VP44 PSG5 limitations read/write

[rogerash0]

No, he's such a busy guy I havnt. Ive spoken to Rick and someone else. Every time Ive called that shop those guys are pretty barky on the phone and seem like they wanna get off in about 5-10 seconds, likely because everyone in the country is calling them all day long, they cant get anything done. I know how that feels at work. I did schedule a day to come by their shop on 6 or 7 Nov. One day is them, the other day is D&J. Hopefully they can help me out then. Im driving from Montana to Virginia, so I'll stop in Indiana and drive over there those two days.

Edited October 16, 2017 by rogerash0

[Dynamic]

Yeah, if they built the VB, they're the ones to talk to. I don't know exactly how they build theirs, or IF they even build theirs (or buy them from someone else). I DO know how I build mine, but that doesn't help here. Talking to whoever built it would be your next step...

 

I just saw that you're in Great Falls. If you're ever through Spokane, I'd be happy to take it for a drive and offer my opinion. Or, we could delve deeper into it if you don't get any satisfaction from the builders.

[rogerash0]

Ocean, I've played with the programmer a ton. I play with it almost every time I drive the truck. I had it on power lvl 1 to get a lot of TV input, and it was shifting nice, but the truck was slow. I finally got that play out of my cable, so I can run lvl 6-7 how I am now again. With my small injectors I need more power down low honestly, but I can feel when low-end fueling is rich and slows the spool down up. Im running lvl 3 lowend now, I had it on lvl 2 for a long time. Its only with the lift pump pressure up to 24-25-26psi that lvl 3 on setting 7 feels do-able now. Brand new II SO VP ran exactly the same as my current. I run timing on 2 because the truck drives much smoother with a nice linear pull of the chargers. Higher timing feels like it makes a deadspot around 1600-2200rpm.

Ive driven through Spokane a couple times. I definitely would have stopped by to see you, the truck used to drive a ton worse. I'll be out of here come 1 Nov, so unfortunately I dont see myself making it over there again (ive got a lot of packing still left to do)  Thank you for the offer though, I appreciate it.

Pepsi, it sounded to me like your TC locked at 43mph. I think your right that Im likely aruond 1300rpm at light throttle when it locks in 4th. I can push the pedal but its very lathargic and the whole time until it comes up 10mph, my EGTs are through the roof. Like 1400-1550 depending on how hard I push.

[pepsi71ocean]

5 hours ago, rogerash0 said:

Ocean, I've played with the programmer a ton. I play with it almost every time I drive the truck. I had it on power lvl 1 to get a lot of TV input, and it was shifting nice, but the truck was slow. I finally got that play out of my cable, so I can run lvl 6-7 how I am now again. With my small injectors I need more power down low honestly, but I can feel when low-end fueling is rich and slows the spool down up. Im running lvl 3 lowend now, I had it on lvl 2 for a long time. Its only with the lift pump pressure up to 24-25-26psi that lvl 3 on setting 7 feels do-able now. Brand new II SO VP ran exactly the same as my current. I run timing on 2 because the truck drives much smoother with a nice linear pull of the chargers. Higher timing feels like it makes a deadspot around 1600-2200rpm.

Ive driven through Spokane a couple times. I definitely would have stopped by to see you, the truck used to drive a ton worse. I'll be out of here come 1 Nov, so unfortunately I dont see myself making it over there again (ive got a lot of packing still left to do)  Thank you for the offer though, I appreciate it.

Pepsi, it sounded to me like your TC locked at 43mph. I think your right that Im likely aruond 1300rpm at light throttle when it locks in 4th. I can push the pedal but its very lathargic and the whole time until it comes up 10mph, my EGTs are through the roof. Like 1400-1550 depending on how hard I push.

I don't much about the edge, but I think that you have to realize what I did about the engine rpm, I had to come to accept life at higher rpm. I think @Mopar1973Man would be able to delve into the edge's settings better then I could to help with tweeking.

But I think that slight TV cable adjustment would be fine to adjust shifting if you turn the programmer up some, that is what I had to do.  

As for your deadspot, there is a timing change in that 1,500-2,200 rpm rage you speak of, It exists on my smarty as well, and something that was discussed on the Smarty Tuning thread. But be careful as there is the ability to add too much timing, but with 50hp sticks I don't think it is likely, unlike my 100's where I found too much timing on the truck on certain settings.

I think your VP's fuel pressure is to high, it should be 18psi max, out of fear of blowing out the front seal on the VP44.

 

Speaking of, here is my other video about my shifting, as you watch it you will see that I have to play with the O/D Off and "2" buttons to keep the truck rpm's up. Now it is interesting to note, my truck does exactly like you said about slamming gears when I have the Smarty turned back too far. 

 

I can't run Torque Management on 0/1/2 because the truck holds the gears into the 2,400 range and loves to slam gears. TM has to be on lvl 3 or 4 for me. If I turn it Up to 5 or 6 it will shuttle shifts sooner then it does now. I'm not entirely sure that it is the cause of your issues, but i suspect that it may be both the TV settings, and the programmer fighting one another.

[Me78569]

13 minutes ago, pepsi71ocean said:

As for your deadspot, there is a timing change in that 1,500-2,200 rpm rage you speak of, It exists on my smarty as well, and something that was discussed on the Smarty Tuning thread. But be careful as there is the ability to add too much timing, but with 50hp sticks I don't think it is likely, unlike my 100's where I found too much timing on the truck on certain settings

 

 

 

 

this isn't an issue using the Edge.  The Edge takes in ECM timing as the "base" then adds timing on top based on some sort of map.   What I found on the edge is that when you get hard on the throttle total output timing will drop as the ecm pulls timing.  You will see ~13-14* of timing in the region you are talking about touch less if boost is low and load is high.

 

the lul he is feeling is likely the opposite of what you feel.  His truck could likely use a touch more timing in that region.  

 

Maybe I am missing somehting but the edge comp doesn't give the user the ablity to control timing at all.

[rogerash0]

Interesting, Ill take the programmer off the truck and see if it drives any different. I've done that in the past though, troubleshooting a hard start condition, and it made no difference. I wasnt running it through *all* the gears then, though.

I dont think the Edge has a lot of tune-ability; it sounds like I really need to get the Quad. Looks like the guys here have done some real impressive stuff with the custom tuning to annihilate smoke pretty well.

 

My VP pressure if its 25psi at idle, will be 22-23 whilst driving, and still 15-16 at WOT. I dont know why it drops so badly, I've done from the 4G 165 motor to the 4G 200, installed a sump, 1/2" line no restrictions, make sure tank is vented, tried a brand new VP, tried different lines, everything I can think of. I run it at this high pressure because it enables the truck not to drop down to 10-12psi at WOT, which is even worse with bigger injectors, and because it enables me to run lvl7 without the truck shuttering. Ive had my VP at 40 psi for several hours previously, and it didnt blow the seal, on this very VP, so Im gonna run my luck. Plus I have a spare brand new VP sitting here now, anyway. Because I kept my core I'll never get anywhere close to what I paid for it, so Im keeping it..

@me, 

Quote

 

the lul he is feeling is likely the opposite of what you feel.  His truck could likely use a touch more timing in that region.  

 

Im running timing on 2, stock is 1. The lul I speak of only seems exasterbated at 3,4,5.

 

Also I am running the "new" Edge JWA Comp, it came out maybe 12-18 months ago, something like that.

https://edgeproducts.com/news/vp44-competition-juice-w-attitude/

7 power levels, fueling up to 3600rpm. I chose it because the tech told me if I send in my old edge product (and to keep it) that I would get 40% off. Well turns out it was 40% off MSRP, not 40% off selling price on their site, so it wasnt the deal I thought it was going to be, but it is what it is.

Edited October 16, 2017 by rogerash0

[Me78569]

2 minutes ago, rogerash0 said:

I dont think the Edge has a lot of tune-ability; it sounds like I really need to get the Quad. Looks like the guys here have done some real impressive stuff with the custom tuning to annihilate smoke pretty well.

I was just wondering what you meant by 

Quote

Higher timing feels like it makes a deadspot around 1600-2200rpm

 

How are you qualifing that you are using higher timing?  

[rogerash0]

I dont have a readout of the live timing; I see you are saying its dynamic based on throttle position and so fourth. I didnt know that, but it doesnt surprise me in the least. I quantify that my timing is greater by running the edge jwa comp tuner /w timing on 3,4, and 5 as a greater timing setting than with it set to 2.

Edited October 16, 2017 by rogerash0

[notlimah]

Have you double checked your fuel psi with a different gauge or reading from a different area? Seems you listed just about everything else you could change except that.

[rogerash0]

Yeah AD made me put a mechanical gauge on it to get the AD200 motor. It was a $25 gauge from the local hydraulic shop. I have tons of pics and videos of it, altho they didnt request to look at them. I thought I'd get a whole new unit sent out, but they just sent a 200 motor and said keep the 165 motor. They even had me put the 4G 200 motor on the original AD100 base that's not adjustable. Its still on there now. The fittings have larger ID's as well. Its also worth mentioning I had the original AD100 wiring harness in use when I first installed the AD165. Tried new filters, installed the brand new harness, tried the 200 motor, etc. All I can think of is the 2 prong cummins harness connector/connection isnt increasing the voltage of the pump as I stomp it, to make pressure not drop, if it even is meant to do that at all. I know they've thrown around some words like "on demand pump".

Edited October 16, 2017 by rogerash0

[Me78569]

oooh  you have the edge juice with attitude competition not the Edge Comp.  that makes WAY more sense.  

 

 

Yes there is a "juice timing" setting.  I can't speak to what it does on each level as the directions are vague.  I would make the same assumption that higher levels = more timing.  

 

I also can't speak to the timing curve on the Competition vs the Comp.  I would assume they use similar maps, and I would also assume that higher juice timing = the comp's timing and the juice timing allows you to pull timing down some as the comps timing is pretty aggressive. 

 

However that is a HUGE assumption and I can't speak to it beyond a guess.

[rogerash0]

For your lulz or ent

 

Fuel pressure sensor setup

 

WOT. It was not easy taking these photos. My boost should have been higher than 30, not sure what's going on here. Its possible I was snapping pics like a mad man just point and shooting, and boost hadnt topped out at this exact moment. Fuel pressure here tells me Im WOT.

 

Fuel pressure at idle. This would be with the Airdog2 4G base, 165 4G motor, no spring mods, this is a spring and how it ran from them. Fuel tank just below 1/2 tank, no sump yet in these testing/documenting pics.

 

Ya Im pretty much tracking with what you said @Me78569 ; I think thats accurate enough for government work. The description on the unit just says level 1 is stock, level 2 is 25% juice timing, 3 is 50%, 4 is 75%, and 5 is 100% juice timing.

 

With the 50 or 75hp 8hole mystery injectors in now, the ones the truck came with when I bought it, (I think they are 50s), Im at 24-25idle dropping to 15-16 on level 7 jwa comp. Not very good. It only hits 15psi for a brief moment or two, it primarily is at 16psi at WOT.

Edited October 16, 2017 by rogerash0

[notlimah]

Where was that gauge tapped into to get those readings?

[rogerash0]

Here

[Me78569]

39 minutes ago, rogerash0 said:

For your lulz or ent

 

Fuel pressure sensor setup

 

WOT. It was not easy taking these photos. My boost should have been higher than 30, not sure what's going on here. Its possible I was snapping pics like a mad man just point and shooting, and boost hadnt topped out at this exact moment. Fuel pressure here tells me Im WOT.

 

Fuel pressure at idle. This would be with the Airdog2 4G base, 165 4G motor, no spring mods, this is a spring and how it ran from them. Fuel tank just below 1/2 tank, no sump yet in these testing/documenting pics.

 

Ya Im pretty much tracking with what you said @Me78569 ; I think thats accurate enough for government work. The description on the unit just says level 1 is stock, level 2 is 25% juice timing, 3 is 50%, 4 is 75%, and 5 is 100% juice timing.

 

With the 50 or 75hp 8hole mystery injectors in now, the ones the truck came with when I bought it, (I think they are 50s), Im at 24-25idle dropping to 15-16 on level 7 jwa comp. Not very good. It only hits 15psi for a brief moment or two, it primarily is at 16psi at WOT.

The pressure drop is an airdog trait. I went through a lot of these issues

[rogerash0]

You're running Fass now?

[Me78569]

no the owner of pureflow ( the patent holder that airdog uses) gave me one of their commercial grade pumps because I went through so many of the airdog pumps.  

honestly I wouldn't worry about it too much, if it dies just get a replacement under warranty.

[rogerash0]

Well, its bad because Im running my VP above the pressure I should, and I dont even have real sticks in it right now. I can tell the pump is not a happy camper at 11-12 psi because it would shutter on level 7. I originally thought it was the programming, but it went away with my minimum lift pump supply being 15psi.

Even with it higher now at 24-25psi idle, who knows what happens when I put those 120hp DDPs back in. I'll be at sea level, so my pressure will likely be a bit higher again, but still....... These same injectors, never dropped below 16-17psi here in town on my original motor (53 block that cracked) with the original AD100. I have yet to put that AD100 motor back on.

Edited October 17, 2017 by rogerash0

[Me78569]

Call up airdog and see what they say about your huge pressure swings.  All I can say is it got me nowhere working with them.

[rogerash0]

Got me absolutely no where. Called them a million times. They have no explanation.