Grossing 16-17k in the Northeast, should I expect more from truck?

[JPhauler87]

Same NH trip this weekend, turned Edge down to level 3. Level 2 is 'tow', 3 is 'drive', but it feels like there is no noticeable improvement until 3. Used my foot to keep EGTs 1200 max with momentary bouts above until I backed off. Edge would say load was 60-70% load at 1200, and it definitely felt like I was leaving power on the table there but it did OK there so whatever. 10.5mpg, same as last trip. Only a couple trips left this year, but I won't go into next season without a Smarty. Will call Turbo Re-source as well about options to help open up the exhaust side of things, maybe do that over winter as well.

 

Edge EGT probe in 5/6 collector, Glowshift pillar gauge (maybe my problem) probe in manifold between 3 and 4. Pillar gauge reads 100-150* hotter under load and strangely 100* cooler when using a lower gear to help decel on longer hills with zero load. Any guesses as to what's going on there? Always though back cylinders ran the hottest.

[notlimah]

From what I understand the reason 5 & 6 read hotter is due to the intake plenum design. It tends to be restrictive to those rear cylinders which would explain why you're seeing cooler temps up in the front cylinders.

[Mopar1973Man]

The weird quark with Edge Products is the timing typically is much greater on the higher levels. So yeah I know every suggesting against running high levels. Typically there is very little gains on lower levels like your finding out. The other factor is what sublevel your also using per main level. This will impact the fueling and timing maps too. After seeing a stock timing map from @AH64ID I would say you could use all the timing you could get. Running higher level but controlling everything by throttle can be safe as long as you watching the EGT's closely and giving some margin for error of the pyrometer. The problem is the lower tunes are less and less timing as you go down in main levels.

 

Know the improvements with Smarty I would look that direction personally for a better tune. Even EFILive is a good solution as well vs. Edge Products.

[AH64ID]

I still wouldn't tow with an Edge product above 3 on a HPCR as there is a lot more going on up there than just timing. They run too hot up there for added timing. 

 

 

The 4-6 should be hotter than 1-3. Got a pic of where your two probes are exactly?

[JPhauler87]

Attached pic. Gauge reads 100-150* hotter between 3 and 4 than Edge does down in the collector. Wouldn't expect gasses to cool that much before hitting collector, especially since back runs hotter. Wondering if it's the cheap gauge.

 

Edited September 15, 2016 by JPhauler87

[AH64ID]

How do both gauges compare in the morning before starting?

[JPhauler87]

I can't get the Edge to read while engine is off, so no dice there. I will try switching them sometime.

 

The shake I mentioned in my first post is starting to get to me a bit. 1500-1900rpm most noticeable through shaking shifter while driving or by truck slightly shaking parked in neutral. 5,000 miles on remans from friend that works at a Bosch shop that does a lot of business around here. I don't hear an audible miss, temp gun on manifold runners was inconclusive. If it's a balance issue, I'll throw a Fluidampr at it and live with it. If it's an injector issue, I obviously  want to get that sorted. I would like to do a kill test and rev to shake RPM, may have a friend of a friend with a scanner that can do it, or even was considering disconnecting injector wires one at a time. This shake has been there since the motor went in, hasn't gotten any better or worse. No different running two stroke or a strong dose of stanadyne. Some injector rattle, but nothing extreme. I occaisionally get a P2149 for injector bank two voltage, I suspect my aging batteries may cause that and slow crank speed. All injectors check out at .8 ohms.

 

Vids of shake in neutral and cold start below. About 60* in cold start, not sure if friend ran grid heater or not but it was cold enough to make it cycle for me right after. Was in the 40s last night.

 

Should I be concerned?

 

IMG_4627.MOV

 

I'll have to upload cold start vid when I get home and can upload to YouTube or something, I'm exceeding attachment size. 2-3 second crank, 2 seconds of gray smoke that clears up completely. Once warmed a bit, starts right up with no smoke.

Edited October 8, 2016 by JPhauler87

[Killer223]

my thoughts and input might be off as i dont' have the G56.

i've had the smarty S06 and and edge.

i only towed with the smarty once and was less then impressed with it's power. but it was clean and cooler running.

the tune settings ah64id had me run was a nice boost in performance for sure.

i now have the edge JWA. and i have to say i like it. yes it runs hot. i'll NEVER tow on anything above tow setting. even on "stock" setting mine will hit 1323 then slowly drop to 1180 towing LONG like 17 miles long 6% grades.

if i was to tow all the time i would go with a smarty. hands down. but sense this truck is now a play toy. i'ma keep the edge as it makes the truck pull SOOOO much harder and i like to embarrass little rice rockets.

 

AS for EFI Live i'd get in touch with Anarchy. i have their tune on my 08 6.7 G56 and what a wold of difference the truck is.

[dorkweed]

Still have that Smarty...................

[JPhauler87]

Smarty Jr. on the way from Amazon

 

Made PA trip w GF's Jeep a couple weeks ago with Edge removed. Her Jeep is about 1000lb lighter than mine, and it's noticeable. 65 was doable on all but the couple worst hills which would have me down to 62-63, so still not bad. I did not miss the power from the Edge, was nice to mat it when needed with no worries. EGTs at 2100rpm maxed around 1250, scraped at 1400 running up to 2500rpm merging onto the highway. 10.4mpg.

 

Thinking I am going to run the Smarty on SW1 and see how I like it. I've seen AH's dyno sheets on Jr. SW1 and I have a feeling it will do me well. All around improvements in economy and power. Might try SW2, but really like the idea of gains coming purely from timing and not added fuel with SW1.

[AH64ID]

Had that perfectly good used one ready to ship at 64% the price....

 

 

[JPhauler87]

67% but it's only money, right?

[AH64ID]

Yeah  didn't realize you didn't pay the MSP. 

[JPhauler87]

Been running the Jr on SW1 with default timing. Power increase between 1500-2500rpm is huge! Has made the truck much more enjoyable to drive. However, only seeing .5-1mpg increase, at most. I found some threads on the Smarty Resource forum where Brian claimed SW3 was actually the most efficient setting for the J06. I was under the impression Default timing was the same across SW1-3 and additional power was gained from duration. Maybe not? Thinking I will give SW3 a try and see how it does on fuel for a while. I think I could be satisfied with the SW1 power level and am not really after much more, so thinking I will set the POD to 80-90 to keep the drivetrain happy.

[AH64ID]

Is that while towing? 0.5-1 is pretty good then. 

 

PoD won't do what you are thinking. At PoD 85 all the power is there up thru about 2800 rpms. At PoD 75 all the power is there up they about 2200, IIRC. It only effects the throttle position tables so fuel is untouched. Think of it as limiting your throttle to 75% on PoD75, except the way the ECM fuels that can still be 100% fuel at low/mid rpms. 

 

SW3 will be better empty, but SW1 is still what I would use towing. 

[JPhauler87]

The .5-1mpg is empty, I haven't made any long towing trips in a while

and probably won't until spring. Thanks for the clarification on the POD.

[JPhauler87]

First trip of the year this weekend. Called Smarty Resource last week and they reassured SW3 was a good choice for towing as long as my clutch was up to the task and I kept EGTs under 1200 sustained.

 

This year, I stepped up to a 30' 14k GVW enclosed, 90" inside height. 6000lb empty, ~6000lb cargo. Scaled at 20360lb on the way home today. Also got the 245 19.5s install over the winter, cruising RPM is around 1950 at 65, 2150 at 70, 2200 at 55 if I drop to fifth. Works out really well.

 

9.3mpg running 70mph the whole trip. Really enjoyed the new found power and found EGTs very easy to manage maxing out around 1150, so I pushed it on the hills to see how it did. On the way home, I ran the speed limit and grabbed 5th on the long climbs and slowed down to 60 at 2400rpm, very happy there. Managed 10.7mpg.

 

Moral of the story, should have bought the Smarty sooner like you all suggested I am netting the same fuel economy with a taller, heavier trailer. 6th is usable on more than just rolling hills, and EGTs are much cooler and easy to manage. Truck pulls the way I expect a Cummins should. Very happy.

Edited May 8, 2017 by JPhauler87

[AH64ID]

Glad to hear it's working well for you. 

[JPhauler87]

Hi Guys

 

Back in October my girlfriend and I did a 5400+ trip to Utah and back with my truck, trailer and Jeep. Amazing trip. Truck was flawless, zero issues. 9.7mpg average with speeds at 65-70.

 

One persistent thing I have noticed that has always been a complaint of mine with this truck is that even when keeping speeds reasonable (65-70 on the interstate), the truck wants to make 20+ lb of boost for flat ground cruising. I realize my tall and heavy trailer put a load on it, but that seems like a lot. It makes 12-13psi doing 70 without a trailer on flat ground.

 

I was under the impression after some reading and a comment AH made here that the turbo itself may be to blame with a small and restrictive exhaust side. I have gotten a couple comments when asking about turbo upgrades stating that better tuning would be likely to net me a much better ROI.

 

I am running the Jr on SW3 85 POD and love it power wise. Full load, happy gauges on hills and plenty of power to merge and maintain speed on hills. Is better tuning a better option than a better flowing turbo exhaust side to get the truck to feel more relaxed and use a little less fuel?

[AH64ID]

Sounds like a fun trip!

 

Your mileage doesn’t sound too low for the weights and speeds. 

 

Yes, that much boost is a result of the turbine housing. 

 

I’m a huge fan of custom tuning, but it won’t make a night and day difference in cruise boost or mileage. 

 

I’m also a large fan of the modded HE351for applications like yours. The turbine housing is modified to take the HE351VE 70x60 turbine wheel. This will improve exhaust flow, lower mid range boost, decrease drive pressure, improve upper rpm performance, and it also seems to spook quicker. My dads 06 has this mod and I’m fairly certain if I had known about it before buying my Garrett I would have gone that route.