Hi all,

I was wondering if we could start a good fuel additive thread, something that covers 2 stroke in depth as well as other conventional, off the shelf stuff. Also, what adding cetane does, and how sulfur factors in and parts per million and emulsifiers an all. I bring this up because I was part of a recent thread on another forum where a guy was asking for opinions on Howe's Diesel Treat. I commented that I would just stick with 2 stroke unless you are somewhere really cold, then I would add PS white bottle too, in the appropriate amount of course. Anyway someone chimed in claiming that 2 stroke is mostly just kerosene, and that he had the MSDS to prove it. Same person also said they would use a little gasoline as an antigel. I've seen an MSDS for 2 stroke and I'm pretty sure there was no kerosene on it. I guess what I'm saying is, I'd just like to learn a lot more about fuel and additives and I know there are some guys out there who know all there is to know and I'd like to pick their brains! 

Thanks to anyone who chimes in!

52 minutes ago, notlimah said:

 

So really there's not a huge need to add extra filtration on the FASS systems?

I dont see why unless you just want it. My AD works the same way. I do have it plumbed thru the oe filter canister with a big line kit but at this time there is no filter in it. Been meaning to put one back in, just cant seem to remember to buy one.

It is different thinking to me cause putting on the dual filter set up ( I'm assuming are inseparable) negates the ability to a put a large micron w/s filter, pre lift pump and a small micron after the lift pump.  A large micron may not be more restrictive than a screen, I don't know, if large enough but, you get better water separation abilitty before the lift pump gets a chance to egg beat it into micro droplets where it can't be separated

 

. This discussion is interesting ...  I could be way off base here

Edited June 27, 20168 yr by JAG1

1 hour ago, JAG1 said:

It is different thinking to me cause putting on the dual filter set up ( I'm assuming are inseparable) negates the ability to a put a large micron w/s filter, pre lift pump and a small micron after the lift pump.  A large micron may not be more restrictive than a screen, I don't know, if large enough but, you get better water separation abilitty before the lift pump gets a chance to egg beat it into micro droplets where it can't be separated

 

. This discussion is interesting ...  I could be way off base here

Normally they would not be separable, however, if one were to just get the filter heads like @Buzzinhalfdozen recomended, I would think you could put one before the Fuel Boss for large micron and water separation, and one after for fine filtering. That is a great idea and would be the perfect solution! I'll email Richard and ask him about that. Do you have any recommendations for a large micron/water separator that might be free flowing enough for the fuel boss? It would have to be 24 mic or larger I'd say, because that's what that strainer is....

Like Mike said prior...................I started a thread over on CF years ago, that wound up being the BIGGEST thread on the site for years...................much to the chagrin of the MODS over there at the time.  And to be totally honest here;  I didn't come up with this myself, I first heard of running 2 stroke oil as a diesel fuel additive from a fellow on DieselRam.com.............................I then tried it, posted my positive findings on CF, and then Mike got on his steamroller and the rest is history!!!

 

 

It's not listed as such, but 2 stroke IMNTBHO, acts as an anti-gel aid also in the cold months.  2 stroke oil is formulated to flow in "oil injected" snowmobile engines down to -50*F.  So adding to diesel has to help IMHO.

 

I've used nothing but 2 stroke oil as a fuel additive in my '04.5 since I started that thread...............10 years or so now.  Almost 241,000 miles on MightyWhitey now

Alright so I've asked Richard all these questions and basically the answer is do not run anything other than a strainer, at most, before the fuel boss if you want them to honor a warranty claim, should you have one. Richard said he personally would not do it. He said one bad batch of fuel could plug the prefilter enough to ruin the pump. So if I want extra filtration my only option is to replace the stock canister or do extra plumbing. I think for now I'll just keep running the Baldwin pf7977's.

Wow that's interesting.... contrary to anything I've ever read I would do what Richard is saying but make sure you run both filters. Could run the oem filter as an option by plumbing into to the oem filter in an emergency if you ever got a bad batch of fuel.

 

Dorkweed I thank you for starting the 2 cycle thing. My 12 valve used to run like crap on the new ULSD and then tried 30 wt. oil. tI was better but since I heard the 2 stroke idea, I've gone all for it. It makes a noticeable difference.

I remember when I first used it and noticed the engine was quieter. The looks that I got when I told my non diesel friends a family that it ran quieter were priceless. Not a soul believed the quieter part. Thanks to all who had a hand it. How could you not trust a man who keeps a chord of wood in his toilet. Thanks DW.

10 hours ago, dripley said:

How could you not trust a man who keeps a chord of wood in his toilet. Thanks DW.

 

Not to mention trusting a guy that lives in Idaho without a Idaho potato field...

 

The whole problem back in the day was the idea of using waste engine oil for lubricant in the fuel. This was a very common practice back 12V engine being those fuel system could eat anything without much problem. The problem stemmed from the fact of modern engine oils started adding other materials which added to the ash problem. It other word these material would not cleanly burn and leave deposits on the injectors on pistons.

 

 

WEO injectors

 

 

As you can see the ash problem could mess up a good spray pattern rather quickly and there is no way to clean this off but to remove the injector and physically remove the build up no fuel additive can clean this. So the 2 cycle oil came into play because it completely ashless and leaves no deposits. This is one of my stock injectors after 85k miles of 2 cycle oil.

 

 

So... The ash problem was cured with 2 cycle oil. Then the HFRR was cured as well with 2 cycle oil. 200:1 ratio is 474 HFRR and 128 ratio is more closer to 380 HFRR or so (Unofficial testing).

 

Clean oil so its not going to put debris in the costly VP44 injection pump or your injectors. Not like waste engine oil could have all kind of debris and water. So that problem was solved.

 

Oils are a natural BTU enhancer since they pack more BTU's but burn slower it typically reduced cetane numbers. So most folks seen at least 1-2 MPG gain in use.

 

(Dark green summer fuel and light green winter fuel)

 

Edited June 28, 20168 yr by Mopar1973Man

You dont really need a potato field. The one off the tractor trailer used as a landscape stone would do nicely.

694 miles on my last tank of fuel, filled up with just over 32 gallons of diesel for a 21.6mpg average.  That's tossing in 16oz. of 2 stroke oil.  I run a lower ratio of 2 stroke in my '04.5 HPCR than y'all with the VP44's.

1 hour ago, dorkweed said:

 I run a lower ratio of 2 stroke in my '04.5 HPCR than y'all with the VP44's.

 

This is true. CR Engine tend to like the 200:1 ratio better than 128:1 that the VP44 engine like better. As you'll see @dorkweed is using actually 256:1 ratio. 128:1 ratio is 1 ounce of oil for every gallon. 256:1 ratio is 1 ounce for every two gallons of fuel. On 12V and 24V engines you can run about 100:1 ratio without much issues but... As you get heavier it tend to add more of grey tint to the exhaust.

In all honesty guys;  I could probably get by with running only 12oz. or even only 8oz. of 2 stroke oil in my '04.5.  Most every station that I buy fuel at has the sticker on the pump that reads essentially that the fuel is a bio-blend;  with the bio being anywhere's from 5-20%!!!  I guessing here that the actual ratio of the blend is dependent on market prices of bio and straight diesel.  Just saying here.

 

Mike..............It may not be posted on the pumps out by you, buy most everywhere that I travel around the country, there is the stickers on the diesel pumps indicating that it's a blend.  Florida, Wisconsin, Minnesota, NoDak, SoDak, Iowa, Indiana, Kentucky, Missouri, Michigan, Ohio, and Arkansas all have the stickers..........................Just saying, not arguing!!

 

I have not seen any bio blend stickers yet here.  I wish I did, but oh well.

Oregon is mandated biodiesel state I think B5. 

 

Idaho is still a 100% petroleum diesel state.

 

As far as what I know that there is laws that state than if there is change in fuel content it must be stated at the pump.

From my limited research anything 5% and below does NOT have to be labeled. Also from speaking to some of the Love's people they get a rebate from the Feds of $0.50 a gallon for the bio they use. The number thrown out during the conversation was they received neat $110,000,000 last year for selling bio. Zeros left in on purpose. That encourages any fuel station to sell it. Stations out my way are either marked 15% or not at all. My truck does like it and I have cut back on 2 stroke to one half quart to the tank. Though I still think I am getting straight #2 sometimes.