Death Wabble

[spikepuller]

recently put a leveling kit on and now I have the death wabble. when the driver side sway bar link came off it was in two pieces but I put two new moogs on today but haven't got to test it out yet. also there is a recall on left side ball joint gonna have that looked at Monday. has anyone else had any dealings with the death wabble and if so did you find a cure. thanks for your comments

[Ilikeoldfords]

As far as I know death wobble has to do with the track bar. I am not sure how the steering is set up on the 3rd gens but thats what causes issues on the 2nd gens.

[ABennin]

What size tires you running.  I have two family members with '06's and one has a death wobble.  The one with death wobble has larger tires than stock.  Everything was checked out in the front end, so I have been pushing him to buy the right size tires.  The other has used stock size tires since new and has over 110k with no issues.

 

Edit: The truck with the DW has 60k. on it.

Edited January 2, 2014 by ABennin

[hex0rz]

http://www.genosgarage.com/GenosGarageTechArticles/TDR74_SteeringWoes.pdf

 

^

[dorkweed]

Leveling Kit = Death Wobble starter kit IMHO!!!

 

Could be track bar bushings, tie rod ends, steering box, etc.  That couple with the fact that you change the entire geometry of the front end by doing this…………………………unless you get longer control arms and an adjustable track bar!!!

 

You just enhanced the probability of DW happening by a factor of about 10 by adding a leveling kit.  Spacers only right??!!

Edited January 2, 2014 by dorkweed

[JAG1]

My truck has the 2'' level kit and my steering is spot on for being tight, straight and the wheel at 12 o'clock.

 

It has the 03 adjustable trac bar, adjusted back to center after the lift.

 

I have the DSS steering stablizer.

 

New greasable american made ball joints and tie rod ends.

 

All this made the truck steer like new.

 

The DSS alone helped out a lot when my truck only had 30 k miles on it.

[diesel4life]

If that doesn't fix it, you will have to get under the truck and give everything a good look. Have someone turn the wheel back and forth while you inspect each component. Turning lock to lock helps sometimes, but generally when you initially change directions from one direction to the other is when you are most likely to find a worn component. I know lots of people with lifts, level kits, and big tires that have no problems, you just have to keep up with the front end and keep everything tight. You can expect to wear components faster than normal running oversized tires. The front axle is running close to its max gvw all the time, so adding bigger tires generally will accellerate the wear of many of the front end components. Shocks will not cause death wobble but make sure the ones you have are in good condition and are rated for the amount of lift you put on the front. Its usually best to change them out to a +2" shock.

BTW, I also have a levelling kit on the front of my truck and it tracks very well.

[AH64ID]

I have had a leveling kit on my truck since I bought it, actually was installed before I even showed up to the dealership at my request.

I started with a 2" level, and didn't like how much pressure I had to put in the bags when towing so I dropped to a 1" a few years back.

I have never had a hint of death wobble, nor has my dad with 110k miles on a 2" level.

There are plenty of cases of stock trucks with DW, and I do recall BFG AT's being a commonality as well.

Trac bar bushings, ball joints, and tie rods need to be checked as well as the steering damper.

[Mopar1973Man]

As soon as I open that TDR PDF I was kind of reading it but once they started talking about all the mods to over come death wobble and steering issues including Luke's Links and Steering braces I was instantly turned off by the article because I know its not correct. Being I've never needed or use any of these bolt on fixes and got 224k miles on my truck and still running straight as a arrow I know the problems stem from other places.

 

Leveling Kit = Death Wobble starter kit IMHO!!!

 

 

Like this is spot on. Some modifies the front axle geometry and expects everything to be correct.

 

Or like increasing tire sizes you now change the leverage angles and length against ball joint and steering parts.

 

Both truck here the 96 and 02 are still in stock form and no added steering fixes added. Still straight as a arrow and tight in the steering.

[diesel4life]

iI'm not trying to be argumentative here but I dont see how a small levelling kit (1-2") could ever induce a death wobble? Now anything going up from there and yes you would need to change up CA's to compensate. I know of lots of guys running around with lifted trucks, some have problems and some don't. Ultimately it comes down to maintaining proper geometry and equally as importantly maintaining your front end properly. I've been in bone stock trucks that had so much play in the wheel going down the road they were down right scary to drive...Again, this is where proper maintenance comes into play...

[AH64ID]

Steering box braces make a huge difference, quite happy I run one.

[dorkweed]

iI'm not trying to be argumentative here but I dont see how a small levelling kit (1-2") could ever induce a death wobble? Now anything going up from there and yes you would need to change up CA's to compensate. I know of lots of guys running around with lifted trucks, some have problems and some don't. Ultimately it comes down to maintaining proper geometry and equally as importantly maintaining your front end properly. I've been in bone stock trucks that had so much play in the wheel going down the road they were down right scary to drive...Again, this is where proper maintenance comes into play...

 

UNLESS you get the adjustable track bar, and longer control arms;  you are shifting the front axle of the truck to the rear and toward the drivers side with a "leveling kit".  That alone affects the geometry of how the front end works when going down the road going over bumps even if everything is "tight"!!

[AH64ID]

I still moves in the factory arc, nothing put of spec. It's no different than if you drove around with 1K in the bed and 1K on a hitch, the front goes up. Or a truck with a hemi. My brothers 06 hemi sits as high, or higher, than my truck. Not really a valid argument, more of trying to create an issue where there isn't one.

It's the kits that move things away from the factory arc that can cause issues.

[diesel4life]

UNLESS you get the adjustable track bar, and longer control arms;  you are shifting the front axle of the truck to the rear and toward the drivers side with a "leveling kit".  That alone affects the geometry of how the front end works when going down the road going over bumps even if everything is "tight"!!

Yes it does but it's a negligable difference. My former 00 had a levelling kit on it when I bought it and put around 100k miles on it, and never had any tire wear issues or handling issues. I put +2" coils on the front of my 98 not long after I bought it and have never experienced any problems with it either. I rotate tires every 7500 miles.

[Mopar1973Man]

It's more that just one part I see so many add multiple parts like wheel size change, larger tire, leveling kit, etc. so yes I see Dorkweed comment as some what valid because why else would you add a leveling kit most do it to slide 315's tires on the truck which again changes more geometry.

 

So why is it that two completely stock trucks don't require any of these mods? Stock size tires (235's), stock track bar (96 is still OE), only changed 1 track bar and 1 set of ball joints on the 02. Both trucks live more of its life in the back country dirt roads. But still no death wobble here... It's not the stock OE part that cause the issues. Something about a modification(s) that people are doing are creating the death wobble then require modification parts to correct the issues.

[AH64ID]

Your forgetting that it quite often happens to compleaty stock trucks.

One of the reasons for the steering change in 08.5 was death wobble.

Adding larger tires doesn't change the geometry, it physically can't. It does add larger sidewalls that may be softer, and take more force but the movement angles (geometry) isn't changed.

[dorkweed]

Your forgetting that it quite often happens to compleaty stock trucks.

One of the reasons for the steering change in 08.5 was death wobble.

Adding larger tires doesn't change the geometry, it physically can't. It does add larger sidewalls that may be softer, and take more force but the movement angles (geometry) isn't changed.

But it happens on trucks with "leveling kits" to a much greater extent based on % stock DW vs. % leveled DW.  And then throw in the BFG AT's!!!

 

Larger tires changes the "leverage" involved needed to turn the wheel;  and that extra leverage affects how the suspension works.  Larger tires will put more load on bearings and suspension parts……………..even moreso if you put different rims on with greater offset…………….…………….and the extra weight of larger tires affects the suspension aspect of the DW.  Sprung vs. un-sprung weight definitely has an affect on DW.

 

The control arm suspension on the front of our trucks is inherently unstable.

Edited January 2, 2014 by dorkweed

[JAG1]

Mopar Man, if you did put on a DSS steering stabilizer even when your truck had 2 miles on it you would have noticed an improvement.

 

Is it possible that you are so used to driving worn out fire trucks?

[Ilikeoldfords]

I think after market wheels with a larger offset is what really affects the steering and suspension. The amount of shear force that is put on the hubs, ball joints etc, from moving those tires out even an inch or 2 must be huge. I do run 315's on mine with a 2.5 in leveling kit but I still run the stock rims. This truck is still running on almost every stock part for the front steering and suspension at 215,000 miles and everything is still tight and in spec. I honestly dont believe the larger tires creates that much more stress as long as they are on the stock rims still.

[dorkweed]

 I honestly dont believe the larger tires creates that much more stress as long as they are on the stock rims still.

 

I disagree.  Just the weight of the larger tires has an effect on how the suspension works.  Search………..sprung vs. un-sprung weight.