission doesn't care if his identity is known. He WANTS his name to be known. Very sad. Hardening the schools, posting armed guards or Police... will not stop the carnage. It will only deflect it to softer targets, shopping malls, movie theaters... Gun control? These were his mother's guns. Bought legally under strict gun control and registered to her. Reports are now... from her family... that she bought them 'for protection'. Sadly, she did not recognizing the evil living in her home... the danger was from within, not without!I don't think that K-12 schools can allow staff to CCW. Personal weapons would be too hard to secure every second of every day. I do think that college level schools should allow properly licensed CCW among students & staff... & well concealed... after those persons recognize that being armed will change & must change how they can particpate in activities. No partying!! I once taught adult scuba classes in Boston at night. At the graduation dinner, I learned that the head instructor (a City Cop) was packing 4" S&WM19, a student (a Security Guard) a Gov Model 45ACP and little old me S&WM39, 9mm. The student had been removing his should holster in the toilet stall & everybody brought their gym bags into the pool area since the locker room was shared. The guard was always nicely dressed with a suit & tie... Normal people would not want to harm another... somehow, troubled people need to be identified & helped. In the short term, the best we can do is harden targets. Just as the TSA has not stopped the terrorist movement... we need to identify those who are truely dangerous. I don't know how to do this if the nut keeps it to themselves. The adults who died... did so charging the shooter in a despitate attempt to stop him. The one wounded teacher who survived was closing the door & locking, didn't know she'd been hit until after he turned away from the locked door. All the rest had multiple gunshot wounds, adults & children. (according to the coroner) The lock down concept can not save those first encountered but it certainly saved many others. There isn't a good way to stop a suicide bomber or shooter... I see a lot of stores in our area, have recently installed protective posts, in front of the doors, or sometimes all around the stores. It's crazy!I don't see any easy fix... Obiviously, strict gun control didn't stop this.

[ISX]

Government can take all the guns they want, but they're only going to get the ones that are owned by honest people. The criminals either wont turn theirs over or they will have them taken if its known they have them, then they will get more. As was said earlier though, if the crime isn't done by gun, it will be done by something. And I agree ISX, we have become a society that doesn't want to talk. Walk down the street and you'll see, most people will not acknowledge each other, have their heads down looking at their texts, or MP3 players playing in their ears as they give a blank stare ahead. I said this earlier and wonder who feels the same....anyone feel the type of programming or movies that's being out today is a contributing factor? I mean look at it, so much of what you see on tv now days is about people killing people, sick twisted people going out and taking revenge on innocent people. To me it has the possibility to fuel a fire of somebody sitting watching it thats half a bubble off center

I am not so sure about the movie thing. I mean it's obvious there is a ton of violence in them. I watched a movie yesterday that I think was swedish that showed a girl being abused and raped by her liaison. She was screaming and yelling and yeah it was horrible since it showed all of it. However, I have seen movies from the 90's depicting the same thing. I do think this rape stuff has become more common in the movies since the 90's though, as in the pre90's didn't have it so much. I can assume in the 50's/60's it was possibly unheard of? Now this video game crap....the columbine kids said "it will be like a game of doom, the weak will die and the strong will live, natural selection" One of them even wore a shirt during the shooting that said natural selection. As they were killing people, they said "this isn't much fun anymore, lets try stabbing people". So the video game thing definitely has a role. I mean kids don't just get these ideas from thin air. Those 2 were avid gamers and that game "doom" was a big shooting game, they even created levels for it. Now I have a nintendo 64 with a game called perfect dark. All you do is run around and shoot people.. It's fun as hell if you have it on one hit kills because you see how many you can kill before you get killed yourself. It tests your accuracy and speed. There are real world versions of this you see on those gun shows like Top Shot where they compete to see who has the best accuracy and speed. So adults have a real version basically. I know a lot of guys on here would love to do crap like that. When I went to the grand canyon and looked across at the face of the cliff 1000's of yards away, I instantly wanted to put a bunch of targets out there and see if I could hit them. Now how does this turn into the violence of killing people? The difference in my video game between real world and it is that you get shot at in the video game and killed. I don't know if they want that added pressure or what. Buttttt, its not that they want the thrill of it. I mean obviously they think it's fun, but they still kill themselves.. The video games and crap just give them ideas but video games or not, they have a reason to kill people and then themselves. I mean why would you kill yourself if you were happy with life.. They aren't happy for some reason and the video games just give them a few ideas. I think they would probably do just as violent of things with or without the video games. The columbine kids had revenge on their minds and they probably woulda killed everyone they hated one way or another, video game or not. It just keeps boiling down to their satisfaction with life. Parents who don't care to help them, etc. My cousin has death all over her facebook, she dresses like death, all of that crap. There are THOUSANDS of kids like that. She is 14... Her dad doesn't care. Everyone has pointed it out, nothing changes. He knows what needs to change but it's more that his job keeps him away from home to enforce the laws. My other uncle on the other hand, treats his kids as if they were his best friends. They don't see him as some president who is only there to beat them, they see him as basically one of the older kids in school who you always wanted to hang out with. They respect him and he never touched them. He could just say hey, stop that, and they understood. His daughter is also 14, looks identical to the other death cousin, cept without the death crap. Really sucks because he died of cancer last year. It just goes to show how different things affect kids. I wasn't gonna talk about this but when I was a kid, my dad beat the crap out of me. Slammed my head into walls, told me to stop crying as he did it, everything. It wasn't hard enough to bruise me or anything but it left a lasting impression. We did a lot of fun things like ride go carts one weekend every summer and ride dirt bikes and such, but it was the normal everyday life that sucked. He would get home from work and it was like anything I did was wrong and I got beat the crap out of for it. I never learned, I never understood what I did wrong. We had a 2 story house and there were many times I contemplated jumping off onto the cement pad below. But I always had this theory that eventually things would get better, that I would move out and everything would be perfect. Well then I wrecked my dirt bike and had surgery on everything so then nobody ever did anything again since they figured they would break something if they touched me. So I guess it was kind of a good thing. I have a veryyyy high self esteem so I have easily washed away everything he did, plus I can't really remember anything before the wreck, as if it knocked all those thoughts out of me. So to me, parents should act like they are a kids best friend, not nothing but a cop. The guy I ride dirt bikes with is 50 and he is for lack of better words, meannn. I can match it though so we get along great, but his daughter added me on facebook a week or 2 ago and it is very obvious what affect he had on her. He was never there for her, never cared, told her she was on her own. She is over 20 now, got pregnant, he called her every name in the book for it since she was in college and he thinks her grades will drop and she will end up with no future. The thing is, he has no clue why his kids are the way they are. Seems rather obvious to me. It's like W&F says, people need to step back and look at the big picture of things, rather than analyzing the little things that don't tell the whole story. The solution to those little things are just band aid fixes. We can see from the chart that everyone wants better parenting, and I think thats definitely the most viable solution. I actually voted for the last 3 things, I really think socializing more is the key to all of this, if not ALL of the worlds problems. Alright so don't mention anything I just said about me and my dad lol. It was just an example of things that happen and the effects. He's fine to deal with now and with him being an engineer I have been prying out a lot of info from him to help me help you guys.