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Looks like I may have lost ANOTHER Vp-44.... looking for options and ideas

FlatTwin
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FlatTwin

FlatTwin

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I've been having problems with my truck which might be related to a bad vp44 pump, I have a question for you how do you know vp is bad? Just because of codes or does it have driveability issues? Does it surge at all on highway speeds with load on engine? I'm baffled with problem I got and just don't want to throw money on unneeded parts. Thanks for any replays.

 

Sorry for the delay, I travel for a living and work keeps getting in the way. 

 

In my case it was throwing codes (at one time P0216, and P1698) and at one time smoking both heavy black then for a bit white smoke. The combination of these is leading me to feel that I have another VP going South.  Would love to have someone tell me otherwise as now I am concerned that its reliable or not. Driving performance 99% of the time is excellent, starts and runs like it always has. Now the smoke is gone and only smokes just a bit when I get on it...

 

As well recently its "burped" while driving several times.... engine stops or power stops for a second or two then starts right back up again.

 

After reading some of the other posts on this BBS disconnected the Edge w/Attitude and it did exactly the same but this time showing code of P0237. Now several months on its still throwing the P1689 code all the time and three gauges (water temp, oil pressure and the tach) stop working and the CCD error overhead pops up. Sometimes it does this for a bit then comes back, then sometimes all day long these three or two out of the three do this. 

 

Then in another thread someone mentioned that as I have been getting the CCD error code in the overhead display that my Cam positioning sensor was bad,. Ok so I spend the 4 wonderful fun filled hours changing this puppy (trust me, with the injection pump on its not fun) and guess what? Absolutely no change after $60 bucks and 4 hours wasted... 

 

Guys, I do not have the equipment above to measure electronics that you guys do, so no idea on if this is part of the issue. My voltage is rock steady (with new batteries) at 13.7 to 14.1 depending on the load and outside temp. I have a digital read-out for the voltage and its rock solid...

 

With half of the gauges not working much of the time, the P1689 code most of the time and concerns about the VP being reliable... I have to admit that I have seriously thought about getting rid of the truck. Anyone have any other suggestions? 

 

Thx, 

 

FT

Edited by FlatTwin
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JAG1

JAG1

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He means shop mechanics.

 

I think Bosch should send all new parts free for a new 'P' pump after your second VP goes out. After all we paid dearly for our trucks in this expensive world.

Edited by JAG1
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FlatTwin

FlatTwin

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JAG you might want to read a thread I'm involved in over at CF.

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/98-5-02-powertrain/1419514-whats-our-beef-vp44.html

Mike, 

 

Thanks and I just finished looking at the thread. It hits on all the high points that have me so frustrated. Two VP's changed already and I have little faith in this one not stranding me somewhere. 

 

Am really leaning towards taking the truck to a good Diesel shop I know of around here and just handing it to them. If they can find the P1689 fault and fix it for under $500-1000 then lets do it otherwise really leaning towards trading the damm thing in on something newer, at least a common rail version Cummins...  I am two years away from retiring and cannot continue to shovel VP's and $$$ into this truck. Need something reliable...

 

Thx, FT

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Mopar1973Man

Mopar1973Man

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First thing is double checking the wiring between the ECM and the VP44. Wiring is fairly straight forward (pun intended!)...

 

ecm3.jpg

 

As for the P1689 code again I would be looking at...

 

Fuel pump relay in the PDC.

Good battery cables both positive and negative. Being the VP44 ground is on the battery cable not the body.

Double checking the AC noise levels from the alternator. Being the alternator could be causing the failures of the electronics.

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JAG1

JAG1

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FlatTwin, You can fix that truck for loads less money than going for a different truck. You'll be taking a big bath selling a truck not running right.

I think the biggest mistake in ownership is not doing enough research/ reading to know exactly what should be done for maintenance and to get the right parts in general, just researching for the right supplier and rebuilder is paramount when spending that much on a VP. It's too bad human nature wants to go along with what someone said... trusting what's said without the research.

My experience has supported the idea that many people say words you love to hear, get your money but behind it all is something different. Somany people actually truely believe they are the best but in actuality is something different. It takes a long while to get wise to this ole' world.

FatTwin, be nice if you could get your truck into Mopar Man. he'd have it running smooth as glass.

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FlatTwin

FlatTwin

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First thing is double checking the wiring between the ECM and the VP44. Wiring is fairly straight forward (pun intended!)...

 

ecm3.jpg

 

As for the P1689 code again I would be looking at...

 

Fuel pump relay in the PDC.

Good battery cables both positive and negative. Being the VP44 ground is on the battery cable not the body.

Double checking the AC noise levels from the alternator. Being the alternator could be causing the failures of the electronics.

 

Mike,

 

Thanks much for all this. 

 

Questions.... 

 

Is there anohter relay in the PDC that I could swap out for the fuel pump relay and test? Or is it better to just get another one at the parts place? My fuel pressures are always spot on and great (17-19psi) and rock solid. 

 

Both batteries were swapped out with new units two months ago (I always change them in sets) and several months before that I put all new battery cables and marine style (bolt on) terminal ends. Sitting voltage went up to over 12v then when I start the truck it immediately goes to 13.7 minimum where in the old days I had to get the engine off of idle to see a good voltage raise. Ground and power cables are both excellent and should not be an issue there. Now if there is a separate ground or power wire from the VP or VP harness please let me know and can go back and confirm that its in good condition. 

 

As far as the AC "noise" from the generator I really do not have any way to check that. I have simple VOM's around and am pretty handy but not an electronic whiz... I work on airplanes and they for the most part are 1930's tech. 

JAG,

 

My issue is reliability with the truck. It had nothing on it when I bought it and I did not know about the VP and fuel pressure issue. Drove it until it started hiccuping and then did some research. Put a Raptor 100 on the truck along with a Edge w/Attitude so that now I had a gauge. Course the VP puked anyways but that was not its fault... Then put a freshly overhauled VP on it from DAP in Utah and it lasted 13 months. As usual the guys up there would not even return my phone calls so never buying anything from them again. Then the first Raptor pump died and was replaced under warranty... then the second one died and they gave me a good deal on a AD 165 which so far has worked wonderfully. 

 

Then this summer the VP that I got from Conestoga Diesel in PA after a recomendation from an old friend. He said that he would stand by his products "even if it died in the 13th or 14th month" .... Well it died two weeks after the 1 year warranty time hit and his reply was "your warranty is out, nothing I can do" ....   So you might now get the idea why I am a bit pissed off at pretty much anyone associated with VP's and this system... 

And if it would help I know of a couple of cute 30 year old ladies that I might send up to Idaho to keep Mike warm for a while but guessing that his wife or lady friend might not agree! :) 

 

Thanks guys!

 

FT

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MnTom

MnTom

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FlatTwin, You can swap the relays around within the PDC since they are all the same. For checking the AC noise, all you do is select AC on your meter, start the truck, then put one lead of your VOM to the ground on te right battery and the other lead to the large terminal on the alternator. Watch the meter as someone revs the engine. Anything over .1 (one tenth) of a volt is a failed diode and should be repaired.

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FlatTwin

FlatTwin

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FlatTwin, For checking the AC noise, all you do is select AC on your meter, start the truck, then put one lead of your VOM to the ground on te right battery and the other lead to the large terminal on the alternator. Watch the meter as someone revs the engine. Anything over .1 (one tenth) of a volt is a failed diode and should be repaired.

 

Tom, 

 

Here is a video of my readings.

 

http://s876.photobucket.com/user/joeaksa1/media/Dodge%20alternator%20AC%20reading_zpstkdxwj9a.mp4.html

 

Thx,  FT

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FlatTwin

FlatTwin

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Mike,

 

I checked and all the cables and leads appear to be fine, Photo below. 

 

Also I could not find a ground from the VP but then I have the Edge w/Attitude and there is a ground from the battery into the Edge module. It as well appears to be fine. 

 

Here is the main battery and the second one looks just the same but with less cables.

 

http://s876.photobucket.com/user/joeaksa1/media/Dodgemainbatteryconnections_zps3b499a0b.jpg.html

 

Thx, FT

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rlane547

rlane547

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Mike,

 

I checked and all the cables and leads appear to be fine, Photo below. 

 

Also I could not find a ground from the VP but then I have the Edge w/Attitude and there is a ground from the battery into the Edge module. It as well appears to be fine. 

 

Here is the main battery and the second one looks just the same but with less cables.

 

http://s876.photobucket.com/user/joeaksa1/media/Dodgemainbatteryconnections_zps3b499a0b.jpg.html

 

Thx, FT

Not to but in, but just to be on the safe side you may want to ohm those battery cables. I've seen some that look perfect but show a lot of resistance when you put the meter on it. Not uncommon for battery cables to deteriorate and separate inside of the rubber shielding.

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Dieselfuture

Dieselfuture

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Not to but in, but just to be on the safe side you may want to ohm those battery cables. I've seen some that look perfect but show a lot of resistance when you put the meter on it. Not uncommon for battery cables to deteriorate and separate inside of the rubber shielding.

I hate crimp connections, if I crimp I also solder it and don't use acid core it will eat wires slowly, use regular solder and clean as good as you can. Not saying that's your problem but don't trust crimp connections.

I quoted wrong guy but you get the idea.

Edited by Dieselfuture
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FlatTwin

FlatTwin

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Getting marginal.

 

I wish there was a diode kit for our alternators. It would be nice to just purchase the diode pack and replace it. Normal good diode should be 0.01 to 0.02. Your 0.08 is very concerning.

 So you think that this could be the problem? This video is the second time I ran it up and the first time it got up to .09 or so. Thats close enough to 1.0 to make me wonder... and a bit concerned.

 

If this could be an issue, especially losing VP's, then its cheap insurance to pull off and get it overhauled and make sure it has new diodes included.

 

Usually when a diode goes you can see some change in the voltage but I did not buy the truck new so it could have been this way for a long time.

 

Thx, FT

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