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notlimah

Blown grid heater relay??

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IMG_5531.JPG.f78fe3035ace531dabce5ef5c570120f.JPGIMG_5532.JPG.307183556a66445a9e2dd1c31dd396a6.JPGIMG_5533.JPG.113aa1bcf1265d6847da797e9484c108.JPG

 

Yea, I think so lol

 

Not sure if it was a loose connection or what but I'll be ordering a new one. Sad part is this was replaced less then a year ago so unless it was really a loss connection (aka my fault) kinda sucks but I'll talk to Genos and see what they can work with me on. 

 

Theres no fuses I need to check right? 

 

Needless to say, check your connections often or use lock washers lol

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I really don't know. Other then standing there starring at it while it happened I'm not sure how to tell.

 

The nut and wire were loose when I finally found it, but I imagine that's partially due to all the missing plastic.

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Well one things for sure, my truck DOES NOT like chilly morning starts with no grids!! As far as starting she's fine, a slight hiccup, probably from getting nothing but cold air into a cold block, but boy does she smoke lol. 

 

I think I'll have to plug her in just to keep her happy, and my road smoke free hahaha.

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Contacts in the relay got poor and the resistance between the contact was high enough to create heat. This is one of the few reasons I unhook my grid heaters in April and hook them back up in October. There is zero reason to have the grid heater cycling on morning start. I know my truck REQUIRES grid heater at temperatures below +25*F. Above that, it's totally optional.

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15 hours ago, notlimah said:

IMG_5531.JPG.f78fe3035ace531dabce5ef5c570120f.JPG

 

Sad part is this was replaced less then a year ago so unless it was really a loss connection ... 

 

 

If you still have the parts, you may be able to do a close inspection and figure out whether you had a loose wire connection, or the contactor failed internally..  When inspecting the wire connection (after the damage has occurred) look at the copper eyelet, the two nuts, and the stud for extreme discoloration.  Then make the same inspection where the contactor connects with the post.  Whichever location shows the most evidence of an extreme heat source would likely be the problem area. 

 

Not an absolute method of troubleshooting, but usually the source of the problem can be detected. 

 

- John

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4 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Contacts in the relay got poor and the resistance between the contact was high enough to create heat. This is one of the few reasons I unhook my grid heaters in April and hook them back up in October. There is zero reason to have the grid heater cycling on morning start. I know my truck REQUIRES grid heater at temperatures below +25*F. Above that, it's totally optional.

 

I know that's what the book calls for but I think each truck is different too. Mine clearly does not like it when it's been sitting overnight in 40* weather, and gets fired up without grids. Never smokes any other time and it's only during the colder weather. Also doesn't do it as bad when the grids were working so definitely leaning towards that being the issue.

 

2 hours ago, Tractorman said:

 

If you still have the parts, you may be able to do a close inspection and figure out whether you had a loose wire connection, or the contactor failed internally..  When inspecting the wire connection (after the damage has occurred) look at the copper eyelet, the two nuts, and the stud for extreme discoloration.  Then make the same inspection where the contactor connects with the post.  Whichever location shows the most evidence of an extreme heat source would likely be the problem area. 

 

Not an absolute method of troubleshooting, but usually the source of the problem can be detected. 

 

- John

 

Thanks for the advice, I'll look it over to see if I can find anything that stands out but it was pretty charred up all the way around. The one wire was fairly loose, but again, hard to tell if that was because of the thing burnin up or not. Either way, I'm going to use lock washers to hopefully prevent anything from coming loose and like @CTcummins24V said, probably look at going with OEM this time around to see if I have better luck.

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2 hours ago, notlimah said:

Mine clearly does not like it when it's been sitting overnight in 40* weather, and gets fired up without grids.

 

Either it's going to be my compression is stronger or my injectors are giving better atomization. 

 

2 hours ago, notlimah said:

Also doesn't do it as bad when the grids were working so definitely leaning towards that being the issue.

 

Hua? These two quotes would have me checking a few things. Between compression and fuel atomization I would be looking a bit being 40*F is nothing for a Cummins to fire up without grid heat. Last winter I was starting at -35*F without a block heater and just two cycles of the grid heater. No issues.  

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Mine still fires off at 20* no problem without the grids. A little extra smoke but not much. I spent last winter in TN and going to spend this winter in MD. We will see what happens here. Last winter on really cold nights, 20 or below I plugged it in on timer. Had it come an hour or hour in and half before I left. Never an issue and the heater warmed up pretty darn quick. Like that a lot better than the grids. JMHO.

 And in the FWIW column, I disconnected mine 2 years ago. Of course it is not as cold as it gets out your way.

Edited by dripley

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Cool!

 

On 10/10/2017 at 7:53 PM, notlimah said:

Theres no fuses I need to check right? 

 

No fuses, but there is a fusible link. Which is a fancy way of saying "under sized wire that will vaporize in the event of a short circuit".

 

I messed up the insulators on the lugs that bolt the power wires to the grid heater once. Blew the fusible link. Sounded like a gunshot and smoke came out the driver's side of the hood. I was pretty concerned for about 20 seconds, and then I realized what happened and laughed my *** off.

Edited by kzimmer

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3 minutes ago, kzimmer said:

No fuses, but there is a fusible link. Which is a fancy way of saying "under sized wire that will vaporize in the event of a short circuit".

1

 

A mechanical fusible link is a device consisting of two strips of metal soldered together with a fusible alloy that is designed to melt at a specific temperature, thus allowing the two pieces to separate.

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9 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

A mechanical fusible link is a device consisting of two strips of metal soldered together with a fusible alloy that is designed to melt at a specific temperature, thus allowing the two pieces to separate.

 

I'm 90% sure the fusible link for our heater grids is pure copper. Not two alloys. AKA an under sized wire that will vaporize in the event of a short circuit, just like I said. The only thing that's special is the insulation, which is designed to stay (somewhat) intact and suppress sparks. Ask me how I know.

 

Here's an example manufacturer.

 

http://www.awcwire.com/productspec.aspx?id=fusible-link-wire

 

I do see how Google points to that definition though. Maybe different types for different uses.

 

Screenshot_20171011-210847.png

Edited by kzimmer
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4 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Either it's going to be my compression is stronger or my injectors are giving better atomization. 

 

 

Hua? These two quotes would have me checking a few things. Between compression and fuel atomization I would be looking a bit being 40*F is nothing for a Cummins to fire up without grid heat. Last winter I was starting at -35*F without a block heater and just two cycles of the grid heater. No issues.  

 

I wouldn't be surprised if its my injectors. Currently stock with close to 180k. Any reason compression would be low? 

 

Just to clarify, the truck starts fine. It just smokes like a train when it's colder, not plugged in and grids aren't working.

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11 hours ago, notlimah said:

Any reason compression would be low?

 

Valve lash incorrect.

Leaking head gasket (Between cylinders or outwards).

Leaking injector copper washer.

Improper injector installation.

Cracked head.

Cracked piston(s).

Piston rings washed out from leaking injectors.

 

11 hours ago, notlimah said:

Currently stock with close to 180k

 

Injectors are on there last leg... I'm finding out that every 100k miles are good time to just consider replacing injectors. You can go past that but injector quality degrades and pop pressure starts to fall so the atomization starts to fail. 

Edited by Mopar1973Man

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I think I agree with ya on the injectors. I have no reason to suspect it's due to a cracked head gasket, piston or block, but my injectors have to be tired, which in turn means the washers are too. Valve lash is something I always want to verify but haven't been able to justify going through that without just doing injectors as well. New injectors are in the ear future that's for sure.

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