47re built transmission NO OD

[Dustin24v]

This is my first post so I'll try to get everything out on the table.

 

Let me start by saying I have done all of the work on my truck 1998.5 24v dodge 2500. My current mods in my signature are up to date as of today. So first mods into the transmission which is the 47RE included a BD Stage 3 build kit following a goerend triple disk. I drove it that way for a little over 3 months. Money came around now I just recently purchased the ranging pressure valve body from goerend. Still running stock flexplate and shafts(I know not a good thing to do). After installing the new VB everything was fine for all of about 2 days. On the 3rd day is when the problems started.

 

At this point my truck shifts nice and firm and shifts when it is supposed to. Just no more OD, after I hit 55 lock up engages.. I've gone through and made sure the VB valves weren't stuck. I checked the 3-4 spring and piston no fractures or binding. I have changed my od/lu solenoid and the wiring in the VB for a KNOWN good one. Following that I purchased a new timbos tps as I have had p0222 for a while and after doing moparman's test I found mine was bad. Still no OD. I have not check pressure in the od unit yet... plan to next weekend. 

 

After troubles fixing it my self tried troubleshooting with Bob at goerend, he suggested to run a jumper wire and bulb probe from pin 6 on transmission harness and hook a ground to the cig lighter. He said the bulb should be lit from gears 1-3 and shut off when od is supposed to engage. Tried it. Light never turned on, HOWEVER when I did ground out pin 6 in the cab it made my truck seem to get stuck in low gear or lockup... couldn't tell at 10mph.  Waiting for a response from Bob with my findings.  

 

I have gone through and cleaned and test every ground I can find. Running out of forums to scour for new tests. Any advice?  

[015point9]

Dynamic trans not far from you if it turns out you need a trans guy.  One of the venders listed on here somewhere.  Spokane valley exit but make left.  Been trying 2 years to get over there so he can do mine.

Edited June 17, 2018 by 015point9

[notlimah]

Your best best is to keep troubleshooting with Goerend. It’s their valve body and their product. I’d give them a chance to set things right. The more you mess with it outside of their advice now, the bigger chance or further complicating things are. 

 

Unless @Dynamic has some insight on something, that’d be my advice.

 

ninja edit: yea if you’re in Spokane, give Jon aka @Dynamic a call, he’s in Newman Lake, he’s built mine and several other members transmission and is a pleasure to work with.

Edited June 17, 2018 by notlimah

[Dustin24v]

I may end up taking it to the shop at some point. But I would like to see if I could fix it for the cost of parts instead of labor... Any suggestions for things to test?

[Silverdodge]

Run electrical side of od to a toggle like a lock up switch

[IBMobile]

Here are the wire diagrams for the transmission

[Dynamic]

I would recommend the test that Bob Georend described, but use a Digital Multimeter to perform the test instead of a bulb. A bulb requires too much current to illuminate. A multimeter requires virtually no current to register a reading.

 

Place the positive lead of the meter on the brown wire (terminal 6 at the transmission connector - refer to the wiring diagram posted above), and the negative lead to a good ground. Make sure that the circuit is active (you're backprobing at this point). You should see battery voltage on that circuit until OD is commanded on, at which point you will see the voltage drop to near zero as the PCM provides a ground for the solenoid.

[Dustin24v]

So I just got done doing the multi meter test, I probed near the pcm and at the tranmission runs approx. 13.50 then drops to .2 when I hit conditions for overdrive. I disassembled the overdrive section in the valve body smooth bores no build up everything where it should be.

 

Changed sensors again no issues. Looks like next step is looking like a od rebukld. My guess is with the increased pressures I blew the od piston seal... any thoughts?

[Dynamic]

So the PCM is commanding a shift to OD, and the solenoid is indeed getting that signal. That pretty much eliminates everything outside of the transmission. It sounds like you've pretty well exonerated the valve body, so I'd look at the clutch next.

 

It's not very likely to blow an OD piston seal because of pressure. They'll put up with a ton. If you have a blown seal, it's generally due to a failed clutch allowing the piston to over-travel, causing the seal to come out of the bore and then get destroyed when the large spring in the OD shoves the piston back into its bore once the apply pressure goes away.

[Dustin24v]

Oh I see I'll have to check clearances again when I do the rebuild again. I must have done it incorrectly the first time, i just rebuilt the whole trans about 4 months ago. Do sell just the OD rebuild kits?

[Dynamic]

I don't sell rebuild "kits" for just the OD, but I can get you whatever individual parts you may need.

[Dustin24v]

@DynamicOh alright. Would I be able to drop by your shop on Wednesday to get all clutches, seals and gaskets? Also compressing that spring is a PIA, do you have a press for the od spring that I could use for a charge? 

Edited June 22, 2018 by Dustin24v

[Dynamic]

Let me know what you need, and I can make sure I have it here. With two large transmission warehouses within 20 minutes of here, I don't keep a very large inventory here at the shop. Do you just want to replace the soft parts inside the OD?

 

I can't let you use my press, but I can do it for you for cheap.

[Dustin24v]

I'll pull my OD this weekend Saturday and let you know. I'm thinking I might need clutches too as my fluid was pretty dark last to changes while trying to resolve the problem. 

[Dustin24v]

So I pulled the od and transfer and od piston. Piston seal blew out. Also burnt up the clutches. The seal only had a 1/4 notch cut out so I assume that reduced the od clamping power due to the reduced pressure going to the od unit. 

 

@Dynamic so that definitely confirms my need for clutches as well as seals. So i will definitely stop by on Wednesday to get the parts for the od and get the truck back up and running same day.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Dustin24v

[Dynamic]

Other way around... The clutch burned up, allowing the piston to over-travel. Once the piston travels far enough, the outer piston seal pops out of its bore, allowing apply pressure to be exhausted. Once apply pressure is gone, the big spring in the OD shoves the piston back into the bore, destroying the seal in the process.

 

Shoot me a list of what you need, and I'll make sure everything is here.

[Dustin24v]

@Dynamic ah I see. That makes more sense.  So without being able to compress the od spring I'm just going to make the assumption those clutches might be burnt too. So parts list as follows: 

 

Friction OD BW 6 pieces 

Friction OD direct BW 10 pieces

BW- Borg warner. Unless raybestos is just as good. What are your thoughts?

 

STEEL OD BRAKE 6 PIECES 

STEEL OD DIRECT. .525 INCH 9 PIECES

OVERDRIVE CLUTCH APPLY PISTON INNER AND OUTER LIP SEAL

Rear bearing snap ring gasket... I may end up just using rtv for gaskets.  

---

I think the sun gear should be fine and same with the roller clutch assembly. Bearings seemed fine as well.

 

 

Last I may need a overdrive/direct clutch press plate just in case mine warped. Hard to tell without being able to open it up...  I think that is all I will need. Was looking through the atsg manual and didn't see anything else.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Dustin24v

[Dynamic]

Borg and Raybestos are pretty much interchangeable, depending upon which ones are available. I would definitely recommend the Raybestos GPZ's for the OD brake, though.

 

No RTV for gaskets... The two gaskets you need will cost less than a tube of RTV.

[Mopar1973Man]

3 minutes ago, Dynamic said:

No RTV for gaskets... The two gaskets you need will cost less than a tube of RTV.

 

Something to point out. Most all the assembly on these truck are put to together without any sealant. If you took it apart and there was no sealant then you put it back together without sealant. Do not add sealant to parts because you think you should. 

[Dustin24v]

Thanks for the info, I'll keep that in mind as I've probably done it a couple times just because I forget sometimes if there was a gasket or not. 

 

As far as frictions I'll take your recommendations, as the borgwarner didn't hold up to well, I suspect due to adding a triple disk without the extra line pressure from the stock vb I had. 

 

The goerend vb has the truck shifting firm now though. Hopefully the od will last this time around.