No name

[dripley]

3 hours ago, jlbayes said:

Crown performance makes a kit for the disc/disc trucks.

I looked at their site and all I saw was for 03 to 11 trucks. Is that what you used? 

[Dieselfuture]

3 hours ago, jlbayes said:

You do one stud at a time so as to not lose your clamp load on the gasket.

I'm guessing sequence is not important, meaning you don't have to go inside out in circular pattern on head studs. Just start at one end and work your way to the other? I can see it being important only on the initial head gasket install, not when doing one stud at a time.

[Texas CTD]

I'm don't want to rain on Jacob's parade or cause conflict by posting another opinion, but I'm sure he'd be fine with the procedure I'm about to post as well.

This is from Josh (jmd025) on Cummins Forum... I'm currently in the middle of this procedure on my 12V.

 

""Assuming a new gasket:

Verify head and deck flatness and straightness are within spec

clean sealing surfaces with razor

Using WD40 and Wet sanding paper , and a sanding block the width of the head/deck start at 100 grit very lightly, then 600 grit, then 1500 grit polishing both sealing surfaces evenly

Clean up sealing surfaces and mess from wetsanding. (obviously oil and water in the block with need flushing) Also blow clean all stud holes.

Ill try to only use the New Cummins gaskets with the additional reinforcement tabs and set the gasket and head very gently with a engine lift to avoid any shearing movements between the head and gasket.


Install head studs. there is a lot of ideas about bottom tapping, and screwing the stud back up a partial turn from the bottom of the hole, i personally just didnt let the stud bottom out. ARP lube top threads. ARP lube washer flats, APR lube Nut flats.

Torque in Cummins pattern in equal steps up to your final torque, taking a break between each torque step to allow studs to cool back to room temp (if you've never done this, they get hot while torquing them down).

Once final torque is achieved (hopefully manufacturer specs, there is really nothing to gain IMO by exceeding them, in some cases it is actually detrimental to clamping force due to stretching the fasterner outside of its working range), button everything up and fill block with water ( i fill through a heater hose held as high as possible ) and Plug in block heater over night. Disconnect the Block heater in the morning and let the engine go back to stone cold.

One at a time , in Cummins sequence, loosen a nut/washer off a stud, RELUBE, and torque back up to final torque in one smooth sweep. Continue until all 26 are retorqued. Plug in block heater over night. Disconnect block heater in the morning and let engine go back to stone cold.

One at a time , in Cummins sequence, loosen a nut/washer off a stud, RELUBE, and torque back up to final torque in one smooth sweep. Continue until all 26 are retorqued.

change the fluids and drive the truck.

Hopefully if you do this you understand how to use a torque wrench and hopefully understand what fasterner "break away " torque is, and why you cant set your torque wrench to 125 ft lbs and "check to see if they are still torqued" by clicking the wrench on the nut. Hopefully

Just my .02 , gathered from convos with engine builders i trust""

 

^^^^ I bookmarked that 4 years ago, and thought to myself, "I'm gonna need that one day." And sure enough...

Edited May 4, 2018 by Texas CTD

[dripley]

16 minutes ago, Texas CTD said:

Hopefully if you do this you understand how to use a torque wrench and hopefully understand what fasterner "break away " torque is, and why you cant set your torque wrench to 125 ft lbs and "check to see if they are still torqued" by clicking the wrench on the nut. Hopefully

So if I set my torque wrench to 125 ft lbs what can I expect?

[Texas CTD]

1 hour ago, dripley said:

So if I set my torque wrench to 125 ft lbs what can I expect?

 

If you have a fastener hand tight, and you set you're torque wrench to 125 ft/lbs, and you sweep up til it clicks in one motion, with proper lube and a properly calibrated torque wrench, you're at 125 ft/lbs.

 

If you have a fastener torqued to 125 ft/lbs, and you want to "re-torque" the way of the interwebz, you set your torque wrench to 125 ft/lbs and click it. Unless a fastener has lost considerable pre-load due to heat/cool cycles, it won't move, and your torque wrench will click... It takes more than 125 ft/lbs of torque to get that already tight fastener moving, due to static friction, so actual pre-load on that fastener is lower than what your wrench just told you.

 

By removing the nut and washer to re-torque a head stud, you lose the static friction, and lube the snot out of it to minimize kinetic friction during the re-torque to be as accurate as possible.

 

May not be the best scientific explanation, but that's what I have experienced messing around with torque wrenches a little.

 

Jacob might say otherwise. lol

[notlimah]

[dripley]

Thanks for all the info. My education continues.

[jlbayes]

19 hours ago, rogerash0 said:

Any advantage to 14mm studs and do all blocks need machine work to run em?

 

None in 98% of applications. Yes as stock they are only 12mm.

 

18 hours ago, dripley said:

I looked at their site and all I saw was for 03 to 11 trucks. Is that what you used? 

 

Yes.  I called and spoke with them so they had an idea of what I was doing (axle swap). He questioned me at first but then understood I was aware they may not work. However they worked great. Just had to shorten my hard lines on the rear axle.

 

18 hours ago, Dieselfuture said:

I'm guessing sequence is not important, meaning you don't have to go inside out in circular pattern on head studs. Just start at one end and work your way to the other? I can see it being important only on the initial head gasket install, not when doing one stud at a time.

 

Correct. As the gasket is already compressed/seated/bedded. I start at the back as it is the worst to do lol.

 

15 hours ago, Texas CTD said:

I'm don't want to rain on Jacob's parade or cause conflict by posting another opinion, but I'm sure he'd be fine with the procedure I'm about to post as well.

This is from Josh (jmd025) on Cummins Forum...

 

I modified mine a bit from Josh's process. 

 

15 hours ago, dripley said:

So if I set my torque wrench to 125 ft lbs what can I expect?

 

It will just click with minimal to no movement.

 

13 hours ago, Texas CTD said:

 

If you have a fastener hand tight, and you set you're torque wrench to 125 ft/lbs, and you sweep up til it clicks in one motion, with proper lube and a properly calibrated torque wrench, you're at 125 ft/lbs.

 

If you have a fastener torqued to 125 ft/lbs, and you want to "re-torque" the way of the interwebz, you set your torque wrench to 125 ft/lbs and click it. Unless a fastener has lost considerable pre-load due to heat/cool cycles, it won't move, and your torque wrench will click... It takes more than 125 ft/lbs of torque to get that already tight fastener moving, due to static friction, so actual pre-load on that fastener is lower than what your wrench just told you.

 

By removing the nut and washer to re-torque a head stud, you lose the static friction, and lube the snot out of it to minimize kinetic friction during the re-torque to be as accurate as possible.

 

May not be the best scientific explanation, but that's what I have experienced messing around with torque wrenches a little.

 

Jacob might say otherwise. lol

 

No objections, very correct. You do not want to try and use breakaway torque as an accurate measurement on any fastener.  Unless you are trying to measure it lol.

Edited May 4, 2018 by jlbayes

[notlimah]

Any different techniques or procedures for the 24v?

[jlbayes]

None. I use the same process.

[Dieselfuture]

Had a question on studs. If you reuse studs do you still need to retorque them, or are you not supposed to be using studs. Or is the retorque more for the head gasket and not for stretching a stud. Reason I'm asking is on my truck I have A1H11 studs from PO, I reused them and the read online that they don't require retorque. I wasn't sure what to torque them down to so I went to 135. One thing I did do is after everything was torqued down to specs to final torque, I went through the sequence and loosened up each one relubed it and retorque right back down to final 135. I've done this before on other vehicles and never had a problem but just want to get your expertise opinion. 

[trreed]

If you reuse studs and torqued them correctly the first time, there is no need for a retorque, as the stretch is already out.