Good afternoon! I'm brand new to the forums here, and brand new to the diesel world. This site looks like the best community of 2nd gen Cummins addicts I could find anywhere, so I am honored to join and learn from you, and hopefully one day contribute to helping others as well.

 

Hopefully this is an appropriate place for an introduction, I really enjoy reading the intros from some of you and learning about how your trucks are setup, and their history, so here's a shortened version of mine:

I bought this 2001.5 from a family member who bought it brand new. He purposefully waited until the 2001.5 version to get the disc brakes in back. It has always been meticulously maintained, and was completely stock when I got it. Well, other than driving better than when it was new. Quite a bit of time was put into getting the steering right, I don't know what exactly it has up front that is different than stock, but I can see one of the steering "kits" up there. Whatever it is works, because it drives straighter and with much less steering play than my dad's 99 half ton Ram. This one is also a little unique in that it has the plow-prep package, which I was told includes stiffer springs in front, and the camper package so it has an extra leaf spring in back. So it sits quite a bit taller than others I've been next to, and rides like an oak tree. Actually, it rides much better with an oak tree sitting in the back.

 

I haven't done much to it. A buddy owed me a favor and installed a 2" coil spacer to level out the front, at the same time we put in Bilstein 5100s. Just the front for now, I have a set for the rear on order but haven't gotten them yet. I also removed the turbo silencer ring because I was new to diesel and excited to whistle, and of course youtube told me that would make it whistle! As you all know, removing that ring does absolutely nothing to how loud you hear the turbo, at least to my ear, so I also installed a BHAF (not just for the whistle). I can't remember for sure as this was last summer, but I am pretty sure the motivation for the BHAF came from Mopar1973Man himself, before I knew how famous you were in this sector. I then showed my dad what I had done and mentioned something about "wonder if I should put a heat shield on that" - and the next thing I knew he had made me one, out of diamond plate. You can see that in one of the pics.

 

Otherwise it's all stock. Always had FleetGuard filters, oil always changed every 5k, it's never even seen the inside of a car wash, always washed by hand. I'll try my best to maintain it as well as he did, but it's winter now and my garage isn't heated, so that last one may have to change.

 

She likes to haul firewood. Oh, and you can see the Cummins sticker on the back, which of course adds 80hp at the wheels, what I've been told. ;)

 

And the fact that it's stock is the reason I ended up on your site and why I wanted to post this message in the first place. Fuel delivery. The good, the bad, and the ugly. The history on my truck is that around 80k the lift pump was replaced with the in-tank by a dealer. They did this just because he had read that they were a common problem and wanted to make it "right" (what they considered to be right at the same, this was in 2008 or so). 100 miles after replacing the lift pump with the in-tank, the VP44 died. I assume the old lift pump was actually bad and the replacement put the VP over the edge. So it got a brand new VP44 from the dealer as well. I just rolled over 154k with it, and the more I read the more I worry. So I got gauges. And found I only have about 8psi idle, and if I stomp on it I can dip it below 5.

 

I didn't want to create a new forum post to cover information that already exists in so many posts already, and so I searched your forums for anything fuel related, and I read ALL of them. And I thought I had decided on what I was going to do - FASS 150 titanium with a Draw Straw V, until I saw someone mention a Fuel Boss. Then I saw someone else say Fuel Boss, then it seemed like every post I read had at least one comment in it about the Fuel Boss! Lol. So I'm hoping to get a little further insight there. FASS vs Fuel Boss - ideas? Good, bad, indifferent? One consideration is that it sounds like some are using the Fuel Boss with no electric pump whatsoever. Over the long haul, will that be hard on the VP44 to be pulling its own fuel during startup? What if I do something like install a Fuel Boss hooked to a Beans sump...? That way I could leave my in-tank stock pump in place, since it still works? But if I do that, I'm confused as to how I would plumb it properly, since I cannot plumb the T from the Fuel Boss into the in-tank pump, they would be pulling from separate fuel sources. Would that even work? I am not opposed to going FASS+DrawStraw, though I'm not super excited about dropping the tank just because I've never done it before. But if I can make Fuel Boss+Beans Sump workable, it's possible I could get all this working without even having to touch the top of the fuel tank...? Let me know if you see holes in my theory, because I'm sure I'm missing something important that will leave me stuck.

 

Thank you so much, and it's great to be part of this group!

I've not heard of any belts breaking as of yet for the fuel Boss pump setup. 

My in tank pump, about a year old at the time was putting out 5 at idle and near 0 at WOT. Way lower than the pressures advised at the time. Just was not any fun since I paid a dealer almost a grand for it.

10 hours ago, dripley said:

My in tank pump, about a year old at the time was putting out 5 at idle and near 0 at WOT. Way lower than the pressures advised at the time. Just was not any fun since I paid a dealer almost a grand for it.

Them dirty bastards, I feel your pain. Took wife's car in to dealer for a rear bumper replacement and at first it was 1700 and day and half, ended up being 2800 and over 2 weeks. Hate dealers with passion. This was insurance claim hit and run, she got guys plates so cops found him and he confessed. But no insurance or license, and her car is a lease, so she took it to dealer she got it from, we paid 500 deductible. Finally got car back and bumper is on there with a huge gap 1/2" on one side and sticking out, told her you better take it back or I will, but it won't be pretty. She took care of it and got a free car wash out it. What a waste of time these  ( bad word ) are. Not the first time erher dealer not giving a rats ***. I could go on for a while, but wife is happy got her new car back. Women. Without them the world would stop turning. 

Guys, thanks again for all the advice on this topic. I finally decided on a solution and finished installing it this week.

 

I ended up going with a GDP Fuel Boss mechanical pump that is fed from a Beans Diesel Sump. Going the route of the sump solved the following issues I was concerned about:

1. It allowed me to continue using my in-tank pump as a backup. Since I didn’t have to modify the basket at all, my in-tank pump is still sitting there happily running whenever I need it to.
2. I never had to drop the tank or even touch the top of it! It was nice not to have to worry about dropping the tank for a draw-straw install, and I never even had to touch the top to try and unplug the wiring harness or anything. For the Fuel Boss install you do have to cut one of the lead wires that supplies power to the in-tank electric pump, but I tracked it down under the hood and cut into it there instead.
3. No potential quarter tank issues since there is no draw straw. I know some people have gotten their straws installed well enough that this isn’t a problem, but there are many more stories on forums about people that do have ¼ tank issues after installing draw straws, so it is nice not to have to worry about that.

 

I got both positive and negative feedback on doing a sump, but I’m glad I did it for the reasons above. It works great so far. I installed a shut-off valve on the sump so if anything ever did happen to the hose or if I need to shut it off for whatever reason I can just turn the valve. It also has a drain plug so if I ever do need to empty the tank and remove it for whatever reason, that will be easy too.

 

I wanted to update this thread because I never found a lot of information about whether or not a Fuel Boss could co-exist with the in-tank pump, but it definitely can. Here's a little story to prove that the electric still works as a backup: It’s common for “tank gunk” to have to flush its way out of the system following installation, since you kick up debris and stuff when you empty the tank. Shortly after I installed the Fuel Boss I got on the throttle pretty hard and my pressure went up close to 20, and when I let off the pedal something must have gotten stuck in the bypass valve and held the piston open because my pressure suddenly dropped down to 5. It stayed between 5-8psi the rest of the way home. I figured something must be stuck in the bypass, holding it open, but before I took apart the bypass valve and cleaned it out, I experimented a little. If I unplugged my electric pump my pressure would read zero when running. The bypass was allowing so much "overflow" fuel past it with the piston stuck open that my gauge was registering zero, yet when I was driving home I never saw zero, it held itself at 5 or above. I say this to prove that the Hobbs switch which tells the electric pump to engage when pressure drops is an immediate reaction. As soon as my pressure dropped the electric pump kicked in and I never even noticed in the truck, except that I was watching my fuel pressure gauge like a hawk because I was only a few miles into it after having installed everything.

 

By the way, I took the bypass valve apart (super easy), put it back together, and I’ve never seen that symptom again. It takes about 30 seconds to pop the bypass off, so even if this happened on the road it would be very easy to fix it with two crescent wrenches.

 

Hopefully this post isn't too long. I created a video with some detail on how I ran everything and how I did the wiring, if anyone is ever interested in doing one of these installs. Otherwise there are pictures and descriptions down below.

 

 

Sump on bottom of tank goes with 3/8” lines straight up to the Fuel Boss that is mounted via the front three oil pan bolts. The only thing in-line on the way to the pump is a fuel strainer that comes with the Fuel Boss install kit. I mounted this on the driver’s side of the transmission for easy access to change it out in the future.

 

 

Then from the Fuel Boss you head back to a “T” that is directly underneath the fuel filter canister.

 

From the T you go both to the back of the truck, as well as upward toward the filter. On the line that goes to the back, you install the bypass valve. This is what opens at roughly 18psi and allows excess fuel to return to the tank. I hung the bypass valve right by that fuel strainer, so they are both super easy to access.

 

Then from the bypass valve you just run to the back and return to the tank. I cut the filler neck hose and inserted the return manifold there. Again, for this I did not have to drop the tank or even have to remove the filler hose – I just cut 1” out of it right where it was.

 

Moving back toward the front, the top of the “T” as you can see in one of the above pictures heads directly north toward the fuel filter. In this section of line you install the Hobbs switch which tells the electric pump when to turn on or off. Two wires go from the Hobbs switch to one of the lead wires for the electric pump. I cut into those wires right behind my master cylinder. If your stock lift pump is still on the block you’ll have to tap into them in another place, but mine was so easy to get to:

 

Before you hook your new line to the back of the fuel filter canister, figure out how you are going to plumb in your factory supply line from the electric pump. I ran a new piece of hose from the metal hard line under the driver’s seat up directly to the filter. You have to install a check valve in this line (comes with the Fuel Boss kit) so that the Fuel Boss doesn’t back-feed down this stock supply line. In some cases you can probably re-use the factory dorman connector and tap back into the dummy “fuel block” that Dodge put in place of where the on-block pump used to be, but mine looked gross and rusty so I bypassed that whole mess and went directly to the fuel filter with both my Fuel Boss supply line as well as my factory supply line. I used a banjo to 3/8” quick connect fitting for the factory line, and then a JIC 90 for the Fuel Boss supply line.

 

And that’s it! While I had the whole fuel system apart I also installed a big line kit between the filter and the VP with a needle valve and snubber for my gauge in that run.

 

I hope this helps someone else be able to make the decision on which direction to go. Installing a FASS or AirDog would have been much simpler, but I'm glad I took the extra time up front so that I now have dual pumps in the event that something goes wrong while I'm on the road.

 

Jordan

 

On 1/4/2017 at 2:48 PM, jokra said:

What if I do something like install a Fuel Boss hooked to a Beans sump...

 

Be aware that any sump kit or bottom tank feed is illegal for highway use. 

 

Nice choice! 

 

I was in the same boat as you a while ago and went with a FASS 150 just because I wanted the extra filtration but I was like really close to buying the fuel boss. Seeing threads like this make me wish I did go that route sometimes but so far so good with my FASS!

I read over the DOT information, and came away with the conclusion that sumps are perfectly legal. Here are the details on what I found. Please correct me if I read any of this wrong, as I do really want to understand this, but I couldn’t find anything in here that tells me a sump on the bottom of a diesel tank is illegal on these trucks:

 

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2011-title49-vol5/pdf/CFR-2011-title49-vol5-sec393-67.pdf

 

Regarding 393.65:

 

The “gravity or syphon feed prohibited” absolutely does NOT apply to our trucks. This is clearly taken out of context by that one website and only relates to feeding directly into the carb or injector.

 

• (d) Gravity or syphon feed prohibited. A fuel system must not supply fuel by gravity or syphon feed directly to the carburetor or injector.

 

Furthermore, down a little ways in the fuel lines section it even references a sump and the fact that any fuel lines which are more than 2” below the tank or the sump need to be protected:

 

• (f) Fuel lines. A fuel line which is not completely enclosed in a protective housing must not extend more than 2 inches below the fuel tank or its sump. Diesel fuel crossover, return, and withdrawal lines which extend below the bottom of the tank or sump must be protected against damage from impact.

 

Regarding 393.67:

 

And then regarding anything found in 393.67 – this does not apply to most personal trucks, unless you are using it commercially. It states at the beginning of 393.67 that these rules are for commercial motor vehicles, as opposed to 393.65 which states just “motor vehicles”:

 

• (a)    Application of the rules in this section. The rules in this section apply to tanks containing or supplying fuel for the operation of commercial motor vehicles or for the operation of auxiliary equipment installed on, or used in connection with commercial motor vehicles.

 

Even if we did have to conform to 393.67, rule #4 under construction of tanks shows that a drain or bottom fitting must not extend more than ¾” lower than the tank or sump. There again it references a sump as a valid option.

 

• (4) Drains and bottom fittings. (i) Drains or other bottom fittings must not extend more than three-fourths of an inch below the lowest part of the fuel tank or sump.

 

And then #5 shows us that diesel tanks are exempt from the requirement that fittings be located above the normal fuel level, so that one doesn’t apply to us either.

 

• (5) Fuel withdrawal fittings. Except for diesel fuel tanks, the fittings through which fuel is withdrawn from a fuel tank must be located above the normal level of fuel in the tank when the tank is full.