Truck in the shop and new problems appearing every day.

[Frogman812]

My 98.5 cummins has been in the shop for 8 days now and each day reveals a new problem.  Took her in after a few hard starts where there seemed to be a loss of prime.  The day before the shop appointment the oil pressure gauge suddenly dropped, then went immediately back to normal.  I was a mile from home so I decided to limp her home, the oil pressure dropped to zero and then jumped back to normal as I pulled away from the intersection stop.  Acceleration seemed to keep the oil pressure in the normal range.  Anyway, I ger her to the shop who seems to start throwing parts at the problems.  They replaced the oil pressure sensor and said the injector connector pencil o-rings were leaking causing loss of prime.  After these repairs the problems continued and now they want to cut my oil filter apart and check for metal which I can understand.  I just got off the phone with them and was told that fuel is entering the crank case and the oil level is way up on the dipstick.  They are planning on pulling the valve cover tomorrow and checking to see if fuel is coming up around any injectors and draining away to the crank case.  This still does not address my oil pressure issue unless the fuel thinned motor oil is causing the erratic readings. 

 

I trust the shop and they are very well though of in town.  I would like to hear your thoughts and for any ideas you all might have.

[CUMMINSDIESELPWR]

try to get a mechanical oil pressure gauge installed to check to see if it isnt the dash gauge going bad. or a bad wire?if you are making oil, you either have injectors pissing (replace injectors) or the orings are very old allowing fuel to pass by like the said (easy fix)

[TFaoro]

VP front seal is a known culprit for dumping fuel into the crank case. I doubt they will find anything in the injectors. Everything is aligned toward diluted oil though.

[Mopar1973Man]

Injector o-rings or front seal on the VP44 are your 2 sources for fuel leaks. There is one other which is a bad injector(s) that are stuck open. Just like a CR engine if stuck open it won't change much other than make it hard starting. The bad injector will blow fuel spray on the cylinder walls instead of the piston bowl .

[rburks]

Mikes right,injector or VP O rings, Although a bad injector dripping will put fuel in oil via top of cyl. and wash down int crankcase and its visible on dipstick, I've never seen it amount to the extreme over fullness your describing..and you should have had a miss and smoke like a coal train in the mornings when first started..

IM leaning toward injector Orings or VP Big Oring

Edited July 4, 2015 by rburks

[Frogman812]

Update:  Just got off the phone with the shop who said three of the injectors are bubbling fuel up around the edges thus adding fuel to the crank case.  They said they have never seen three injectors fail like that at the same time.  They should have the sticks pulled tomorrow and hopefully it's the o-rings and not an issue with the head.  Now that you mention it rburks, I did see a ton of smoke when my son pulled out, but I figured he turned the programmer on.  Only saw it once though.  The injectors and o-rings are only six years old at the most, so I'm a little angry about that.

[rburks]

when you done the injectors did you change the copper washers that set in the bottom of the injector bore???? 

[rburks]

these copper washers if bad can cause cylinder pressure to escape from the cylinder into the injector bore and pressurize the entire fuel return rail in the head until it pushes fuel out around O-Rings. 

over time, and by running fuel & timing Mods/programmers i can see it possible 1 cyl/injector washer could cause 2 maybe even 3 o-rings to fail cause the pressure will move thru the return gallery in the head till it finds the least resistance, 

Edited July 9, 2015 by rburks

[Frogman812]

rburks, The job was done at a local shop, so I have no idea if the copper washers were replaced.  They didn't charge me for washers, so I'm sure the old ones are in there.  They said every o-ring was brittle and they suspected the shop that installed them 6 years ago did not use genuine Cummins brand o-rings.  I really need my own shop area and to learn how to do this work myself.  This event cost $1200.00 and 14 days without my truck. 

 

Thanks for the input everyone, you guys were spot on!

[Hawkez]

All fixed and running great now?

[rburks]

rburks, The job was done at a local shop, so I have no idea if the copper washers were replaced.  They didn't charge me for washers, so I'm sure the old ones are in there.  They said every o-ring was brittle and they suspected the shop that installed them 6 years ago did not use genuine Cummins brand o-rings.  I really need my own shop area and to learn how to do this work myself.  This event cost $1200.00 and 14 days without my truck. 

 

Thanks for the input everyone, you guys were spot on!

 

Thats Insane ...WASHERS & ORINGS=around 50.00, about A HALF A DAYS {4-5Hrs} work at the most..that shop broke it off in you.

[Mopar1973Man]

I can change injectors in a matter of about 1 hour. O-rings can be install during that time.

 

This event cost $1200.00 and 14 days without my truck

 

This is why I no longer rely on any shop but do all my own work.

[rburks]

See people, thats why this site, (mopar1973man) has to remain strong, Frogman812 could have  "Engaged the site and Mods and members by posting a thread, and done the troubleshooting, found the issue, fixed it himself and SPENT 50 BUCKS INSTEAD OF 1200.00 AND HIS TRUCK DOWN FOR ONLY 1-2 DAYS INSTEAD OF 14 DAYS.    even if he didn't do the work himself, after knowing what the issue probably was he could have called shops and compared prices to pull injectors and replace o-rings/washers. which i am sure would have saved him a fortune. 

  

​    We can't afford to take these trucks to the stealerships or even most local diesel shop rates are 100,00/per hr or getting close to it.

Edited July 13, 2015 by rburks

[Mopar1973Man]

Like myself I charge $60 a hour for mechanic time.

[rburks]

I can change injectors in a matter of about 1 hour. O-rings can be install during that time.

 

 

This is why I no longer rely on any shop but do all my own work.

TAKES ME THE bigger part of 2hrs...i was referring to it being 1st time doing it,, I bet you didn't do in 1-hour the first time you done it.

i know i didn't as i went "VERY SLOW" AND stopped to call people (a guy lived in Idaho that goes by moparman} 

 

4-5 hours is probably on the excessive side   

Edited July 13, 2015 by rburks

[rburks]

i just cannot see how the charged him 1200.00 when there were no parts to speak of except for orings and washers 50-60.00 max

[Hawkez]

For some people spending the money is a better option than doing the maintenance yourself.  That may not make sense to you or I, but there a plenty of intelligent people that can't wrap there head around maintenance.  I have worked for many years in aircraft maintenance on fighter jets.  I have met a lot of guys that are extremely book smart, but when it comes to turning a wrench they are lost.  I actually watched a guy use the wrong end of a crescent wrench to remove a small nut.    He couldn't figure out how to use the thing  , but on paper due to his test scores, he was a fully qualified technician. 

 

A task that may seem simple to some may not be the case to other.  Time, tools, space may not be an option to some so I won't criticize someone for spending the money to get their truck up and running.  Certainly he could have done it cheaper and the shop shouldn't have taken so long or cost as much, but that's for frogman to decide. 

[Mopar1973Man]

In the same token the service shops out there see the word diesel and automatically increase prices on labor. Then act like it takes forever to do a job or order parts. My intro to this was when my injection pump failed (P0216 @ 50k miles). A ASE certified Dodge Diesel Tech took 8 hours to change one VP44. Thank gawd it was under warranty. Like myself I'm NOT ASE certified but I can change a VP44 in a open field in a rain storm in just under 2 hours. Go figure.

[JAG1]

TAKES ME THE bigger part of 2hrs...i was referring to it being 1st time doing it,, I bet you didn't do in 1-hour the first time you done it.

i know i didn't as i went "VERY SLOW" AND stopped to call people (a guy lived in Idaho that goes by moparman} 

 

4-5 hours is probably on the excessive side

 

Yep on the spot mechanical school   and never forgets not one important detail    . Don't know how he does it  . First in command is Mopar Mom.

[Ed ke6bnl]

we did it in about 2 and half ours made a small tool to pop them out then spent another less than an hour to adj. the valves while we in there. I have a dirt mover that want to trade some earth moving for me to put in some bigger injectors may do it for him. was easier then some jobs. still afraid to pull my leaky ps pump and vac. pump just have to do a lot of reading and videos and go at it.