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I try to be proactive towards the maintenance of my truck rather than reactive.....

 

Knowing that the OEM Bosch alternator had almost 120k miles on it, I felt that not only was it probably going to give me DC troubles in the near future but I was also sure that I was most likely experiencing some AC issues as well, especially during the cold morning and hot summer weather.  

Why I say that....?  I've tested my AC voltage before during the summer and it was within "spec", but still I thought the readings were higher than I'd like.  So I recently tested again before installing the Nations unit just to confirm and what I got was about .044 during idle.  Yes thats acceptable but also understanding that its 35* outside and the engines warm enough that the grids are not cycling, I felt that there was nowhere for the AC readings to go but up.  Meaning, as the weather gets warmer and/or the alternator is powering more accessories, the AC voltage reading will only increase.

 

Alternators will produce the least amount of AC at idle with little to no electronics running.  But ramp the throttle up to around 2000 - 2500 RPM, turning on every electrical component and the readings will always increase as the diodes work at converting.  I saw that the last time I tested it in the summer so I felt I'm justified in replacing before problems arise.  Plus I noticed a considerable amount of red brush dust on the tensioner pulley (seen in the picture) which reassured me that it was getting old.

 

Alternator%20dust_zpsmwlapjil.jpg

 

So I've decided to replace it.  Exploring my options, they are as usual.....  To either rebuild my current one, get an over the counter "lifetime warranty" parts store unit and hope for the best, or look for one of the few high dollar units available out there in the aftermarket world.  Well given money is always a variable, I chose to go with the Nations unit I've heard good things about.  Not only are they priced what I consider to be reasonable for what you get but they're also American made.  Plus if I have trouble, I'd rather deal with Nations than deal with either Autozone, NAPA, O'Reilly, etc... and risk delicate electronics on this truck.  Yes, I could have had it rebuilt but I'd still have an alternator that may or may not generate more AC than I'd like because of the windings and diode count, but I'm sure I'd probably have battle with the small shop explaining what I want and why, since most places are more concerned with DC output rather than what the AC voltage readings are.

 

This is the one I opted for.  180 amp, hairpin wound, 12 diodes, and uses the stock pulled size. http://www.nationsstarteralternator.com/180-Amp-HP-High-Output-Alternator-for-2000-Dodge-p/13874-180-hp.htm

 

Just to be clear.....what I was experiencing with the OEM alternator was the norm and had been this way for years.  That said, typically the volt gauge in the cold mornings would do as described:
Turn key ON, gauge drops to the lower portion of the "normal" range.
Start engine when WTS light turns off.
Gauge immediately drops back down to the lower portion of normal as the grid cycles on again.
Gauge starts to climb rapidly as the grid cycles off.
Seconds later the grid cycles on again and the gauge dips down to the lower portion of normal.

 

This back and forth takes places for a few minutes depending on the ambient temperature.  And when it does, the engine clearly lets me know that the grids are cycling by either making the tell-tale noise of loading down from the alternator drag, and/or I can get a slight momentary idle lope only to immediately regain regular idle.
The lights dim considerably as well and the volt gauge generally reaches just a tick over 14 volts when its completed the event or I drive off.

 

Well after the install of the Nations unit this is what takes place:
Turn key ON, gauge drops to the lower portion of the "normal" range.
Start engine when WTS light turns off.
Gauge does NOT drop back down to the lower portion of normal as the grid cycles on again, but rather remains up around 14 volts.
Gauge moves a tad higher than 14 volts as the grid cycles off.
Seconds later the grid cycles on again and the gauge drops no lower than 14 volts.

 

As before, this back and forth takes places for a few minutes depending on the ambient temperature.  But this time the engine does NOT react the same but rather hardly lets me know that the grids are cycling.  There is no tell-tale noise of loading down from the alternator drag and I seemingly had no slight momentary lope during that moment either.
I cant say about the lighting at this point because I havent driven it during the night since the new alternator was installed.  But I'm going to guess that they will not dim nearly as much given that the alternator appears to be cranking out more amperage during idle while creating less load on the engine.  I also tested the AC voltage as soon as I installed the Nations unit, while during the same cold weather, and saw about .020.  I'll be testing it some more as the weather warms too.

 

Lastly, I would say that of the few times I've driven it since the install the engine has slightly better manners during the cold weather.  This only further supports the understanding that these trucks are VERY susceptible to electronic anomalies and the alternators are absolutely something to pay attention to. :thumbup2:

Edited by KATOOM

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I received my Nations 180 amp alternator and installed it today. I'm getting a fluctuating reading of .036-.042 VAC. For reference, the factory Bosch unit I replaced was putting out a steady .035 VAC. Is it possible I made a mistake somewhere on install?

I'm placing the positive lead from my DVM on the B+ terminal on the alternator and the negative lead on the negative terminal of my passenger side battery while engine idles (warm with grid heaters not cycling).

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Ground to the alternator body otherwise you can get false readings depending on the battery.

 

If the results are the same then you might want to give Nations a call.....

 

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll give it a shot in the morning.

 It may take some time for it to break in, brushes to armature can create ac noise when brand new, give it little time and check it again, also make sure all grounds are in good shape, for that matter all connections. Mine been around that since I rebuild it with no side effects, before I rebuild it it was close to .06 I belive at idle and over .1 reving up. 

A while back I created an article with known high-output alternators. @GSP7 at that time sent me a link to nations starters and alternators... and a lot of their website pictures have pictures of alternators from DC Power Engineering (I think they may resell and also re-brand them) So I excluded them from the list as they didn't appear to make their own.

 

ex: https://www.nationsstarteralternator.com/13988-180HP-High-Amp-Alternator-for-2004-2005-Dodg-p/13988-180hp.htm

 

I use DC Power Engineering alternators in all of my vehicles. only issue I've had is when they are cold, they sound like a supercharger whining on my gasers... (I wish)

 

 

Edited by wh82

I ordered an altenator from nations for my '99 I emailed them and asked them to check and ensure it was the correct altenator for my application.  From the part numbers I have seen it seems as if this might not be correct?

 

13874-180hp

 

Ive had the nations 180amp for a little over a year now as well and have no complaints at all

I ordered my new Nations alt yesterday, it will be here Monday. I’ll report the numbers. It was a 13874-180HP btw, I called to confirm. 99-03

 

 

Although once I unhooked my grid heaters everything is working perfectly and my noise is reasonable so I dont even think I need the new alternator haha

 

Edited by s10010001

  • 1 month later...

Follow up on this, I finally got around to installing it. .012, holy crap, I measured my old alternator just before I pulled it and it was .042. 

 

 

B463EC9A-407A-4BE2-B30B-5CDCF09A8BCA.jpeg

E4D8CF1E-AA48-4F14-9200-BAA21D87FC7C.jpeg

It may take a bit for brushes to wear in place and it should go down, but if it's been like that for a while something isn't right. Are you measuring at alternator and all accessories off including grid heaters. 

Edit, ignore this post I looked at decimal point in wrong place, though it was .12 not sure why. Good news for you though. 

Edited by Dieselfuture
Screwd up

37 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

It may take a bit for brushes to wear in place and it should go down, but if it's been like that for a while something isn't right. Are you measuring at alternator and all accessories off including grid heaters. 

Edit, ignore this post I looked at decimal point in wrong place, though it was .12 not sure why. Good news for you though. 

 

yup, 0.012.. thats pretty good if you ask me :)

Edited by s10010001

  • 8 months later...

Because of this thread I just placed an order for a Nations alternator since I lost another brand new Bosh alternator from Napa tonight.  Ridiculous when the original went almost 200k, and the "new" replacements last only 30k and a couple of years.

I don't want to piss on anyone's parade, but my experience differs from that of others here. In fact, I purchased and installed a Nations alternator due to the positive reputation they had via this thread and others. Unfortunately, the Nations alternator had higher AC noise than the 175,000 mile stock alternator when installed. I attempted to contact Adam Nations repeatedly over the two month period post installation regarding this, via email, voicemail, and messages left with other employees of the company. At no time did anyone from Nations ever respond to my inqueries in a way other than "Adam will get back with you". I never heard back once. The AC noise has slowly crept up, not down, as some members here would have you believe happens with new alternators. 

 I dont like hearing that about Nations. I had leaning towards their product for while. Hopefully they help you resolve the problem. That being said the mod that Mike mentions is a big helper of AC noise. I have about 100k on an Auto Zone alternator and the AC voltage had gotten up to .035. After doing the mod my AC voltage dropped to .01. It is a worthwhile and fairly simple thing to do.

What kind of AC readings are seeing?

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8 hours ago, Bafazane said:

I don't want to piss on anyone's parade, but my experience differs from that of others here. In fact, I purchased and installed a Nations alternator due to the positive reputation they had via this thread and others. Unfortunately, the Nations alternator had higher AC noise than the 175,000 mile stock alternator when installed. I attempted to contact Adam Nations repeatedly over the two month period post installation regarding this, via email, voicemail, and messages left with other employees of the company. At no time did anyone from Nations ever respond to my inqueries in a way other than "Adam will get back with you". I never heard back once. The AC noise has slowly crept up, not down, as some members here would have you believe happens with new alternators. 

 

Interesting...  I would like to know more about your situation.  Like did you notice the AC noise right after installation?  Did you contact Nations immediately?  You have a 30 day return and a minimum 1 year warranty unless you opted for an additional warranty which is plenty of time to address your situation if it played out as you described.  I'm not saying I dont believe what you're saying but I'm having a hard time believing that Nations completely ignored your request and is leaving you high and dry as if nothing happened.

In saying that, if the AC truly is creeping up then why are you continuing to run that alternator?  It would be in your best interest to stop driving the truck until this is resolved, if possible.

1 hour ago, KATOOM said:

 

Interesting...  I would like to know more about your situation.  Like did you notice the AC noise right after installation?  Did you contact Nations immediately?  You have a 30 day return and a minimum 1 year warranty unless you opted for an additional warranty which is plenty of time to address your situation if it played out as you described.  I'm not saying I dont believe what you're saying but I'm having a hard time believing that Nations completely ignored your request and is leaving you high and dry as if nothing happened.

In saying that, if the AC truly is creeping up then why are you continuing to run that alternator?  It would be in your best interest to stop driving the truck until this is resolved, if possible.

 

I haven't made the W-T ground mod yet, it's in the works though.

 

As far as how this played out: I tested the AC noise immediately upon installation of the new alternator. The readings were fluctuating between .036-.042. That was in February, and I did immediately contact Nations. The AC reading in September had crept to .037-.047. The OE Bosch alternator was reading a steady .035 when I removed it.

 

I suppose I should just swap the Bosch back in and try again with Nations.