VP44 PSG5 limitations read/write

[pepsi71ocean]

On 10/3/2017 at 2:24 PM, rogerash0 said:

Im going to re-read this a couple times to get a better grasp on it all. So my torque converter is a lot to blame for the  early up shifts? Mine will be in 4th gear still at 25 mph probably, it takes quite a bit to get it to finally down shift, and when it does it goes straight to 2nd gear.

 

It stack shifts thru third gear on the upshift right into fourth probably 95% of the time. Theres been a couple times it pulls 3rd gear out and boy is it nice. Now wide open throttle it wont stack the shift -- I dont think -- but daily driving yes.

Im just wondering I suppose why my TC is too tight when I ordered a Comp I from Firepunk. I was thinking springs in the valve body and/or pressure screws needed adjusted to fix my early up shifts.. 

 

I read Dave Goerend's website with the FAQ about the torque converter, efficiency, stall speeds and such, but I still overall dont really have my head wrapped around what exactly a looser converter will do and how it'll fix my shifting problem(s).

 

Your truck is doing the exact same thing that my built auto does. I have to constantly shift the truck manually in order to keep smoking under control at 30/35 mph when I feel it should be in 3rd or even 2nd.

I don't exactly buy the the tight torque converter theory, mainly because I fail to see the reason for the truck to run around in 4th gear at 30

And despite this, It will eschew my smarty testing. 

Edited October 5, 2017 by pepsi71ocean

[rogerash0]

I agree 100% on the TC theory, Pepsi. Im sure there could be improvements as the lads suggest, I dont doubt that, but why on earth is it shifting into fourth at such a low rate of speed? It should be in third gear imo.. fourth gear would make sense at 45mph, and I get bloody TC lock at 50mph, which ofcourse just bogs the truck down to 1200rpm Im pretty sure. When it's hot and/or Im at elevation, especially on hills, or the motor is cold, it smokes and bogs like hell at 50mph when it locks.

 

What do you mean it will eschew your smarty testing?

 

Ofcourse now with a belt thats not slipping when I turn the alternator nut, the valve lash double checked, the tires back to third gen 17" rims & tires, and the air being colder, its running a lot better. I also tin foiled my brown striped ground wire going over the alternator and I honestly believe it did help "a tad".

 

Im gonna go run the truck and get results for the previous posts.

On 10/3/2017 at 12:28 PM, jlbayes said:

When you get a free second. Go out and brake torque the truck. Watch what the tach goes to. I haven't experienced a truck yet stack the shifts with a tight converter. I have however experienced one that will stack the shifts with the tv cable not adjusted correctly. 

 

I have never brake torqued the truck. Do you mean hold the brakes and step into the pedal until I see what the maximum RPM rise is? I know this is hard on the converter, goerend's website said not to do it. Ofcourse its what guys doing boosted launches do. I'll do it once and see how it goes. I'll get the engine warm and tranny temps up to 150-175 first.

[rogerash0]

Ok lads, just got back from doing some road testing. Im giving all this extra data, some of which you may already know, just to be clear and concise about the exact conditions, so that you may address any thoughts/concerns/advice as accurately as possible. Hopefully its not a chore to read; if it is let me know.

 

Edge juice with attitude competition (7 power levels)

13.7-14.2v @ idle and/or whilst driving. Typically see 13.9-14.1, which makes the fuel lift pump pressure vary. I dont know why it flucuates so much. This is not with an external voltage regulator. I never did take the wiring harness (capacitor or resister?) mod pictured around pg 3 of this thread out. Not yet.

Airdog 200 4G motor on non-adjustable AD 1 base. 17-18psi with truck in gear. 18-19psi @ idle. 17-20psi overall due to voltage fluctuation.

Saw a max of 41psi today @ 63*F, saw a max of 43psi when air temps were 32*F the other day /w my 62/68/.80 + S475/96/1.32. Banks 4" intake tube, big horn intake (CNC ported to 4" on the inlet), the stg2 porting by D&J on intake & exhaust /w billet runner + bar and plate intercooler by Mishimoto. I only see max boost when I think it is locking the TC in 4th gear around 92mph on the dash. This is at WOT throttle. Prior to that in fourth with TC unlocked (or is this third with TC locked? Im not sure) I see around 36psi max at WOT, until that big 4th gear locked load is placed on the engine.

I am running a set of third gen tires, 275/70/17 wheels & tires.

63*F according to my phone, my outdoor gauge is within 2*F in the shade. Very windy day. 3330' elevation.

Stock/reman VP44, 50-75hp injectors not sure which.

 

For some reason my dash's speed tach (whats that called again?), even with the edge juice with attitude set to correct stock and current size tires, is off typically by about 5mph in town driving. I am going off of my phones app called DigiHUD that uses satellite GPS to get my speed. Here were my findings. Again this is with the 17" third gen wheels and tires, which Edge showed to be 31.6", the stockers being 30.5". I got the stock tire size /w E rating from Discounttire.com. The D rated tires they listed were 225, the E rated were 245 (stock sizes).

 

Edge on lvl 6 fueling to 3200rpm, lowend 3, timing 2

Dash showed 20mph, phone showed 19mph

Dashed showed 30 mph, phone showed 36mph

Dash showed 51mph, phone showed 45-46mph

Dash showed 80mph, phone showed 71 mph

Dash showed 90mph, phone showed 79 mph.

 

Im assuming the dash is wrong. This truck got new calipers/rotors/brake lines & wheel speed sensors in my aginst to fix the ABS light coming on. It had the whole front end rebuilt with new ball joints. New trans speed & rear diff speed sensor. The only sensors not new are coolant temp sensor, brake switch (not a sensor but I have it, but its not in yet) & engine oil pressure sensor. The engine oil pressure sensor is going out and ill be here next week. I need to find another GPS to verify which reading is correct, the dash or my phone.

 

Shift Points:

I called out each shift best I could from a total stop to WOT /w Edge on setting 6. I had the truck on a road or hwy with minimal to no traffic. Took me a few tries to be sure I was calling out the shift points correctly.

With trans @ 165*F; these readings are all off the dash! I couldnt look at my phone-- I was flooring it and staying in it.

1-2 Shift - 20mph

2-3 Shift - 45mph

3-4 Shift - 80mph

4th to TC Lock 4th - 95mph

When the TC locks at the dash's reported 95mph, I can feel the power to the ground increase, and the needle start to drop even faster.

 

Trans @ 179*F, second test

1-2 Shift - 22mph

2-3 Shift - 42mph

3-4 Shift - 82mph

4th to TC Lock 4th - 95mph

 

Im sure my readings are 2-4mph off just from glancing down a fraction of a second late as I felt the shift. My eyes were primarily on the road.

 

I did a brake boost for the first time ever. Video'd the dash whilst doing it.

Trans was at 123*F, fuel pressure was 17-19psi depending on voltage, edge on 5, lowend on 3, timing 2. IAT 107*F. EGTs at 345*F to begin while truck is parked, idling. Likely applied 75% throttle dropped to 50% after it was smoking like a siv at the stall.

 

Tach stalled at 1400-1500 momentarily, I looked in the rear view and smoke was pouring out, then the truck overcame this stall point and quickly climbed to 2450rpms. I let out of the gas because I felt the enormous amount of torque being held up in the brakes. I could upload a video if it would help. It climbed very quickly after surpassing the "stall point" if I dare call it that.

Here's a video in case its worth more than words, hopefully it works:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8_XcOA-iWW1UkJmakxYX2NwUVE

 

When it was over I heard a hissing which was intermediately audible whilst the brake pedal was (still) depressed. So I dropped her in drive and rolled on down the hill, down the highway to hopefully cool everything off under the hood. Things seem fine.

 

Edited October 6, 2017 by rogerash0

[Mopar1973Man]

10 minutes ago, rogerash0 said:

the stockers being 30.5". I got the stock tire size /w E rating from Discounttire.com. The D rated tires they listed were 225, the E rated were 245 (stock sizes).

 

Stock on most truck is NOT the door stricker. Like on my 02 it shows that goofy 245 size but it came stock with 265/75 R16. Like my 1996 Dodge Ram 1500 shows 225/75 R16 but came stock with 235/85 R16... So calibrate for 265's I bet its right on the money...

[rogerash0]

Yes sir - I knew its a 2500 heavy duty truck, diesel, it surely came with E's on it. I've only ever seen E's on my truck, and only ever bought E's for it. So I calibrated it for the E size 245/75/r16 as the stock size. Those numbers are from discount tire's website, not the door sticker.. for some reason I didnt think to look there.

 

I also got out and read the size of my current tires right off the side wall to be sure I inputted the modified tire size correctly. It seems like it makes not a difference in the world. Prior the calibration Im speaking of currently, it was still loaded for my 35" tires, so I thought it would fix the problem, but it did nothing. Perhaps I can call Edge about it tomorrow, but something tells me they wont be able to help (I've called many a time).

 

I'll go calibrate the stock size as 265/75/r16 as you suggest and see what it does on a a short little drive.

-----------------------

Back from the drive. No difference. Turbo timer and all other functions seem to work properly. I havnt used the gas mileage function it. 

 

Also did some repeated testing, and saw that it doesnt downshift from 4th gear until right at 15mph per the dash. I thought it may at 17, but 15 was right on the money. When it does downshift, it goes right from 4th to 2nd. Is that normal? Same way that it shifts up, essentially.

Edited October 7, 2017 by rogerash0

[pepsi71ocean]

5 hours ago, rogerash0 said:

I agree 100% on the TC theory, Pepsi. Im sure there could be improvements as the lads suggest, I dont doubt that, but why on earth is it shifting into fourth at such a low rate of speed? It should be in third gear imo.. fourth gear would make sense at 45mph, and I get bloody TC lock at 50mph, which ofcourse just bogs the truck down to 1200rpm Im pretty sure. When it's hot and/or Im at elevation, especially on hills, or the motor is cold, it smokes and bogs like hell at 50mph when it locks.

 

What do you mean it will eschew your smarty testing?

 

Ofcourse now with a belt thats not slipping when I turn the alternator nut, the valve lash double checked, the tires back to third gen 17" rims & tires, and the air being colder, its running a lot better. I also tin foiled my brown striped ground wire going over the alternator and I honestly believe it did help "a tad".

 

Im gonna go run the truck and get results for the previous posts.

 

I have never brake torqued the truck. Do you mean hold the brakes and step into the pedal until I see what the maximum RPM rise is? I know this is hard on the converter, goerend's website said not to do it. Ofcourse its what guys doing boosted launches do. I'll do it once and see how it goes. I'll get the engine warm and tranny temps up to 150-175 first.

 

My disagreement with the TC theory is that I don't think the truck should be running around in the wrong gear, I don't like my truck running around in 4th gear at 20 mph. If I shift my truck at the proper rpm shifting, she is smoke and lag free.  This is where my disagreement comes from. 

I totally get the ideal of easier to spool, but if that was the case the truck should be 2nd gear instead of 3rd or 4th at such slow speeds.  For me when towing You want a lower gear anyways, because you want more torque multiplication, In which the lower stall speed will help with getting the load moving, I just don't think it is smart, or wise to run around towing heavy loads at 1,100rpm's when boosting, the truck should be ideally between 1,700 and 2,300 rpm's when towing. This is what (DTT) explained to me when I got my transmission built. And despite multiple attempts of adjusting the TV cable I was never able to get the shifting issues figured out, so I run around with O/D OFF, and sometimes the truck in 2nd as well. And I have no lagging or anything, the truck moves loads. 

I sometimes think people forget our baby Cummins is 1/3 the size of the motors in the semi trucks I drive at work, and the engines in the semi world are designed for 1,300 to 1,800 rpm applications, these baby Cummins need to be higher up the power band.

 

3 hours ago, rogerash0 said:

Ok lads, just got back from doing some road testing. Im giving all this extra data, some of which you may already know, just to be clear and concise about the exact conditions, so that you may address any thoughts/concerns/advice as accurately as possible. Hopefully its not a chore to read; if it is let me know.

 

Edge juice with attitude competition (7 power levels)

13.7-14.2v @ idle and/or whilst driving. Typically see 13.9-14.1, which makes the fuel lift pump pressure vary. I dont know why it flucuates so much. This is not with an external voltage regulator. I never did take the wiring harness (capacitor or resister?) mod pictured around pg 3 of this thread out. Not yet.

Airdog 200 4G motor on non-adjustable AD 1 base. 17-18psi with truck in gear. 18-19psi @ idle. 17-20psi overall due to voltage fluctuation.

Saw a max of 41psi today @ 63*F, saw a max of 43psi when air temps were 32*F the other day /w my 62/68/.80 + S475/96/1.32. Banks 4" intake tube, big horn intake (CNC ported to 4" on the inlet), the stg2 porting by D&J on intake & exhaust /w billet runner + bar and plate intercooler by Mishimoto. I only see max boost when I think it is locking the TC in 4th gear around 92mph on the dash. This is at WOT throttle. Prior to that in fourth with TC unlocked (or is this third with TC locked? Im not sure) I see around 36psi max at WOT, until that big 4th gear locked load is placed on the engine.

I am running a set of third gen tires, 275/70/17 wheels & tires.

63*F according to my phone, my outdoor gauge is within 2*F in the shade. Very windy day. 3330' elevation.

Stock/reman VP44, 50-75hp injectors not sure which.

 

I wouldn't bet on the fluctuations of the fuel psi being related to the voltage. My FASS 95gph pump still cycles on batteries, I suspect it has to do with the engine. 

13.7-14.2V is normal for the Alternator charging.

 

Quote

For some reason my dash's speed tach (whats that called again?), even with the edge juice with attitude set to correct stock and current size tires, is off typically by about 5mph in town driving. I am going off of my phones app called DigiHUD that uses satellite GPS to get my speed. Here were my findings. Again this is with the 17" third gen wheels and tires, which Edge showed to be 31.6", the stockers being 30.5". I got the stock tire size /w E rating from Discounttire.com. The D rated tires they listed were 225, the E rated were 245 (stock sizes).

 

Edge on lvl 6 fueling to 3200rpm, lowend 3, timing 2

Dash showed 20mph, phone showed 19mph

Dashed showed 30 mph, phone showed 36mph

Dash showed 51mph, phone showed 45-46mph

Dash showed 80mph, phone showed 71 mph

Dash showed 90mph, phone showed 79 mph.

 

Im assuming the dash is wrong. This truck got new calipers/rotors/brake lines & wheel speed sensors in my aginst to fix the ABS light coming on. It had the whole front end rebuilt with new ball joints. New trans speed & rear diff speed sensor. The only sensors not new are coolant temp sensor, brake switch (not a sensor but I have it, but its not in yet) & engine oil pressure sensor. The engine oil pressure sensor is going out and ill be here next week. I need to find another GPS to verify which reading is correct, the dash or my phone.

 

Shift Points:

I called out each shift best I could from a total stop to WOT /w Edge on setting 6. I had the truck on a road or hwy with minimal to no traffic. Took me a few tries to be sure I was calling out the shift points correctly.

With trans @ 165*F; these readings are all off the dash! I couldnt look at my phone-- I was flooring it and staying in it.

When the TC locks at the dash's reported 95mph, I can feel the power to the ground increase, and the needle start to drop even faster.

 

1-2 Shift - 20mph

2-3 Shift - 45mph

3-4 Shift - 80mph

4th to TC Lock 4th - 95mph

My Shift points were close, 

 

1-2 Shift - 25mph @  3000 rpm

2-3 Shift - 42mph @  3000 rpm

3-4 Shift - 65mph @  3000 rpm

4th to TC Lock 4th - 75mph @ 2,500 rpm

Quote

Trans @ 179*F, second test

1-2 Shift - 22mph

2-3 Shift - 42mph

3-4 Shift - 82mph

4th to TC Lock 4th - 95mph

 

Im sure my readings are 2-4mph off just from glancing down a fraction of a second late as I felt the shift. My eyes were primarily on the road.

 

I did a brake boost for the first time ever. Video'd the dash whilst doing it.

Trans was at 123*F, fuel pressure was 17-19psi depending on voltage, edge on 5, lowend on 3, timing 2. IAT 107*F. EGTs at 345*F to begin while truck is parked, idling. Likely applied 75% throttle dropped to 50% after it was smoking like a siv at the stall.

 

Tach stalled at 1400-1500 momentarily, I looked in the rear view and smoke was pouring out, then the truck overcame this stall point and quickly climbed to 2450rpms. I let out of the gas because I felt the enormous amount of torque being held up in the brakes. I could upload a video if it would help. It climbed very quickly after surpassing the "stall point" if I dare call it that.

Here's a video in case its worth more than words, hopefully it works:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8_XcOA-iWW1UkJmakxYX2NwUVE

 

When it was over I heard a hissing which was intermediately audible whilst the brake pedal was (still) depressed. So I dropped her in drive and rolled on down the hill, down the highway to hopefully cool everything off under the hood. Things seem fine.

 

 

I've found that test to be about useless, because you can easily achieve the same by running around in locked gear and see at what point the truck really takes off. When I did this test I came up with about 1,500/1,600 rpm as where the truck likes to accelerate the most. 

 

 

2 hours ago, rogerash0 said:

Yes sir - I knew its a 2500 heavy duty truck, diesel, it surely came with E's on it. I've only ever seen E's on my truck, and only ever bought E's for it. So I calibrated it for the E size 245/75/r16 as the stock size. Those numbers are from discount tire's website, not the door sticker.. for some reason I didnt think to look there.

 

I also got out and read the size of my current tires right off the side wall to be sure I inputted the modified tire size correctly. It seems like it makes not a difference in the world. Prior the calibration Im speaking of currently, it was still loaded for my 35" tires, so I thought it would fix the problem, but it did nothing. Perhaps I can call Edge about it tomorrow, but something tells me they wont be able to help (I've called many a time).

 

I'll go calibrate the stock size as 265/75/r16 as you suggest and see what it does on a a short little drive.

-----------------------

Back from the drive. No difference. Turbo timer and all other functions seem to work properly. I havnt used the gas mileage function it. 

 

Also did some repeated testing, and saw that it doesnt downshift from 4th gear until right at 15mph per the dash. I thought it may at 17, but 15 was right on the money. When it does downshift, it goes right from 4th to 2nd. Is that normal? Same way that it shifts up, essentially.

I think your speedo is not correct. Because My truck with the 215/75/R16's is within 1/2mph at hwy speed. 

The downshifting from 4th to 2nd is exactly what I feel as well. But I never let it get that far now, I'll shift the truck first. But it should pick a gear relative to speed. (Or so I would Think).

Edited October 7, 2017 by pepsi71ocean

[dripley]

As far as tire sizes go, Discount Tire always considers the stock size as 245's. Our trucks are listed stock with 245's. Hence the door sticker. The 265's that came on mine were listed as an option on the window sticker and I am sure I paid something extra for them.

 

 

[rogerash0]

Ah yes, you put your shifting/TC concern in much better words than I did.

My speedo surely is off; if I look at my GPS speeds, my shift points are within 5mph or less of all of yours listed. The greatest variance being at top speed.

This is why I'm stopping by Firepunk on the way to VA in a month, I really hope they can help.

With my alternator not charging, running around at 12.8v or whatever it was, and with the grid heater lowering the voltage to 12.2 or 12.4v when its on, and cycling off, can say I have consistently watched a linear drop in fuel pump PSI delivered by the Airdog in coordination with the voltage readout. I agree that it shouldnt do this, but it seems it very much does. I also have a 6psi loss on WOT, and I have tried everything under the sun from sump kit to bigger fittings, to original AD base, to lower pressure for "more volume", etc. I have a 30psi spring on the kitchen counter right now that I would like to try out, to see if I can feel a performance increase with the VP not dropping down to 12psi at WOT. I've got a brand new II SO VP44 on the shelf after all, since even a new one didnt change my outcome. 

I wasnt really sure what the brake boost test was set to achieve or determine; my power comes on exactly as you described. I didnt go jump in the truck to confirm that just now, but I know well enough that that's when the powerband likes to come on nice & juicy. 

I would drive around with OD off but when the TC locks in third at 30mph its just ugly, especially with a cold engine. Smoke output increases, and I hear something metallic. Im still convinced there's something wrong with the converter, because it didnt do that when new.

 

Also my 2nd gear has always had a fairly nasty hit when it engages ever since new, unless the TV cable is set just right. Right now its back to being a bit grumpy and hitting hard, I think the cable is easily adjusted when I work in the engine bay by me bumping wires (I swapped out an Edge tuner for another, then put the original back in). Even with the clip in place. Grated typically when I adjust it I feel a difference in pedal tension/pressure, due to the cable, and my pedal feels the same, but it seems a bit finicky where the only difference in the outcome I get from messing with the TV cable is how smooth the shifts are -- getting rid of that nasty hit of a clunk you can hear through the whole drivetrain when she goes into second gear.

 

The truck also, with the TV cable mysteriously out of adjustment like I mentioned, will shift into second and then third gear just idling down my road. Its going maybe 15-20mph by then. No pedal at all, or I'll gas it enough to get up to 10mph because I drive slowly around the neighborhood, and she just motors on up and shifts up by herself and Im doing 20mph+ in third gear before I know it just a block away. I know just a wks ago I had the TV cable set so it wouldnt go into third gear idling, and it wouldnt hit hard into second. However I suspect the tire swap going from 35" tires to stock size third gen 17's may have something to do with the truck rolling faster on its own now. Perhaps not so much the TV cable getting bumped out of adjustment.

On 10/3/2017 at 12:58 PM, Dynamic said:

At what RPM is your WOT 1-2 upshift?

I apologize, somehow I forgot about the RPM tid-bit. It looks like 1700-1800rpms to me in this video I took of a WOT from a stop.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8_XcOA-iWW1Mk5BN0JUa0o3Szg

[pepsi71ocean]

22 minutes ago, rogerash0 said:

Ah yes, you put your shifting/TC concern in much better words than I did.

 

That is what I'm trying to say. I totally would agree with the TC theory if the gearing was correct. But I feel that there is no reason for it to be in 3rd or 4th gear, even at speeds that I believe that 2nd gear is not only warranted but I think suggested. 

 

Quote

My speedo surely is off; if I look at my GPS speeds, my shift points are within 5mph or less of all of yours listed. The greatest variance being at top speed.

This is why I'm stopping by Firepunk on the way to VA in a month, I really hope they can help.

 

If you do and they find a solution please let me know.

 

Quote

With my alternator not charging, running around at 12.8v or whatever it was, and with the grid heater lowering the voltage to 12.2 or 12.4v when its on, and cycling off, can say I have consistently watched a linear drop in fuel pump PSI delivered by the Airdog in coordination with the voltage readout. I agree that it shouldnt do this, but it seems it very much does. I also have a 6psi loss on WOT, and I have tried everything under the sun from sump kit to bigger fittings, to original AD base, to lower pressure for "more volume", etc. I have a 30psi spring on the kitchen counter right now that I would like to try out, to see if I can feel a performance increase with the VP not dropping down to 12psi at WOT. I've got a brand new II SO VP44 on the shelf after all, since even a new one didnt change my outcome. 

 

That is very odd, what is your fuel pipe diameter? is your pump grounded correctly to the battery and the relay is powered up? I see a steady 17-18psi, with a 2psi drop on my system, and I'm running 3/8"s everywhere except between the FASS and the Fuel tank. That is 1/2" and I have almost no pressure problems.

 

Quote

I wasnt really sure what the brake boost test was set to achieve or determine; my power comes on exactly as you described. I didnt go jump in the truck to confirm that just now, but I know well enough that that's when the powerband likes to come on nice & juicy. 

I would drive around with OD off but when the TC locks in third at 30mph its just ugly, especially with a cold engine. Smoke output increases, and I hear something metallic. Im still convinced there's something wrong with the converter, because it didnt do that when new.

 

I had a similar issue with my truck running around at 1,100rpms locked up, i was told it was the springs in the TC that were bouncing due to the torque reversals in the crankshaft. I found that upping the timing on my smarty eliminated that metallic noise, on the current smarty setting.

 

Quote

The truck also, with the TV cable mysteriously out of adjustment like I mentioned, will shift into second and then third gear just idling down my road. Its going maybe 15-20mph by then. No pedal at all, or I'll gas it enough to get up to 10mph because I drive slowly around the neighborhood, and she just motors on up and shifts up by herself and Im doing 20mph+ in third gear before I know it just a block away. I know just a wks ago I had the TV cable set so it wouldnt go into third gear idling, and it wouldnt hit hard into second. However I suspect the tire swap going from 35" tires to stock size third gen 17's may have something to do with the truck rolling faster on its own now. Perhaps not so much the TV cable getting bumped out of adjustment.

 

My truck will idle up as well. I can hit 15 mph if it let it roll down the road. But at an idle in Drive she will even shift into 2nd. and I'll hit 15mph. 

 

Edited October 7, 2017 by pepsi71ocean

[rogerash0]

I've played with timing a lot; I'll up the timing and see if it makes a difference but I played /w it so much and used to run high timing so Im 99% sure it wont change it. I had a Smarty too, which I think did have my speedo calibrated at one point. Since then I have sold the Smarty.

 

I've ran the ADII 165 4G and 200 4G, both with pretty much the same results. I've tried three different relays, old relay from original AD harness, new one from the store, and the one that came on the new harness. I had an AD100 that never dropped pressure as you describe, but that was on my old motor, too. I do believe the pump is grounded to the battery properly.. Ive visited my battery terminals about a million times. Also I originally ran the AD100 harness, had this problem, so I put the new (same but new) harness on and no different. Tried 10 micron filters, bought new W/S of different brand and different brand 2 micron filter at Napa. I run 1/2"  from a tank sump all the way to the VP with no T's or obstructions of any kind. I also leave my fuel cap 1/2 turn loose because I was getting some vacuum in the tank, even with a vent on top that I saw fuel come out of when I filled the tank all the way up. The vacuum would make the AD motor whine and I would get a loss of PSI worth a few "points" if you will. I would also hear air woosh into the tank when I opened my tank. It would probably start to play up after driving the truck and sucking down 1/8 tank, and certainly by the time I had gone through 1/4 tank. I think if I just drove 10mins to work it wouldnt make a difference, but on long drives it did. The motor whining, and stopping whining when I equalized the pressure in the tank to the atmosphere as I heard the woosh of air entering in it --- made me say OK I do have some kind of vacuum problem. Since then I leave the cap 1/2 turn loose and no such thing any more. 

Edit; I also bought a new fuel cap and no change. 

Edited October 7, 2017 by rogerash0

[notlimah]

The smarty won't store speedo settings once you put everything back to stock.

 

The second gear being harsh sounds like a valve body/line pressure thing to me. I had Jon specifically build mine to shift better when towing. It shifts smoother with a load or when I'm around 50% throttle or more. 1-2 can be firm with low throttle (ie slow acceleration) but anytime you get on it fairly decent it shifts butter smooth. Now that I've been running the smarty the shift from 1-2 has really mellowed out I assume because of the higher throttle position earlier in the pedal movement but it's been a good compromise. Before it was definitely firm, but not spine jolting. 

 

My converter will idle the truck around at a decent pace but won't shift, that definitely sounds odd. Sounds like something either electronic or valve body related to me but that's just a guess. 

 

Also, if your truck is shifting at 17-1800 WOT from a stop 1-2, you should adjust your able so you're seeing around 2800rpm. That could be why you're seeing such early/stacked shifts.

[Mopar1973Man]

You got to remember that the torque converter is going to dictate the RPM that truck is going to run at RPM wise. Like if you have a lower than stall converter and large injectors with a Smarty with little to no fuel to boost control you going to have a smoke issue.

 

As for which gear the transmission is running in is based on spring tension and hydraulic pressure for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear. This is based on TV cable adjustments and valve body setup more so. 

Edited October 7, 2017 by Mopar1973Man

[rogerash0]

13 hours ago, notlimah said:

The smarty won't store speedo settings once you put everything back to stock.

Yep, tracking.

The second gear being harsh sounds like a valve body/line pressure thing to me. I had Jon specifically build mine to shift better when towing. It shifts smoother with a load or when I'm around 50% throttle or more. 1-2 can be firm with low throttle (ie slow acceleration) but anytime you get on it fairly decent it shifts butter smooth. Now that I've been running the smarty the shift from 1-2 has really mellowed out I assume because of the higher throttle position earlier in the pedal movement but it's been a good compromise. Before it was definitely firm, but not spine jolting. 

I can say the same for my trans, if Im 50% or more throttle if shifts well. But I have to turn my tuner level to 0 or 1 to use that much throttle and not be zooming fast everywhere, blowing clouds of smoke on initial take off. Its a ton better with my smaller tires now, but if I do 50% throttle from a turn onto a road on 4,5, or 6 I will be squealing tires. And I dont even feel like my truck is very fast. Not half as fast as I expected it to be. Im used to driving on 5 or 6 lvl Edge, using maybe 10-15-20% throttle most of the time driving normally, but that makes for the hard shifts, because that TV lever is not articulating at the trans -- from what I have gathered. Surely Im not the first with this problem. And right now I only have the small 50 or 75hp sticks in them. They came in the truck, they are 8 hole, I dont know exactly what they are.

My converter will idle the truck around at a decent pace but won't shift, that definitely sounds odd. Sounds like something either electronic or valve body related to me but that's just a guess. 

Maybe this weekend I will rip the odd addition out of the wiring harness up by the PCM, that I pictured earlier in the thread.

Also, if your truck is shifting at 17-1800 WOT from a stop 1-2, you should adjust your able so you're seeing around 2800rpm. That could be why you're seeing such early/stacked shifts.

Im telling ya, short of making a video to prove how the tranny shifts with the cable at max adjustment for+aft & in the middle, the cable does diddly squat. Ive messed with it time and time again. It was the first thing I turned to a couple yrs ago when I tried to remedy this problem. The biggest thing it does is change the tension on the cable hooked up to the pedal that my right foot sits on. Makes it firmer or softer. Also changes the speed at which the trans will downshift or up shift just slightly. I will continue to play with it, maybe I'll make a short video showing the results.

 

[notlimah]

Trying to explain things like 'harsh shifting' over a forum is really tough because everyone has a different definition of the word. I will say that while mine will shift firm when low throttle, it's no where near harsh. You definitely know it shifted, and it's really pronounced but I couldn't describe it anywhere near harsh or violent. The more I'm towing or the harder I accelerate empty, the smoother it is.

[rogerash0]

Ya mine is definitely smoother the more I tow or harder I accelerate. When I say harsh I mean a nasty audible clunk, jolt, bang, or seat of the pants jerk.

 

I just managed to mess with the TV cable more and the first thing I noticed when moving the accelerator pedal rod under the apps cover, was that there was about a 1/4" of slack in the TV cable before it started to move when pushing per-say on the accelerator. So I figured when Im at 10-15% throttle, the cable wasnt moving at all. I took the clip off, and only saw the slack disappear with the TV cable at its full outward position. I pulled it out until I saw a red spring in the assembly, then seated it back in at the very end of its outward adjustment, and now the truck is holding first gear at 3000rpm at WOT, and 3k in every gear after that minus 4th gear TC lockup.

 

Becasue under light acceleration it actually holds first gear until 1600rpm now, its already on the chargers when it goes into 2nd gear at 10-15mph (depending on how much pedal I put into it). This has reduced the smoke immensely. It also seems to be holding third gear for an actual 5mph now, around 30-35mph, rather than shifting right through it. Still speaking, at light to moderate acceleration. I'll have to drive the truck more to see how it does at purely light acceleration, driving slow around town.

 

Also the TC lockup almost makes no metallic sound now. Its still there but its very faint now. TC lockup feels more like a smooth shift's engagement, quick like a switch switch, smooth and almost instant with no bog. Before the rpms would rise a bit, then it would bog rather badly, and the truck would have a light shudder. Like it took a solid 2 seconds for TC to lock. Also, before, its behavior would be erratic, sometimes not bad, occasionally great, generally terrible. But how terrible lockup shuttered/bogged/sounded/how long it took seemed to be different almost every time it engaged. Now it feels consist, quick, smooth, no terrible bog, and good.

 

Overall its night and day better. I also adjusted my APPS again, because the truck has since been through 3 alternators and now I know my batteries are fully charged and so on. Its been something Ive been meaning to check for months now. It was sitting at 4.6v with cold engine/batterys that havnt been driven at all today. Wells class for 0.5v to 0.6v. So I set it to 5.08v, drove it, came back and checked it and it read 5.65v. I thought the voltage would go up with a warm engine and batteries that had been used recently. I noticed the voltage it would land at would be close to 5.65v every time, unless I did WOT, then it would drop much lower down to say 5.01-5.25v somewhere in that range, not consisantly. I set it back down to 5.10v without a WOT snap (so it would be under 5v with a WOT snap), with the truck being warm now, and it was hitting gears hard and downshifting hard. Put it back to 6.01v at the side of the curb, and it was shifting much better.

 

I adjusted the stop on the accelerator rod rather than taking the APPS assembly off and clocking the APPS sensor. Essentially Moparman said to adjust the stop, dont bother with clocking the APPS sensor in his write up, but that was for Timbo I do believe. Would this still apply to me Moparman, with the Wells hall-effect sensor? It seemed to work well, and saved me time, so I was content with it.

 

Im going to go let the TV cable inward a bit more and see what it does for me, because my pedal is ultra stiff, and the cable is very much taught/tight. I'd like to see it have just a tiny tid bit less tension to it. 

 

Overall its driving night and day better. I dont know why I had 1/4" slack in the TV cable... and it seems I have to be almost max outward adjustment to get rid of it. Now the TV cable is actually moving when the throttle moves. Its a night and day difference driving the truck. Runs faster. Pulls harder. Doesnt shift into 3rd gear rolling. Rolls at 14mph in 2nd gear, or 20mph in 4th gear if I slow down to 15mph it will downshift from 4th to 2nd. It will actually roll in first gear instead of upshifting to 2nd gear right away at idle when first put into gear and foot off the brake.

 

It also downshifts into 2nd gear much more promptly, with about 25% throttle now rather than me having to mash it 50% to 100% throttle to make it downshift under hard acceleration. This saves a ton of smoke from pouring out the tail pipe. When I need to get on it and the stupid thing is in 4th gear because Im doing 20mph and havnt slowed down to 15mph, its a big deal. Theres so much bog and hesitation waiting for it to get going when you expect to move "now", I think the 2nd gear downshifting much more promtply now with less pedal is a step in the right direction. Also saves the truck from loading up on fuel, increasing "go" time due to bog.

 

To show, heres a video. Im assuming these have been working for you guys. I cant see any # of views or anything. You'd think I could.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8_XcOA-iWW1ZWNoNDBfQWhSekU

Video is Edge on 6, lowend 2, timing 2. 55*F air.

Edited October 7, 2017 by rogerash0

[pepsi71ocean]

My 1-2 Shift under any throttle is roughly 2,000 rpm, and 2-3 is also about 1,800rpm. 

I'm glad that you got that figured out.

Now my next questions about burning up alternators, have you checked your ground cables for a vDrop test?

[rogerash0]

Well I hope 3k rpm isnt too high then. All I can say is it feels like its hauling the mail, running strong. It seemed like the trans wasnt taking on as much heat as I continued to drive around for an hour and "test it out" or "beat on it" however you wanna look at it. I loosened the TV cable up a bit by adjusting it inward just a tad from max out, and went back to max out. Second gear is actually holding until 28mph when it shifts to third, and it seems to be going into fourth gear at 40mph. So I am much happier with that. The downshift to accelerate hard from approx 30mph called for the cable to be as tight as possible (adjuster max outward) to get that thing to downshift to 2nd gear as promptly as possible.

 

Im not sure about testing ground cables for a vdrop test. I think I did read something akin to that somewhere, at some point. I have added a ground cable to the frame using a battery cable from a farm store. It goes from the passenger side battery to the frame. I did clean with a wire brush all grounds on the truck, carb clean em, and use diaeletric grease on everything. That was one of the very first things I did to the truck some years ago. Including the one underneath the drivers side battery tray. Including the two big connectors underneath the drivers side door by the frame. Including the connections by the bumper. Including adding a ground strap to the ECM and making sure the PCM has it's ground strap. Bed has its ground strap. I was testing for continuity & testing for low resistance to ground across surfaces like alternator body, engine, this ground to that ground, etc some time ago and concluded things looked good.

 

Sounds like I probably need to do what youre talking about. That and I havnt opened up the inside of the fuse box and completely gone through it to clean it out, from the inside out.

Edited October 8, 2017 by rogerash0

[pepsi71ocean]

14 minutes ago, rogerash0 said:

Well I hope 3k rpm isnt too high then. All I can say is it feels like its hauling the mail, running strong. It seemed like the trans wasnt taking on as much heat as I continued to drive around for an hour and "test it out" or "beat on it" however you wanna look at it. I loosened the TV cable up a bit by adjusting it inward just a tad from max out, and went back to max out. Second gear is actually holding until 28mph when it shifts to third, and it seems to be going into fourth gear at 40mph. So I am much happier with that. The downshift to accelerate hard from approx 30mph called for the cable to be as tight as possible (adjuster max outward) to get that thing to downshift to 2nd gear as promptly as possible.

 

WOT for me is about 3,000 on most of the shifts. But for me anywhere up to 35% throttle i see 2,000 on 1 and 2nd shifts, but i tend to stay off the throttle. She shifts good otherwise like when your foot is in it.

 

14 minutes ago, rogerash0 said:

Im not sure about testing ground cables for a vdrop test. I think I did read something akin to that somewhere, at some point. I have added a ground cable to the frame using a battery cable from a farm store. It goes from the passenger side battery to the frame. I did clean with a wire brush all grounds on the truck, carb clean em, and use diaeletric grease on everything. That was one of the very first things I did to the truck some years ago. Including the one underneath the drivers side battery tray. Including the two big connectors underneath the drivers side door by the frame. Including the connections by the bumper. Including adding a ground strap to the ECM and making sure the PCM has it's ground strap. Bed has its ground strap. I was testing for continuity & testing for low resistance to ground across surfaces like alternator body, engine, this ground to that ground, etc some time ago and concluded things looked good.

 

Sounds like I probably need to do what youre talking about. That and I havnt opened up the inside of the fuse box and completely gone through it to clean it out, from the inside out.

 

Both the ECM and PCM are directly grounded in the wiring harness to the passenger battery.  When my Drivers side ground cable started to fail it was causing my alternators to start putting out excessive AC voltage and created a list of Lock Up issues. 

Passenger was fine, but That is because I believe electricity is lazy, and finds the easiest path to ground. SO it was overcharging the passenger battery.

I did my vDrop test by setting my fluke meter to vDC and then hooking the red test lead to the grid heater grounds, and then black to the battery ground. drivers side was reading .17v drop, the passenger was .03v. Now you need to put a load on the cables, like starting the truck for example. Grid Heaters firing will also do the same. I choose the grid heater  ground because It was the cleanest metal I could find. and I also scratched it first with the needle. 

 

Here is the main article, I went from the engine to the batteries to test the grounds.

 

[rogerash0]

Funny, my drivers side ground was loose enough on the battery to wiggle around and pull off, so I did tighten that up so that it was tight tight. I wonder if that really was the cause for a lot of the fix. It was firm enough to stay on whilst driving for the last several months. There was a point there where I was taking them off so frequently I left them firmly on there enough to stay on, but able to be pulled off.

 

I dont quite follow how your getting a voltage (drop) testing from bat ground to grid heater ground, esp with the truck off. Tomorrow morning my grid heater will cycle on, we are calling for rain and snow @ 36*F by 8am says Accuweather.com. 

 

Reading your post twice or thrice, it seems like yours saying I should see a vDC load on the ground cables from the batt ground to grid heater ground, when the grid heaters are cycling on. So lets say I see that reading, then they turn off, what is my comparative voltage (delta) to measure the loss or difference?

 

To follow the article posted, I need a second person to start the truck as I use the fluke. I dont have that right now. The wifey will be back by the end of Feb.

 

Edit; Also I think I was seeing 1-2 shift and 2-3 shift around 1600 or 1800rpms under normal acceleration. I cant recall which it was. That's probably around 15-25% throttle, perhaps settle in the middle.

Edited October 8, 2017 by rogerash0

[Mopar1973Man]

2 minutes ago, rogerash0 said:

Tomorrow morning my grid heater will cycle on, we are calling for rain and snow @ 36*F by 8am says Accuweather.com. 

 

You might want to edit your profile to include your location at least City and State. I'm curious where you are at. Like here it suppose to rain tonight already down to 43*F.