Hard start after grid heaters disconnect

[Tractorman]

4 hours ago, Dieselfuture said:

Could you remind me again if you spliced in ground wires for relays triggers or disconnected them on the body somewhere

 

I just realized that I gave the incorrect information in the above post. As of 7:25 pm I have corrected that post.  I should have said that I installed a switch that supplies 12 volts to the control relays for the air intake manifold heater solenoids (I erroneously said that the switch grounds the air intake manifold heater solenoids).

 

Below, you will see the text I copied from a post that I did several months back.  I did not have to splice any wiring..

 

"Find the two relays that control the intake heaters.  They are located just below the driver's side battery and power distribution center.  You will see the two relays side by side, each with two small gauge wires and push-on connectors.  One wire on each relay comes from the ECM (12 volts when commanded) and the other wire on each relay goes to ground.  Remove the two wires from the ECM side of the relay and protect them from the elements (the wires will no longer be needed).  The wire colors (according to the diagram) are orange with a black tracer and yellow with a black tracer.  Sometimes colors differ slightly.

 

From an un-switched 12 volt source add a fuse, a momentary switch (your choice of location), and enough light gauge wiring to complete the job. The wiring and the switch will only need to handle less than 150 milliamps of current.  Coming from your switch, connect to each exposed terminal of each intake heater relay  The terminal posts are threaded, so you will need to provide a nut with the proper thread pitch for a secure connection."

 

Good luck with the project,

 

- John

Edited April 14, 2018 by Tractorman
updated correction

[Mopar1973Man]

WTS light is based on two sensors. IAT sensor and Battery Temperature sensor. So if the temperature is below about 60-65*F it will trip a single element grid heater regardless of being hooked up to the battery or not. So the WTS light should reflect the normal grid heater operation but you won't see the heavy voltage drop.

[Alexio Auditore]

I just reconnected the grid heaters. It's just a night and day difference for starting. Smokes like a locomotive when not connected for about 30 seconds, barely a haze when when it is connected. 

[dave110]

On 4/13/2018 at 6:05 PM, Dieselfuture said:

Could you remind me again if you spliced in ground wires for relays triggers or disconnected them on the body somewhere

Just food for thought. Tractorman switched the + relay triggers wires while I switched the -. Relay needs ground and hot to work. I chose to switch the grounds therefore leaving everything hooked up the way it is OEM except for the switch. And the switch is spliced in between.

Edited April 17, 2018 by dave110

[Mopar1973Man]

I know it will trip codes. As long as it doesn't trip the CEL light. It will work. 

[Tractorman]

16 hours ago, dave110 said:

Just food for thought. Tractorman switched the + relay triggers wires

 

Here's an idea.  If you want to fool the computer (like Mopar1973man likes to do - you know, the IAT fooler), you could measure the resistance of each intake manifold heater coil and then wire in a resistor of that value from each trigger wire to ground.  That might stop a code from being set.

 

For me, I don't mind the set codes.

 

- John

[Dieselfuture]

Either I missed the answer to my question order has never been answered fully. If I put a toggle switch to toggle negative side of trigger wires for relays, do I splice in somewhere near the relays or do I follow small ground wires to a body someplace and toggle at that terminal, which is what I kind of want to do instead of splicing wires.

[dave110]

2 hours ago, Dieselfuture said:

Either I missed the answer to my question order has never been answered fully. If I put a toggle switch to toggle negative side of trigger wires for relays, do I splice in somewhere near the relays or do I follow small ground wires to a body someplace and toggle at that terminal, which is what I kind of want to do instead of splicing wires.

 I cut the wires leaving the special nice connector on the relay studs, butt connector and shrink tubed a wire of the same size to it, ran the wire to a toggle inside the cab, and back out to the other end of the wire that I cut and butt connector with shrink tube to it. I don't know if the original grounds ground through an ECM ground or if they are grounded to an external ground screw. Wire schematic might show that but for me it was easier to splice than to chase that down. After all, 89% of us are running around with the VP44 pump wire spliced in one way shape or form. Even the stealth cover needs a wire with a ring terminal spliced to it.

 

6 hours ago, Tractorman said:

 

Here's an idea.  If you want to fool the computer (like Mopar1973man likes to do - you know, the IAT fooler), you could measure the resistance of each intake manifold heater coil and then wire in a resistor of that value from each trigger wire to ground.  That might stop a code from being set.

 

For me, I don't mind the set codes.

 

- John

Or run a second set of $75 relays between the battery and the original leads. Make that the 'manual' set that you control. The ECM would still see the OEM set and think it was in control of them and be happy. If the codes bothered me I would rather go that route for simplicity but the codes mean squat to me. I know they are there and what they mean.

[Royal Squire]

Wouldn’t it work to put a toggle actuated solenoid between battery and relays. I’m kinda electrically challenged but was curious if this would work. 

[dave110]

Yep. Same theory. I considered this but the cost of a solenoid that size gets kind of pricey. Plus to do it right you should have 2 , 1 for each relay.  There's 2 grids. When I saw the $75 E-Bay relays it just seemed like a better route to go.

[Tractorman]

6 hours ago, Dieselfuture said:

Either I missed the answer to my question order has never been answered fully. If I put a toggle switch to toggle negative side of trigger wires for relays, do I splice in somewhere near the relays or do I follow small ground wires to a body someplace and toggle at that terminal, which is what I kind of want to do instead of splicing wires.

 

The question has been answered.  Whether you toggle the positive side or the negative side of the relays, you do not have to splice into any existing wires.  In your case, disconnect the wire on the negative post of each relay and protect the wires from the elements as they will no longer be used.  Then make a new wire (18 gauge is fine) that connects to both relay negative posts and run the new wire into the cab to  your switch and then to a ground.

 

If you use  a maintained switch, when it is switched off (open), the grid heaters will never operate and two codes will be set.  When it is switched on (closed), the grid heaters will operate normally.

 

I chose to toggle the positive side of the relays with a momentary switch because I wanted to be the boss.  I can choose when and how long to run the grid heaters.  I think there is something in the Constitution about this freedom.

 

I can also load test each battery independently by turning on the grid heaters for 15 seconds at a time and monitoring battery voltage during the test.  Nothing like a built-in tool.

 

- John

Edited April 19, 2018 by Tractorman
content

[dave110]

Only thing I don't like about that is if you're forgetful like me and leave the switch on.............well you get the idea. That's why I spliced into mine. When I turn them off they are off no matter what, but when they are on the ECM  will operate them normally and turn them off when I forget. My forgetter is getting better .

 

Come to think of it I think you said you use a momentary switch would will also protect you in the event you forget.

[Dieselfuture]

Haaaa, it's so easy I was in full retard mode trying to find where relay trigger grounds went. And all I need is ground a heavy wire that can support both relays coils then got to switch then to relays. Thanks for clarification @Tractorman once again. I tend to over think a lot and give myself a headache. 

[Tractorman]

12 hours ago, Dieselfuture said:

And all I need is ground a heavy wire that can support both relays coils then got to switch then to relays.

 

You are getting closer.  You do not need a heavy wire.  Each relay consists of an internal coil and a switch.  When the coil is energized it operates the switch.  The coil only draws about one-sixth of an amp or about 150 milliamps, so light gauge wire is fine.  The internal switch handles the load - about 100 amps for each grid heater.  You are not tapping into the switch part, so no need for heavy wire.

 

Note the wire sizes in the wiring diagram for the relay coils (18 gauge).  Note the wire sizes for the relay switches (6 gauge).  Also, the wires that leave the bottom of the page go to ground - not enough room to show it.

 

Please let me know if I can make this more confusing.

 

- John

Edited April 19, 2018 by Tractorman
more info

[Alexio Auditore]

Didnt want to start a new thread, but I do have a question in regard to the grid heater. Soon the cold will be back and I don't have the ability to plug my truck in where I live. There are 2 grid heaters right? Can i just have one turned on? Less load on the alternator right?

[Dieselfuture]

Just now, Alexio Auditore said:

Didnt want to start a new thread, but I do have a question in regard to the grid heater. Soon the cold will be back and I don't have the ability to plug my truck in where I live. There are 2 grid heaters right? Can i just have one turned on? Less load on the alternator right?

I don't see why not, just unplug one of the relays trigger wires, but I think one of them is higher amps then the other. You'll still have a code set.

[Mopar1973Man]

Might want to PM @IBMobile he's got an idea on grid heater control switch without tossing errors and allowed you to control of your grid heater.