Bio Diesel?

[joecool911]

Safeway has 20% bio diesel for 50 cents a gallon cheaper than my normal station ($1.50). Is it worth running that stuff and in my truck?

[Me78569]

i'd run it.  Bio is closer to the old non usdl specs

[NightHawk]

My 

Purchase a gallon's worth in a jug & see what it looks like after a few days of sitting.  The chances of getting a bad batch of bio are high enough to get a sample first rather then an entire tank.

[Mopar1973Man]

8 hours ago, joecool911 said:

Safeway has 20% bio diesel for 50 cents a gallon cheaper than my normal station ($1.50). Is it worth running that stuff and in my truck?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_gallon_equivalent

Biodiesel might be better lubricity wise but the BTU content will always be lower. So MPG's wil typically be lower than normal #2 Diesel.

[dripley]

I have run B15 and maybe a tank or 2 of B20 with no ill effect. Never run a tank out with one style of driving to know what the difference in mileage is on the higher percentage. But I have gotten some good numbers on the B5. I saw no mileage loss on the B5. Since the B5 does not have to be labeled, I dont know how often I get it. I have had no trouble with filters clogging. I would give it a try if like me you go thru alot fuel. Right now I run about 6 days or less on a tank.

[Me78569]

At .50 c per gallon cheaper who cares about mpg numbers.  The btu would have to be 2/3 of diesel for that to even out here.

[dripley]

The thing that gets about the price is everything I read about bio diesel and ethanol talks about the higher cost of production. Yet I see at a couple stations around home that do carry straight UL gas at about 30 cents a gallon more than fuel with 10% ethanol. I guess that is our government subsidies at work. I have noticed a small drop in mileage for the wife's car with the ethanol. I never noticed any drop in my trucks mileage even up to the B15. It is hard for me to tell some times with mixed driving and idleing  the engine when it is cold out.

[IBMobile]

After doing a little research in Diesel V Biodiesel I found that test results showed B5 fuel had a slight increase in fuel mileage and B20 was comparable to #2 diesel.  Biodiesel also has an increase in it's lubricity rate.  If you can get it for less use it.

http://www.crimsonrenewable.com/mythvfacts.php

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/05/diesel-vs-biodiesel-vs-vegetable-oil/index.htm

[Mopar1973Man]

Still have a problem with that...

How to you create energy from nothing? It's already been documented that biodiesel is lower in btu content but producing more MPG's?

Normal #2 Diesel Fuel at 129,500 BTU's per gallon or 113.64% more than gasoline.

B20 Diesel fuel at 127,250 BTU's per gallon or 111.11% more than gasoline (2.53% loss of power)

B100 (the worse) at 118,300 BTU's per gallon or 104.17% more than gasoline (9.47% loss of power)

Here is showing my local fuels I did this some time ago.. Dark green is summer and light green is winter. ATSM grid.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[dripley]

I don't know about all the technical data. It does work good in my truck. I have better mileage while cruising the highway both empty and towing. About 5-6% empty and about 9-10% on the one towing run I have done. No controlled scientific data. Just my experience.

[IBMobile]

1.  From U. S. Department of Energy:  Alternative Fuels Data Center:  http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/biodiesel_blends.html

"Pure biodiesel (B100) contains about 8% less energy per gallon than petroleum diesel. For B20, this translates to a 1% to 2% difference, but most B20 users report no noticeable difference in performance or fuel economy."

2.  From U.S. Department of Energy:  National Renewable Energy Laboratory:  100,000-Mile Evaluation of Buses Operated on Biodiesel Blend (20):  http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy07osti/40128.pdf

"The fuel economy for both petroleum diesel and B20 groups was 4.41 mpg based on in-use fleet data. An approximately 2% reduction in fuel economy for B20 was measured in laboratory emission testing."

3.  From Pacific Biodiesel:  http://www.biodiesel.com/biodiesel/benefits/

"I want my MPG!
Many alternative fuels have difficulty gaining acceptance because they do not provide similar performance to their petroleum counterparts. Pure biodiesel and biodiesel blended with petroleum diesel fuel provide very similar horsepower, torque, and fuel mileage compared to petroleum diesel fuel. In its pure form, typical biodiesel will have an energy content 5%-10% lower than typical petroleum diesel. However it should be noted that petroleum diesel fuel energy content can vary as much as 15% from one supplier to the next. The lower energy content of biodiesel translates into slightly reduced performance when biodiesel is used in 100% form, although users typically report little noticeable change in mileage or performance. When blended with petroleum diesel at B20 levels, there is less than 2% change in fuel energy content, with users typically reporting no noticeable change in mileage or economy.

Superior Lubrication for Your Engine
The injection system of many diesel engines relies on the fuel to lubricate its parts. The degree to which fuel provides proper lubrication is its lubricity. Low lubricity petroleum diesel fuel can cause premature failure of injection system components and decreased performance. Biodiesel provides excellent lubricity to the fuel injection system. Recently, with the introduction of low sulfur and ultra low sulfur diesel fuel, many of the compounds which previously provided lubricating properties to petrodiesel fuel have been removed. By blending biodiesel in amounts as little as 5%, the lubricity of ultra low sulfur diesel can be dramatically improved, and the life of an engine’s fuel injection system extended"

4.  From GAS2:  http://gas2.org/2008/04/10/biodiesel-mythbuster-20-twenty-two-biodiesel-myths-dispelled/#myth7

"FACT: Biodiesel contains about 8.5% less energy per gallon than petroleum diesel. For someone using B20, this means about a 1-2% loss in power, torque, and fuel efficiency. To put things into perspective, that’s about a 2 mph difference on the freeway if you were trying to go 55 mph. Millions of miles of onroad tests (aka trucking) have shown that B20 and diesel are practically indistinguishable. Biodiesel has also been used extensively in heavy-machinery, like tractors, loaders, and agricultural equipment, with no noticeable difference.

B100 users may notice a slight drop in fuel mileage based on the small difference in energy content, but torque and power are usually comparable. I’ve seen a 1-3 mpg drop in fuel efficiency running B100. As an FYI, biodiesel has the highest BTU (energy) content of any alternative fuel (falling somewhere between diesel #1 and #2). Energy content of various fuels (per gallon, low value of range):"

• Regular Diesel Fuel = 128,500 BTUs
• Gasoline = 125,071 BTUs
• Biodiesel = 118,296 BTUs
• Ethanol = 76,000 BTUs

• In conclusion:  in real world testing there is no noticeable change in power or fuel usage with fuel blends of B5 (5% bio-95% petroleum)  to B20 (20% bio-80% petroleum).  B100 (100% biodiesel did show a decrease in performance and fuel economy due to it's lower BTU value.  The added benefit of increased fuel lubricity over the ULS fuel is a plus for the consumer in the form of possible lower maintenance/repair costs 

[dripley]

Similar to what i have experienced. 

I did leave one thing out of my using the bio. I installed the Edge comp on mine the same time I started running the bio. Not sure how much this would have affected the mileage. I think if had a lot to do with the towing mileage.

I will keep using it. I just wish they label the B5 so you would know when you were getting it. I believe it is inevitable that all of us will be seeing it more often. It is pretty wide spread out my.

I also wonder if the production of bio has the same effect on food costs as corn ethanol?

[Mopar1973Man]

I have a hard reading anything that comes From U. S. Department of Energy:  Alternative Fuels Data Center. Of course they want to sell Biodiesel. Now get a independent lab more likely get a different story. Same people that bought you EGR and DPF's. Our wonderful gov't and infinite wisdom.

9 hours ago, IBMobile said:

As an FYI, biodiesel has the highest BTU (energy) content of any alternative fuel (falling somewhere between diesel #1 and #2)

Basically like running winterized fuel all year round. Still in all petroleum diesel still has the highest energy content. Just like unmolested gasoline has more BTU's than ethanol mix gas. 

Edited March 11, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[joecool911]

Bottom line... But worst case...slight reduction in btu, but the cost per btu is quite a bit less with the b20. I was more worried about the potential cost of added maintenance using it. I hear stories of the local bus system having to replace injectors and filters because of bio diesel. They might be using b100? 

Since installing a fuel pump that keeps fuel pressure in proper range (higher) and diesel recirculates. After a couple of filter changes I don't get much gunk in my fuel filter anymore. I think the recirculating fuel has cleaned out the tank and I'm now only cleaning out new contaminants. So I was concerned about cleanliness of the B20. Even fuel filters aren't cheap. My regular station must have pretty clean tanks.

[Mopar1973Man]

That's a myth. Biodiesel does not clean out a fuel system also petroleum diesel doesn't gunk up a fuel system either. I've opened a lot of fuel tank here locally and never seen a dirty diesel fuel tank from petroleum diesel. It's all about the dispensing pump at the fuel station do they have filters or not? What type of filters water blocking or standard media? This will affect that out come. Like myself majority petroleum diesel and changing filters at 50k miles because its a waste at 30k miles the filter still looks new as seen below.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[Killer223]

why did fuel prices just jump $0.12 today?

[joecool911]

Probably because crude is on the rise.

[dripley]

It is on the rise. Closed today at over $38 a barrel,

My understanding is the bio is more solvent like and will loosen up any crud that might be in the fuel. Last time I had my tank out there was no crud in there. Some small debris that looked a lot like bug parts more than dirt. Not sure what else can hide in the fuel system. My last fuel filters were change at about 50k miles. I have just not seen any thing detrimental about running the bio diesel. The truck runs quieter than it ever has, fuel mileage is good, and in some cases better. The comp might deserve some of the credit though. You do need to be sure your fuel lines are compatible with the bio in the percentages you are buying. Mine are supposedly good for up to 20% per the manufacturer, but nothing over that amount.

Again the thing that is going to bug me is if the bio is as bad on food cost as the corn ethanol has been. I know we have to fuel our engines, but at the cost of folks eating afford ably, something is just not right about that.

[joecool911]

Got a tank of 20% bio this week. Looks like I'm running 2 MPG less than my normal stuff. So the cost per mile is exactly the same with the current 30 cent difference in cost. So there's got to be 30+ cents to make any difference in end cost and I have less range. My Scangauge makes the comparison easy well before I fill the tank up. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Sound about right. As the biodiesel percent goes up the BTU's go down.