Snow plow mounting bolted and welded or?

[MoparFreak1988]

So I have a plow that has been around for about 14 years it is an old boss v plow I have mounts for my truck and a ford theses are two separate factory made mounts for the rt2,,, I plan on setting up both trucks for the plow mine as a back up for when the ford breaks down. I have done this before and understand that my plow frames are bolt on items for both trucks but still require drilling a couple holes in the frame for example Boss says for the push bar rear support to drill 3, 9/16 inch holes in a 4 inch x 4 inch area now I know why those bolts are there but my question is would one 4 inch bead of weld that can be ground off be better than Swiss cheesing up the frame?  would it be just as strong?,  now to give you an idea of strength before these last 6 bolt go in or it is welded there is a total of 16 other bolts holding it all together...

[Killer223]

not a good idea to weld on a frame, it add tensile to the frame and will crack next to the weld. of all the plow trucks i ran, never once did i weld, and never had a issue with factory install options, we used Mayer plows though. you might get away with stitch welding, and fish plating over. i just never seen a welded on plow bracket not crack the frame next to the weld.

[Buzzinhalfdozen]

I have an early 90s ford I've been plowing with for 4 years that I welded the the brackets right to the frame. No cracks and these frames are known to crack on there own. Just like anything there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. I hear "don't weld on frames" a lot and I'm not buying it. I've shortened/lengthened and fixed plenty of frames never to crack again.

[rancherman]

Where you drill,  how you treat  the  raw edges  of  the new hole   can be  just as   snarly  as   welding  in the wrong place,  using the wrong  filler, heat.

 

DOT  is  getting  REALLY   picky  on     'add ons'.     They are looking  for    welded-to-frame  type  stuff,   and   are  not  playing 'nice'.

 

Both can be  done  with  great results,   both can be done  with disastrous  results.

 

For  liability  reasons..     I'd recommend  you  find  a    bonafide   truck frame  shop.   to  get your  hitch  mounted.    

 

My Dad    was  co-owner  of   Henke Mfg.     Snow plows.    They  made    the   big   V plows, wingers,   one-ways,  and   reversible  plows  seen  on     State highways... mounted  to     everything  from    small  2 1/2 ton trucks  up to   the  biggest      Motor grader/patrols..     Lets  just say  Dad  did a lot of  correspondence with  these  manufacturers  to   find out   where   they'd be allowed to  drill, weld,  on these  new machines.      

 

Do NOT  drill  or weld   anywhere close to the radius on the  frame,  or  the    lip of  the  frame itself..   the   'middle 2/3's'   of  the  frame  is   safe...  and    NO weld   will  be     perpendicular  to the  length of  the frame.      Always    diagonal..  and never connect a weld  to  another one in a different direction.       Stay away  from   existing  holes, bolts  with  new holes  or welds  by  at least   2x the diameter of   THAT   bolt or hole. 

 

IF  something  happens  while going down the road,    and  it  doesn't even  require  your loss of control of the truck or plow...  just  an  accident and not even your fault,  Your rig is  going to be looked at  with  the  most  demanding  eyes.    If  something is  found  that  doesn't   'look right',    it's going to   hurt.

[Buzzinhalfdozen]

Where you drill, how you treat the raw edges of the new hole can be just as snarly as welding in the wrong place, using the wrong filler, heat.

DOT is getting REALLY picky on 'add ons'. They are looking for welded-to-frame type stuff, and are not playing 'nice'.

Both can be done with great results, both can be done with disastrous results.

For liability reasons.. I'd recommend you find a bonafide truck frame shop. to get your hitch mounted.

My Dad was co-owner of Henke Mfg. Snow plows. They made the big V plows, wingers, one-ways, and reversible plows seen on State highways... mounted to everything from small 2 1/2 ton trucks up to the biggest Motor grader/patrols.. Lets just say Dad did a lot of correspondence with these manufacturers to find out where they'd be allowed to drill, weld, on these new machines.

Do NOT drill or weld anywhere close to the radius on the frame, or the lip of the frame itself.. the 'middle 2/3's' of the frame is safe... and NO weld will be perpendicular to the length of the frame. Always diagonal.. and never connect a weld to another one in a different direction. Stay away from existing holes, bolts with new holes or welds by at least 2x the diameter of THAT bolt or hole.

IF something happens while going down the road, and it doesn't even require your loss of control of the truck or plow... just an accident and not even your fault, Your rig is going to be looked at with the most demanding eyes. If something is found that doesn't 'look right', it's going to hurt.

This is what I wanted to say just couldn't put it to words like the conversational wizard does.

[MoparFreak1988]

seen here is the plate in question this is the Ford frame we are looking at mine is at paint.

1. theses are factory brackets provided by boss if you look at the holes you will see three of them in close proximity to each other.
2. Boss says drill these three holes in the frame and that is the right way I don't believe so because the holes are to close together and there is a radius or bend under the middle of the  plate
3. my thoughts where a weld on the top but that would be to close to a radius and if I went on the back side it would be perpendicular to the length of the frame 
4. SO I wondered I don't like the drilling hole idea and I am starting to not like the welding idea.
5. what about one bolt and two plug welds?

here is a picture

 

 

BTW thank you all for your fast response they are all very good point especially the one regarding accident and the D.O.T.

makes me wonder how guys with homemade frames make out after a car accident...

[MnTom]

Those holes would be ok to drill out. You are not anywhere near the flange and the web is the place to drill holes. Boss has put a lot into the design and the liability of drilling the frame, so I would trust their instructions. Besides, SHOULD anything happen you can prove you installed it according to the instructions.

[Killer223]

It boggles my brain, we have 36 plow trucks, 5 Bobcats, three snow pushers, a loader. and never have I welded to the frame. Never has a frame broke, never has a bolt broke. Yet people still don't want to listen. Maybe it's my age, or the verbiage I use.

http://flagstaffsnowremoval.com

[MoparFreak1988]

Thank you Tom I literally just got off the phone with Boss.  The technician I spoke with said they have heard of frames cracking in the past but that is due to lack of proper install or other factors to fast and/or to much snow/ poor technique.

I also had the opportunity to pick our engineers brain on the subject he works for our CNC shop has his P.E. and said you could run into as many problems trying to weld as you would trying to bolt it up.  He expressed concern about the rear bolts being almost on top of each other and said if my frame were to crack it would be between the rear upper and the forward lower bolt...     He also said exactly what you did Tom "if you break a frame cause you put it together according to instructions that is better than being sued for trying to reinvent the wheel".

 

Thanks guys off to drill a frame.  

[MnTom]

Have fun!!

[rancherman]

good deal.^^^^^    Take  a  die grinder or  larger bit and   knock off the sharp edge of the new hole  (kinda like  countersinking)    Just enough to   remove the   square sharp corner.

 

Granted,   Dad's plows  were subject to  hitting  raised  manhole covers,  median curbs,  guard rails, bridge rails...  buried/parked cars..    at  45 mph...  Probably  a  tad more abuse  than   what  you guys are doing!   

[Buzzinhalfdozen]

It boggles my brain, we have 36 plow trucks, 5 Bobcats, three snow pushers, a loader. and never have I welded to the frame. Never has a frame broke, never has a bolt broke. Yet people still don't want to listen. Maybe it's my age, or the verbiage I use.
http://flagstaffsnowremoval.com

I agree if I was plowing commercially I would buy the correct mount for the vehicle that just bolts on but my plow is for personal use and almost never leaves private property. My mounts(built a couple) start life as a pile of steel. I'm just trying to clear up the popular misconception that you can't weld a frame. It's steel and if done properly it will be just as safe/strong/reliable as a bolt. Edited January 13, 2015 by Mopar1973Man
Fixed quote syntax.

[MnTom]

Yes, I agree that a frame can be welded to IF it is done properly. Stewart, you need to remember that most people that weld on them are just 'weekend welders' that just have a Lincoln buzz box.

[MoparFreak1988]

Yes, I agree that a frame can be welded to IF it is done properly. Stewart, you need to remember that most people that weld on them are just 'weekend welders' that just have a Lincoln buzz box.

I agree with this statement all the way I can weld many things BUT if anything on my truck needed to be welded I will leave it to our CNC shop welders any day of the week( that would have been the case with this frame had I not chose to bolt it together per manufacture spec.), simply because I know they have repaired computer controlled equipment safely and properly(my fear is always damage to the computer whenever welding on a truck) I know their work I have seen it many times and they weld everyday where as it is a hobby to me. 

[Dieselfuture]

Where you drill, how you treat the raw edges of the new hole can be just as snarly as welding in the wrong place, using the wrong filler, heat.

DOT is getting REALLY picky on 'add ons'. They are looking for welded-to-frame type stuff, and are not playing 'nice'.

Both can be done with great results, both can be done with disastrous results.

For liability reasons.. I'd recommend you find a bonafide truck frame shop. to get your hitch mounted.

My Dad was co-owner of Henke Mfg. Snow plows. They made the big V plows, wingers, one-ways, and reversible plows seen on State highways... mounted to everything from small 2 1/2 ton trucks up to the biggest Motor grader/patrols.. Lets just say Dad did a lot of correspondence with these manufacturers to find out where they'd be allowed to drill, weld, on these new machines.

Do NOT drill or weld anywhere close to the radius on the frame, or the lip of the frame itself.. the 'middle 2/3's' of the frame is safe... and NO weld will be perpendicular to the length of the frame. Always diagonal.. and never connect a weld to another one in a different direction. Stay away from existing holes, bolts with new holes or welds by at least 2x the diameter of THAT bolt or hole.

IF something happens while going down the road, and it doesn't even require your loss of control of the truck or plow... just an accident and not even your fault, Your rig is going to be looked at with the most demanding eyes. If something is found that doesn't 'look right', it's going to hurt.

That bring another question, are aftermarket bumpers legal? They are at least 3/16 or 1/4 so you temper with factory bumper that is meant to collapse and absorb, what trouble a guy can get with beefy bumpers? Damn hijackers...

[angus]

I agree with this statement all the way I can weld many things BUT if anything on my truck needed to be welded I will leave it to our CNC shop welders any day of the week( that would have been the case with this frame had I not chose to bolt it together per manufacture spec.), simply because I know they have repaired computer controlled equipment safely and properly(my fear is always damage to the computer whenever welding on a truck) I know their work I have seen it many times and they weld everyday where as it is a hobby to me. 

 

Anytime you are going to be welding on your truck ..for whatever reason . It is a good idea to unhook your ground cables from the battery first.  I have seen people not do it and get away with it.. but its not worth the risk.

[rancherman]

That bring another question, are aftermarket bumpers legal? They are at least 3/16 or 1/4 so you temper with factory bumper that is meant to collapse and absorb, what trouble a guy can get with beefy bumpers? Damn hijackers...

 

Good  question.    "Legal or  not"

 

I guarantee you,    if   an  accident occurs  with  injury or  death of your    passenger or   occupant of   other  vehicle..      the    insurance companies    will have  a field day   with   the poor  bastard   that  has   a  custom  'anything'.   

[MoparFreak1988]

Good  question.    "Legal or  not"

 

I guarantee you,    if   an  accident occurs  with  injury or  death of your    passenger or   occupant of   other  vehicle..      the    insurance companies    will have  a field day   with   the poor  bastard   that  has   a  custom  'anything'.   

Funny you hijacked Dieselfuture because I was wondering the same as I am currently building bumpers for my truck...  What I can say is I have two friends that work for the state police and they were the ones telling me about SAE DOT stamps and if they are not there you may be held liable for any and all modifications...  

Some points for thought they brought up.

• Wisconsin State Police protocols mandate in an injury accident the officer must document

1. what headlights were in the vehicle down to the brand of bulbs as well as if the bulbs were on and functioning or not.
2. was the vehicle suspension brakes or frame clearly modified.
3. If any of the above mentioned modifications are found or the headlight fail to have a SAE DOT stamp the vehicle will be sent out for off site inspection
4. This means they will scrutinize everything down to whether or not you used a grade 5 or a grade 8 bolt...   

•  this even comes down to me and you putting new brake pads in our truck and if they fail causing injure or god forbid death they may and most likely will try to charge you if you can't prove you have the qualifications to change those brakes....

So I wonder the legality of aftermarket bumpers 

Edited January 14, 2015 by MoparFreak1988

[Dieselfuture]

Sounds like these days everybody is out for blood so I guess it doesn't meter, money will talk at that time. If you're broke probably be screwed ether way. I got bumpers I made front and back and I drive slower than most and learned my lessons then I was younger, so hopefully if someone hits me my bumpers will help and I'm going to continue use cushion as I drive and try not to hit anyone. Plus I invested in good qwality dash cam, hopefully will never have to use it as proof but sure is a good backup. Maybe I'll get a shot of meteor one day.

P.S. I had a few Duce and half's and trying to get them registered was a pain, I had to prove to dot that they were legal and even then they gave me titles and notice that if for some reason in future they fill otherwise they have full right to take titles away. Took me just over a year to get it done and almost made me pay sales tax again after I payed it to government site I got them from.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Dieselfuture

[MoparFreak1988]

Good point Diesel I plan to install a camera in my rig for reasons other than just accidents...  as far as I am concerned if they hit me I am not responsible.

the camera will be there for the other idiots out there and the police officer that over steps his bounds... which happens quite often out here  (I digress for a moment and express anger at our country and state which allowed officers to arrest and detain people that were video taping officers on duty,  the same ones that tried to arrest me when walking home from a bar rather than driving  all because I didn't have an ID)