New BHAF options!

[AH64ID]

I thought, thou it has been a while, that Pepsi dropped back to the 190° due to excessive fan operation.

Without a different fan clutch it would be useless in summer for any gains unless you are always empty.

I have been wanting to try a 200° thermostat for quite a while but ther isn't much point unless I can reprogram my fan.

IIRC the 2nd gen fan clutch is a traditional clutch right? With a hotter engine and the stagnant airflow of a winter front you may be surprised. Having watched IAT (pre and post turbo) with winter fronts for a few years they retain quite a bit of heat.

EDIT: I just did a little reading on the 2nd gen clutch. It is a viscous clutch with a mechanical thermostat, which means it is not an on/off clutch. It starts to engage when exposed to temps above 160°.

[Mopar1973Man]

Correct. Mine for some reason is free wheeling at 190*F. You can stop it with a rubber hose at full temp. It fully locks by 215*F and fully unlocks by about 195*F.

[AH64ID]

Correct. Mine for some reason is free wheeling at 190*F. You can stop it with a rubber hose at full temp. It fully locks by 215*F and fully unlocks by about 195*F.

That sounds about right. The 160° is air temp over the clutch since radiator discharge air is cooler than engine temp.

[dripley]

Correct. Mine for some reason is free wheeling at 190*F. You can stop it with a rubber hose at full temp. It fully locks by 215*F and fully unlocks by about 195*F.

I would not think of trying to stop mine like you do. i remember the video you posted a while back and yours really does free wheel a lot. Mine does not but you can really tell when mine engages. Sounds like a turbo prop buzzing you.

[Vais01]

I would not think of trying to stop mine like you do. i remember the video you posted a while back and yours really does free wheel a lot. Mine does not but you can really tell when mine engages. Sounds like a turbo prop buzzing you.

Mine engages and howls like a Kenworth at a stoplight trying to accelerate.  

[AH64ID]

Just for grins here is what I saw today for temps on an empty cruise at 65 mph.

Temp 65°

Wind <5mph

Pre-turbo IAT 65°

Intake Manifold IAT 71-72°

Boost 1-2 psi

EGT's 525° pre, 450° post

Engine load 18-19%

Rail Pressure 13.4K

A 6-7° increase is about as low as it gets and an average empty cruise (which isn't common for me) will normally be about +10-12°.

[Vais01]

Just for grins here is what I saw today for temps on an empty cruise at 65 mph.

Temp 65°

Wind <5mph

Pre-turbo IAT 65°

Intake Manifold IAT 71-72°

Boost 1-2 psi

EGT's 525° pre, 450° post

Engine load 18-19%

Rail Pressure 13.4K

A 6-7° increase is about as low as it gets and an average empty cruise (which isn't common for me) will normally be about +10-12°.

Good info. 

Question is where is your intake manifold IAT sensor at as I am currently drawing a blank?

[AH64ID]

Vicinity of #3 smack dab in the middle of the intake plate.

Good info.

Question is where is your intake manifold IAT sensor at as I am currently drawing a blank?

Vicinity of #3 smack dab in the middle of the intake plate.

[Vais01]

Vicinity of #3 smack dab in the middle of the intake plate.

That is a great place. 

 

Now I did see 140 degrees today on my intake probe (not the one on the head). Going to probably pull the BHAF and go to the factory box again. The BHAF is good but I want to see if my transient response changes any. Only way to confirm it is go back and test it.

[Mopar1973Man]

Even at 80 Mph I was only 105*f at about 10-15 psi of boost. Even towing the Rv barely made 110*f.

[Mopar1973Man]

Checked again on the way home. Towing the RV held a fair +40 to +45 offset to outside temp fairly constant. Even towing up grade as long as I wasn't racing to the top. If I geared down and kept the boost down a bit 20-25 PSI it held fairly constant at the 40-45*F offset. Now if I did go for broke and held the pyrometer at 1,200*F bouncing off the warning light then as coolant temp rose so did the IAT temps. About equal to to the amount of coolant temp rise. So if the coolant rose to 210-215 then the IAT rose equally. Now like I said if I geared down kept the speed down and pyro then no rise was seen.

 

Now the amazing part... The max IAT driving I seen while pulling grades and flat ground. 140*F... Max IAT while coasting no exhaust brake 160-170*F. Max IAT while exhaust braking downgrades 190-200*F. OAT ranged about 75-90*F depending on where I was at and measuring throughout the day.

 

As for my previous post I ran the interstate for a short burst at 80 MPH just to see the stats and numbers. For my setup it not efficient at all. Turning 2,400 RPM's, 850-900*F EGT's, 10-15 PSI boost... But running fast and empty has no impact on IAT temps. Still held the constant +40-45*F offset.

[Vais01]

Checked again on the way home. Towing the RV held a fair +40 to +45 offset to outside temp fairly constant. Even towing up grade as long as I wasn't racing to the top. If I geared down and kept the boost down a bit 20-25 PSI it held fairly constant at the 40-45*F offset. Now if I did go for broke and held the pyrometer at 1,200*F bouncing off the warning light then as coolant temp rose so did the IAT temps. About equal to to the amount of coolant temp rise. So if the coolant rose to 210-215 then the IAT rose equally. Now like I said if I geared down kept the speed down and pyro then no rise was seen.

 

Now the amazing part... The max IAT driving I seen while pulling grades and flat ground. 140*F... Max IAT while coasting no exhaust brake 160-170*F. Max IAT while exhaust braking downgrades 190-200*F. OAT ranged about 75-90*F depending on where I was at and measuring throughout the day.

 

As for my previous post I ran the interstate for a short burst at 80 MPH just to see the stats and numbers. For my setup it not efficient at all. Turning 2,400 RPM's, 850-900*F EGT's, 10-15 PSI boost... But running fast and empty has no impact on IAT temps. Still held the constant +40-45*F offset.

My IAT(factory sensor) is right around 130 degrees when not much if any boost is used if the ambient temps are in the 90's. If I am on the interstate for longer than 10 minutes at 75 MPH with 90 degree ambient temps the IAT values will drop down to 110 degrees running 2-3 PSI of boost.

My weekend trip confirmed that the BHAF is doing some good with response but the but it seems the temperatures are very similar to the factory air box when on the interstate. Factory air box will be reinstalled tomorrow to confirm some in city tests. 

 

 

As AH64ID said the location of the probe is the reason for the raised temps we see. Also I do believe the location of our air box(filter) is better suited for cold climates but hurts us during hot summer days. 

Edited September 22, 2015 by Vais01

[Mopar1973Man]

My IAT(factory sensor) is right around 130 degrees when not much if any boost is used if the ambient temps are in the 90's. If I am on the interstate for longer than 10 minutes at 75 MPH with 90 degree ambient temps the IAT values will drop down to 110 degrees running 2-3 PSI of boost.

My weekend trip confirmed that the BHAF is doing some good with response but the but it seems the temperatures are very similar to the factory air box when on the interstate. Factory air box will be reinstalled tomorrow to confirm some in city tests. 

 

 

As AH64ID said the location of the probe is the reason for the raised temps we see. Also I do believe the location of our air box(filter) is better suited for cold climates but hurts us during hot summer days. 

 

Other way around. Hurts us in the winter but helps in the summer. You'll find optimal IAT is about 100-140*F. Colder the air the worse the MPG's become. I've seen it many many times of being on summer fuel have a storm roll through bring cold temps for a few days (40-50*F) and watch MPG drop about 2-3 MPG. If your traveling long distance like I do I see changes in temps from low valleys like Boise, ID (2,700 ft) where its warm to getting to McCall, ID (5,000 ft) where it could be 20*F colder and see a change instantly in MPG. Fuel is the same and fluid didn't chill down either.

[Vais01]

Other way around. Hurts us in the winter but helps in the summer. You'll find optimal IAT is about 100-140*F. Colder the air the worse the MPG's become. I've seen it many many times of being on summer fuel have a storm roll through bring cold temps for a few days (40-50*F) and watch MPG drop about 2-3 MPG. If your traveling long distance like I do I see changes in temps from low valleys like Boise, ID (2,700 ft) where its warm to getting to McCall, ID (5,000 ft) where it could be 20*F colder and see a change instantly in MPG. Fuel is the same and fluid didn't chill down either.

My truck is a bit odd then. I do not see much of a change in fuel economy cold or hot. Unless it is below 40 degrees ambient temperature. I'm almost certain that it is because of my VP44(HO pump has a different timing according to Bosch certified rebuilders). The truck has a minor fuel knock until you are over 2000 RPM, then it sounds almost like an early common rail (03-04).

[Mopar1973Man]

Yeah different... Stock SO pump here. Very very quiet with the MPG fooler on just like a 3rd Gen. But flip the switch back you can hear the old 24V rattle again. The rattle get worse as temperature fall colder. By the time 0*F is reached it almost sound like a mechanic attempting to beat his way out with a sledge hammer till the IAT comes up.

[Cowboy]

I'm surprised your IAT's are so high. At 72 MPH, I run around 180* before the IC, and about 85* After (sensor in the intake horn).  Ambient temp was about 80*.  Boost is 8-10 and I forget EGT's.

[Mopar1973Man]

Intake horn of course is colder for all trucks. But the 24V has a coolant passage in intake manifold. Why don't ask... but it's there. Since the ECM uses the data from the IAT the intake horn is meaningless. So you have to watch the IAT sensor temps and what its report to understand what is going on.

 

1/2" Pipe plug in between the sensors is coolant passage.

 

[Vais01]

Intake horn of course is colder for all trucks. But the 24V has a coolant passage in intake manifold. Why don't ask... but it's there. Since the ECM uses the data from the IAT the intake horn is meaningless. So you have to watch the IAT sensor temps and what its report to understand what is going on.

 

1/2" Pipe plug in between the sensors is coolant passage.

 

This is correct. Although in my truck I use the intake horn data to see the actual performance of the CAC and how the turbo is performing. Whats interesting to note my turbo will cool off the intake air if I can keep boost above 7 PSI. This is the reason I am considering choking down my turbine housing to a .70 A/R (12cm) divided and wastegated version. This should increase my boost while cruising and throttle response.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Vais01

[AH64ID]

The coolant passage would make stealing coolant to use as a fuel heater super easy thou.

I will probably put a FASS on my truck next year and want to hook up both electric and coolant fuel heaters but not sure where the coolant will come from yet.

[Vais01]

The coolant passage would make stealing coolant to use as a fuel heater super easy thou.

I will probably put a FASS on my truck next year and want to hook up both electric and coolant fuel heaters but not sure where the coolant will come from yet.

You may be able to steal it off of the heater core return hose if you are willing to Tee into it. I'm sure FASS has information on where to rob the coolant from.