New annual member here. I'm hoping someone on this site can help figure out what's causing the stall issue.

Without writing a novel, as I have on other forums, I'll be as brief as possible and try to provide as much info to help repliers and to ward off 50million posts that will just skew and clog this thread. In advance, no offense intended and I welcome all well thought thru replies, Thanks.

 

I acquired my truck (wish I could figure out how to create a signature?) in May of 2001 it had 75k on it and bone stock.

July 2001 installed gauges: combo boost/egt, fuel psi and trans temp.

Spring 2003 with 130k trans started slipping, had DTT master rebuild done. Outside of trans build, alignments and tire installations "no one" has wrenched on my truck but me.

Fall 2003 Formula1 (now FDI) Mach 1.6 (85hp) injectors, Edge Comp (VP tapped) and relocate LP to frame. At some point I got it on a chassis dyno and it rolled like 350hp & 790tq.

Fall 2006 Mach 5 (200hp), HTT QD 64/14 turbo, Vulcan Draw Straw, Walbro pusher pump, big line (1/2) kit and spin on filter at frame. Spring Fling 2007 rolled 525hp & 1000tq. 

March 2009 original VP just died. New VP installed back on-line.

Fast forward to Fall 2020 and 260k miles, hazing at idle more than I cared for, sent injectors to F1 for a refresh figured they were pretty old and had in excess of 130k miles or so on them it was time to give the old gal a tune-up.

Immediately after receiving and installing the injectors the truck began stalling when placed in gear (Drive-D or Reverse-R) or if it didn't stall the idle (850) would violently/quickly drop to 500 and then jump back to 850.

 

There's more to the story since Fall 2020, but don't want to create a novel in my first post and don't want to skew fresh thoughts from you all with things done since then.

 

Have at it guys and gals. I so look forward to your replies.

Yeah I know the feeling... I think I've got a permanent hood latch rash on my lower part of my ribs.

9 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Yeah I know the feeling... I think I've got a permanent hood latch rash on my lower part of my ribs.

Right 

Sorry about this hijack but I read through this since I have a similar issue that has never been resolved, (since I bought last year) my 02 auto has been stalling out when I put into gear , (only when cold) since purchased and a few things caught my attention.

 In beginning of this post moparman asked about engine load, and said it should be around 7-10%?

I find that interesting in the fact that mine sits well above 20 when warm. (In gear) I've posted this before and seems no one ever blinked and eye?

Can anyone tell me if this is too exsessive ??

Is this because of too tight converter?

 I've pretty much resigned myself to accept stalling unless I hold the brakes and throttle up a bit, hold it for 5 sec or so then drive it normally.

 Seems likely that it has to be converter too tight?

Funny how the guy I bought it from said he learned to live with it after trans rebuild, then I call the shop that did the job and they say they've never heard of such a thing! Maybe never heard of Google? Though admittedly not a lot of info on the subject, it is "a thing".

I suppose as long as it's not hurting anything I'll just live with until....?

 Any thoughts, thanks!

@JoeMcaz, hopefully you got yours figured out!

 

It's warm and NOT in gear, you are measuring the load the fuel injection pump exerts on the engine not the tork and trans so in neutral, my injectors are done.... load is all over the place and 850 idle but no trans mods so with a quad I ain't putting injectors in it yet, I reckon if I stomped it on my daily tune on max some of my trans would be stuck to the soles of my boots with holes in the floor    how nice it is to have cream crackered injectors

Runs good no smoke...... they good

1 hour ago, wil440 said:

It's warm and NOT in gear, you are measuring the load the fuel injection pump exerts on the engine not the tork and trans so in neutral, my injectors are done.... load is all over the place and 850 idle but no trans mods so with a quad I ain't putting injectors in it yet, I reckon if I stomped it on my daily tune on max some of my trans would be stuck to the soles of my boots with holes in the floor    how nice it is to have cream crackered injectors

Runs good no smoke...... they good

Yeah, thanks as usual I read too fast and skip critical info.

Warm in neutral is 10-13%

Still, cold in gear it reaches close to 40 sitting still, maybe why it stalls?

P.S. what's a cream crackered injector? 😂

Hey JoeMcaz, I used to live in levittown, haven't heard that in a long time! I was in 3rd-4th grade, I'm 59 now, you do the math. I've been in Idaho since mid '70s, all I remember is living by a park that had a creek going through and in spring it would flood to about a quarter mi wide. And the wild spring cleaning that was like a yard sale at every other house, only they were throwing stuff away.

Oh yeah, and the same house only different colors as far as the eye can see 😉

6 hours ago, dieseldon said:

P.S. what's a cream crackered injector? 😂

Have you ever heard of Cockney rhyming slang ??    

Typically it about the engine load and the idle RPM. Typically the ECM aims for 800 RPM when the idle validation switch on the APPS is grounded. (Idle position). Now as the injector get older and more mileage the springs get weak inside and injectors start popping lower. This start to increase the duration of the injectors being open. Naturally the idle would rise so the ECM attempts at defueling that and pulling it down hence why the engine load start going down. Now once it hits 0% the ECM can no longer defuel any deeper and so the idle RPM start to rise up. ECM can't hit the 800 RPM target so the engine load is at 0% and idle speed continues to climb as the injectors continue to wear out. If you have a APPS issue and the IVS isn't getting ground signal at the moment of idle then the idle could be higher than the target 800 RPM being now the ECM is told to follow the APPS signal when the idle validation is not grounded. This is why I always suggest a Timbo APPS and ditch the entire voltage adjustment thing.

 

Normal Idle RPM is 800 RPM +/- 10

Normal engine load is typically 5 to 15% of good injectors. 

 

Below 2% you on borrowed time and soon the injectors will be failing.

All good info and appreciate folks sharing (a little hijacking just adds to the thread and good info as well).

 

Now back on topic. Latest is Flux shipped injectors, popped at 280BAR and per tracking number they're slated to arrive "before 7PM" tomorrow=Saturday.

 

Not sure if I'll get to replace them tomorrow, but hope so. Lot's going on with planning to clear out garage, car with no suspension, tool boxes, lighting, air compressor and lines etc. to move to new place... Oh, and the contents of the house too, all before closing on 5/13. Wish me luck

Installed M5s popped @ 280BAR yesterday, no more stalling finally "had" my truck back. Yes "HAD". Took for a run with Edge on 1-3, ran great, let egts cool down, comp on 5-5, ran great. Yee has! Late 1130 last night went for leisurely drive up along the Delaware, 45mph cruise on, life is good, right... I hit a few little bumps and seemed like trans went into N. Tapped the go pedal slightly rpms increased slightly put I N tapped go pedal a little, put back in D, hit resume and all seemed well. I'm like WTF was that all about? Caught light on Jersey side at Washington's Crossing put in N, long *** light. Turns green, put in D, right away something seemed odd, no real bump like usual when put in D, ease down on go pedal and seemed like it was in 3rd, no not 2nd, I put shifter in L and it only hit 2nd. F-ing great right? NOT! Remember my DTT trans needed to be done again? Since DTT had closed shop years back I took truck back to guy that built DTT in 04 or 05, Tim Barber TRE Diesel Performance, all new latest technology friction materials, electronics (transducer, solenoids, new wire harnesses etc.) I also upgraded the torque converter to triple loc (stall built 200 lower than usual on the bottom end), billet input shaft and flex plate. Trans has less than 1,000 miles on it. Now that the engine is no longer stalling, or almost stalling and back to normal my new $5,000.00 trans is going crazy!?!? I'd take it right back to Tim, but that's a 6 hour drive... Was on TDR around 1AM this morning search for 2nd gear start out. Hit a recent (mid-April, 2021) thread same title, because I had experienced 2nd gear start off with DTT years ago I expected the usual posts about gov solenoid, and "since you're there do the transducer too", BUT one guy told of his trans shop finding the trans relay in the PDC was bad and new relay did the trick. I'm hoping since I'm sure my trans relay is original that I get lucky...I ain't doing anything till I speak with Tim. Unbelievable right! Especially since my present home goes to closing 5/13 and I need my truck to haul my totally disassembled 73, 340 Duster 2.5 hours to new place with a friend's trailer I'm borrowing this Thursday and was hopeful to get car moved this weekend, then next week have rest of the house contents moved. When I say "totally disassembled" the only thing left in it is the rear glass = no k member, rear springs just the bare shell. HELP!

Installed M5s popped @ 280BAR yesterday, no more stalling finally "had" my truck back. Yes "HAD". Took for a run with Edge on 1-3, ran great, let egts cool down, comp on 5-5, ran great. Yee has! Late 1130 last night went for leisurely drive up along the Delaware, 45mph cruise on, life is good, right... I hit a few little bumps and seemed like trans went into N. Tapped the go pedal slightly rpms increased slightly put I N tapped go pedal a little, put back in D, hit resume and all seemed well. I'm like WTF was that all about? Caught light on Jersey side at Washington's Crossing put in N, long *** light. Turns green, put in D, right away something seemed odd, no real bump like usual when put in D, ease down on go pedal and seemed like it was in 3rd, no not 2nd, I put shifter in L and it only hit 2nd. F-ing great right? NOT! Remember my DTT trans needed to be done again? Since DTT had closed shop years back I took truck back to guy that built DTT in 04 or 05, Tim Barber TRE Diesel Performance, all new latest technology friction materials, electronics (transducer, solenoids, new wire harnesses etc.) I also upgraded the torque converter to triple loc (stall built 200 lower than usual on the bottom end), billet input shaft and flex plate. Trans has less than 1,000 miles on it. Now that the engine is no longer stalling, or almost stalling and back to normal my new $5,000.00 trans is going crazy!?!? I'd take it right back to Tim, but that's a 6 hour drive... Was on TDR around 1AM this morning search for 2nd gear start out. Hit a recent (mid-April, 2021) thread same title, because I had experienced 2nd gear start off with DTT years ago I expected the usual posts about gov solenoid, and "since you're there do the transducer too", BUT one guy told of his trans shop finding the trans relay in the PDC was bad and new relay did the trick. I'm hoping since I'm sure my trans relay is original that I get lucky...I ain't doing anything till I speak with Tim. Unbelievable right! Especially since my present home goes to closing 5/13 and I need my truck to haul my totally disassembled 73, 340 Duster 2.5 hours to new place with a friend's trailer I'm borrowing this Thursday and was hopeful to get car moved this weekend, then next week have rest of the house contents moved. When I say "totally disassembled" the only thing left in it is the rear glass = no k member, rear springs just the bare shell. HELP!

 

Update, Tuesday 5/4. New transducer, solenoid, filter, check/set bands and new fluid. All good. Electronic parts are what they are I guess. Regardless Tim called this morning to see how I made out. Asked him to call his parts manufacturer and tell them he has an irate customer that just spent 5k for a trans build and in under 1,000 miles their parts failed, customer is asking for new parts, no charge, to be shipped to him. Tim is going to forward email he's sending them and their reply to me.

 

Hopefully, not that it hasn't been fun, this will be my last post on this thread  Have a great remainder of your week folks.

So been a little bit since any update. Got Duster to new place all went well with truck. Got trailer and loaded all boxed items moved to new place, all good with truck. Old house "finally" closed 5/25. Truck has been fine, until...went to visit old Navy buddy we went for a ride and out of nowhere at a stop I'd started out in 2nd, shift into L and trans went to 1st. Didn't do this again for a while, then it would, intermittently. Called Tim, said he gets together occasionally with friends who also build performance diesel transmissions and he explained my intermittent 2nd gear starts. One guy shared a customer had same issue and he (builder) pulled the trans relay in engine compartment and saw green on pins, cleaned fuse panel connections, put new relay in and no more problems. I checked no corrosion, but swapped in one of the spare relays and been driving daily for 3-4 days and no more 2nd starts.

Have to call Tim tell him about relay swap results and bust his chops about not sending me new transducer and solenoid yet.

 

Hope I don't have to do anymore updates here, well problem related anyway. 

 

Thanks to all who've followed along and offered suggestions and help.

 

Off topic, but imagine if our government could help each other (left/right) instead of conflicting, how great our country could return to...

 

Thanks again 

Okay.  Don’t know much about injectors and pop pressures. But my 1999 275 rv and a edge turned all the way up had a DTT installed  several years ago. Bill K built the torque converter and valve body for just south of 300 hp   So it has worked fine all these years until recent.  Néw vb etc but here’s what I did find over the years that might be of some use to you.  In Alaska we get #2 diesel starting about the end of April till maybe the first part of September  the rest of the year #1 or 50/50 or what ever they have in there tanks. So my truck really truly wants solid #2.  Year round but not available here in the winter   Install your own anti gel.   But only two places sell #2 in the winter here Glennallen and Fairbanks Ak for semis with heated tanks. To haul to  freight north to the oil fields.  To far for me to go.  But my DTT torque converter was built pretty tight 85% lock up  so on any thing not #2 it dies going into drive or reverse.  It’s a fuel issue   #2 no problems.  Others could have problems    We have lots of #1 in the state because of the airlines  crossroads we are in. Jets use #1 diesel. So #1 is the main fuel we get here.  How did I make this work for 20 years.  I bought 20  5 gallon jugs of #2 in mid summer and  would add it as required to make my truck not die.  Thought about a outside fuel tank but not practical in my hood   So you might really only have a quality of fuel issue and nothing more I no it sounds stupid.  But ask me questions and I will try to help.  Grandkids just left and I’m have a glass. Love them but they wear me out sorry

 

 

 

Hey Terry, you are a fortunate man to have grandchildren that, 1- wear you out and more importantly 2- help keep you young. My only child, daughter turned 30 earlier this month, told me when she married (3 years back) she "never" wants children? Anyhow, that's her decision and you never know...

Glad you figured a work around on you state's fuel situation change summer/winter. In my area (N/NE PA) we get #2 year round. My stalling problem began immediately upon installation of refreshed Mach5s (200hp add), I had same injectors since about 09 and never ever had issue. After they sent newly built set, to eliminate possibility of injectors as problem, it still stalled. Then after testing with new, not remaned, cheapo God only knows where they were made - perhaps the moon - RV275S no stalling. After I sent the newly built 5s back and they lowered tha BAR pop no more problems. And since all this took place in warmer weather, knowing we have #2 year round, my stalling issues were not fuel related, definitely injector related. I could have just left the RV275S in but wasn't willing to give up 150hp, got spoiled over the years, you know.

Those are some big nozzles. The DDT holds that much power awesome ? Bill K told me you got to tell me true and I will build it so it holds the hp   But if you up the horsepower all bets are off.  My 6.5 year old sweetie pie came racing out in the garage yesterday all excited.  Her first baby tooth had fell out.  I gave her a old 35 mm film canister to put in. So she wouldn’t  lose it.  She ran to all the neighbors houses to tell them the news    Happy your teeth are falling out   How funny.  Yes very lucky 

The DTT was built to hold 500 as long as not launched boosted in 4wd. Unfortunately the DTT had seen it's days after I'm guessing after 18 years and also unfortunately DTT is not longer in business. The new trans, built by the guy who built the DTT will hold a bit more than the 525/1,000 I'm making at the wheels, this time I went with billet input shaft, triple-loc torque converter and billet flywheel. I should be good for the rest of it's/my life now.

You all need to talk to the our site transmission man... @Dynamic

 

He even made a beefed up 46RE for me as well. There is things in Dynamic's products that you cannot get in DTT and other rebuilders. 

Edited August 1, 20213 yr by Mopar1973Man

@Turbo Terry you may want to use some 2 cycle oil in double dose in winter with that #1 idk just thinking out loud

19 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

You all need to talk to the our site transmission man... @Dynamic

 

He even made a beefed up 46RE for me as well. There is things in Dynamic's products that you cannot get in DTT and other rebuilders. 

Hopefully I'll never need to talk with a trans guy again...

Example...

 

Dynamic drilled two oil jets in the body of trans to cool both clutch packs.

Then he cut about 0.1 inch of both clutch baskets and upgrade that 46RE to more like 47RE. Added extra friction and steel plate.

Then pull the valve body and drilled out few ports making 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear shift really firm.

Upgraded bands and levers.

 

I know other builders don't do some of these mods.

Edited August 2, 20213 yr by Mopar1973Man

So you think 2 cycle oil in #1 might up the btu burn rate a bit   It could I suppose but how much and to what ratio. 5 gallons of #2 to 10 gallons of #1 was about the  right mix for me in the winter.  20 x10 =200 gallons of fuel at 20 miles to the gallon. 4 k per winter   Maybe 3 k  with some idling and warm up so  100 gallons #2 with antigel would take  me thru the winter.   I called big dodge 20 years ago they told me they knew they had a problem in alaska where #2 isn’t reaily available all winter. But offered no suggestions as to a fix