UDC tuning for vp trucks!!??

[Mopar1973Man]

1 minute ago, Jbolduc said:

According to the letter on the mads website they are releasing UDC tuning for all years cummins except the 12 valve of course but I guess we continue to wait and see

LOL. Not much to program on a 12V...

http://dieselautopower.com/blog/p7100-incab-tuner/

[Jbolduc]

3 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

LOL. Not much to program on a 12V...

http://dieselautopower.com/blog/p7100-incab-tuner/

This works too lol 

[NightHawk]

I hope i am wrong, but the odds of custom tuning via UDC pro on a vp truck "revolutionizing" how they drive seems like fairy tale land to me.  Don't get me wrong, its awesome for the platform to get some attention in the "custom" tuning realm of the industry, but the dino tech with computer intervention (vp pump) doesn't leave a lot on the table to mess with in regards to tuning.

Waiting for dyno graphs before spending $$

 

Edited March 22, 2016 by NightHawk

[Mopar1973Man]

2 hours ago, NightHawk said:

Waiting for dyno graphs before spending $$

 

I'm pretty sure it's going to be the same old 60-65 HP output... I'm hoping I'm wrong too but general rule of thumb any non-wire tapped programmer is limited to 60-65 HP on 24V trucks.

[Silverdodge]

17 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

17 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

(Speaking strictly 24V programmers and tuners here)

$865.00 for Smarty Touch... Still only a 65 HP tuner. Just add a fancy touch screen and gauges.

$649.00 for Smarty Programmer... vStill only a 65 HP tuner.

$559.20 for Edge Comp 120 HP tuner...

$597.81 for Quadzilla Adrenaline (iQuad) 180 HP tuner...

Hmmm... So what would be so great about tuning is it still limted to 65 HP and going to most likely be high in prices vs. modules that produce way more power. Stacking... Just stacking cost too.

Isn't the point of the quad to custom tune so wouldn't this be already done or does this mean Trans tunes also? 

Edited March 22, 2016 by Silverdodge
Repeat

[Me78569]

We can't tune our trans via canbus.  

 

The point isn't how much power the tuner would give as I am sure it is only 65 hp still, unless they sold their souls to bosch for the info needed to recalibrate the pump, the point is tuning how the ecm behaves.  

 

In theory you could have a cleaner driving, smoother driving, non warranty killing truck with large power using injectors to supply the fuel rather than wiretap.  If they did a full UDC you could control and extend timing tables, fueling tables, boost tables, and rpm tables to 40 psi or 50 psi or 4000 rpm or 4800 rpm.  you could write tunes that got rid of smoke on heavy take off, you could write tunes that worked for MPG on the fly that limited boost to sub 5 psi.

 

Think of the ecm / tuner as a drive style adjuster and injectors as the power makers.   

 

EFI's strong hold is not due to how much power it will give you but rather how much control of tuning it gives you.   The amount of power will vary from year to year, but we can always add injectors to make up for it. 

 

 

I love my quadzilla,but the custom tuning really just changes a select few things in the base tune.  

[Mopar1973Man]

1 hour ago, Me78569 said:

 If they did a full UDC you could control and extend timing tables, fueling tables, boost tables, and rpm tables to 40 psi or 50 psi or 4000 rpm or 4800 rpm.  you could write tunes that got rid of smoke on heavy take off, you could write tunes that worked for MPG on the fly that limited boost to sub 5 psi.

 

Some how I really doubt that will happen. Even the UDC for CR engines don't go that far RPM wise. Boost wise CR engine are allowed up to 40 PSI. I really doubt there will be that much for the 24V's. Accuracy of our MAP sensor is spotty at best about 30 PSI.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[Me78569]

The UDC pro is much more advanced than the standard UDC from what I have seen.  there are significantly more tables that are open to adjustment.  

 

When they release the udc pro for the 5.9 CR guys we will know if they added more tables to that release also.  

 

Time will tell, and not going to hold my breath.

[Mopar1973Man]

So there is a difference between the two as of current UDC and the pro series... Hmmm...

[CSM]

Mike, you touch on a very valid point.  The electronics and ecm of the vp trucks may not be able to do what we expect from the cr  udc

[Me78569]

There is no reason it can't Jdonoghue on CF ( who ed was working with) was flashing all the tables I am talking about on the fly when he moved on to other stuff.

 

He was able to edit timing tables, Low boost fueling tables, duration tables, requested torque tables, boost tables, boost limit tables, etc etc etc.

 

Our ecms may be old, but they are still updateable on the fly if you know the right commands and protocols.

[Mopar1973Man]

1 minute ago, CSM said:

Mike, you touch on a very valid point.  The electronics and ecm of the vp trucks may not be able to do what we expect from the cr  udc

I know there is limitation of hardware not exactly sure what is the limiting factor being I've heard the Vp44 PSG or ECM hardware. Etc. If there wasn't any limitation why was Smarty only building 65 HP tuners all these years? After dealing with EFI Live tuners software modification is a mere few hours and flash your tune your ready to go. So the whole 65 HP limit is what I waiting to see if they can break through. Modification of fuel and timing table would be cool to be able to do for once. Just not really pleased with having to stack to get to use the Smarty. (Down side)

[Me78569]

Get out of the mindset of pulling your power from a tuner.  Pull your power from injectors and adjust how the injectors act using the smarty via custom tuning. 

 

Forgot about tuner hp numbers.  the tuner is strictly to control how the ECM handles the larger injectors.

 

The 65 limit is in the psg on the vp44.  Bosch coded that limit. 

 

Want 4500 rpm, here is a table for it.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Me78569

[Mopar1973Man]

13 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

Pull your power from injectors and adjust how the injectors act using the smarty via custom tuning. 

 

Ahh... That where you got to be careful larger injector do pose their own problems too. Larger droplets, efficiency problems, etc. Same like CR people using rail pressure on smaller injectors again the high rail pressure makes for cleaner efficient burn vs. larger injectors. Kind of like if BBI injectors were produced for 24V another great product. But only CR engine only.  After following BBI on how they build injectors worlds of difference from the dirty SAC injectors for our 24Vs.

http://smartyresource.com/BBi2003-2004.aspx

There was several articles on what it took to produce these injectors also how clean the spray pattern is.

Then yes a good programmer would be able to help clean up larger injectors... Again waiting to see what will happen.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[Me78569]

agree'd 

 

maybe rather than 7 hole you go with 8 hole or something to keep hole size down.

[CSM]

Nick, you need to drive my truck with the 125s.  I think injectors only do so much.  

At least, how I understand it, injectors give you the potential to flow more fuel.  The fueling is still governed by the vps internals.  Am I wrong there?

[TFaoro]

2 hours ago, Me78569 said:

agree'd 

 

maybe rather than 7 hole you go with 8 hole or something to keep hole size down.

Less holes will make more power though. 

4 minutes ago, CSM said:

Nick, you need to drive my truck with the 125s.  I think injectors only do so much.  

At least, how I understand it, injectors give you the potential to flow more fuel.  The fueling is still governed by the vps internals.  Am I wrong there?

You're correct. My injectors can only do so much with the smarty

[Me78569]

you can only get so much duration from the pump yes, but bigger holes with the same duration will make more power.   

 

What I am saying is you could run bigger injectors and tune the maps to make it more DD friendly than any other box.  

 

This would not be for the guys that want big power, but for me say I would run a  smarty and 200 hp injectors ( vs my current 100 hp injectors and a wiretap)  and be perfectly happy.  Of course it is completely dependent on how much of the ECM you are able to edit.  You would have to have access to most of the fueling and timing tables to make it work.  

 

It might not make the same power as a wiretap, but I would take a hit in HP to be able to move the boost / fueling tables up some to reduce smoke.  

Edited March 22, 2016 by Me78569

[Mopar1973Man]

The whole idea with the wire tap is raising the line pressure to each injector. Which Smarty (or any programmer) can only do so much and has to play by particular rules by the ECM and VP44. The wire tap is where this extra control is found. I'll admit hands down Smarty is the best programmer for low end power and torque management control.

2 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

What I am saying is you could run bigger injectors and tune the maps to make it more DD friendly than any other box.

I would have to agree if this new version is what they claim it is then yes, it would allow more control but at the cost of still stack with another module (most likely TST fuel only box) so you could most bang for your buck.

I would have to say at this time Quadzilla Adrenaline and Edge Products (Comp or Juice) have the best fuel to boost management over Smarty at this current time.

Still with bigger injectors you would still need a wire tap box of some sort to build good line pressure. "Assuming" the same limitaion is still occurring with the Smarty Pro series with 60-65 HP. It would give better fuel to boost control but still limited.

[Me78569]

Mike are you sure that wiretap raises line pressure on vp44 trucks?   

 

I was always under the thinking that it held the fueling solenoid open longer, thus increasing duration not pressure.  The injector's pop pressure is what dictates the pressure in the injection system.  As soon as pop pressure is reached the pressure will hold there until all of the fuel in that stroke has been moved.  If your duration is longer you will inject more fuel.  

 

i'll be the first to admit that power would likely be reduced, but driveablity is what I would be looking at.   A good example of what you could control, again if the maps are opened up, is 1/2 power mode.

 

Edited March 22, 2016 by Me78569