2001 Cummins has HickUps Engine Quits then Runs (P1689 code solved)

[int3man]

So this started just after I got the truck home.  I moved from one driveway to an other and the engine stopped.  Restarted moved and stopped.  Then ran fine.  Week later and 1,000 miles into my get to know each other trip and the truck starts hick upping on the freeway going through Portland after 3 hours of driving.  Did it for 7 - 8 times, not in conjunction of the bumps in the road or anything. 

 

So we are a week later and it starts hic-cuping on the way to Ace.  Engine just dies then runs again.  17 PSI on the FASS to the VP.  No Water in the Water Trap.  Does it for 8-10 times.  Just like you bumped the switch off then on again.  I've seen things about data logging the edge is still connected, does it have an data logging capacity?  I'm pulling it off this weekend so that I can get it smogged next week.

 

Checked Codes and

P0521

P1693

P1765

P0622

 

Thanks Guys

Michael

Edited August 31, 2018 by int3man
Added Codes

[Marcus2000monster]

First off disconnect the edge tuner. Then don’t ever mention the word Cummings again. Lol just kidding. Have you scanned for codes?

[int3man]

35 minutes ago, Marcus2000monster said:

First off disconnect the edge tuner. Then don’t ever mention the word Cummings again. Lol just kidding. Have you scanned for codes?

Yes sir was Scanning as you read. Listed above.

Coughed twice then we did a couple of nice power runs up to 80.  This thing feels like a 13 second ride down the 1/4 mile.  :- )  When it Runs I'm HAPPY!!!!

[Mopar1973Man]

 

Edited August 31, 2018 by Mopar1973Man

[int3man]

O.K.  Well the Oil Pressure makes sense as the Oil Pressure gauge works intermittently at best.  I purchased an external one. And that scared the dash gauge to work but now it is intermittent at best.  So what could cause all this at once.  Or are these the results of the engine stopping, while the key is turned on?

 

Thanks

Michael

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Possible the 5V circuit could be having issues from oil pressure sensor causing other issues from it.

[int3man]

Thanks that is what I was looking for, which is cause and what was Effect.

 

Looks like the orange wires for the MAP Sensor and Oil Pressure Split off?  Anyone know for sure?

 

Thanks

Michael

[Mopar1973Man]

[int3man]

18 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Thanks Mike I had the Schematic from you earlier.  I see where it says it is by the Oil Pressure Switch.  I'll lay on the Motor tomorrow morning and dissect that part of the harness.

If it looses MAP Sensor I'll bet that it has some heartburn.

Michael

Edited September 1, 2018 by int3man

[Mopar1973Man]

I remember where another member mention that oil pressure sensor had effect on MAP sensor. I'm not sure who it was but we can hope he sees this and responds.

[int3man]

Just now, Mopar1973Man said:

I remember where another member mention that oil pressure sensor had effect on MAP sensor. I'm not sure who it was but we can hope he sees this and responds.

Yes I read that last week.  He replaced the MAP Sensor and the intermittent oil pressure gauge suddenly worked.  I order a MAP Sensor, it showed up.  I'll throw it at the problem first.  Either way I have to lay across the top!

33 minutes ago, int3man said:

Yes I read that last week.  He replaced the MAP Sensor and the intermittent oil pressure gauge suddenly worked.  I order a MAP Sensor, it showed up.  I'll throw it at the problem first.  Either way I have to lay across the top!

So I fed it a MAP Sensor off eBay no difference.  I did notice that the EDGE plug that plugged in there was missing the rubber gasket and that the factory plug had the Locking Tab Broken off.  Are those Deutsch Metric Paks?

 

The connections in the old MAP Sensor are Dirty!

 

Thanks!  Looks like the easiest way to get to the oil pressure and MAP wiring harness is to remove the Starter.

Michael

[Guest 04Mach1]

MAP, CMP, and oil pressure sensor all share the 5 volt supply. I've had instances before on the big 15 liter Cummins engines of an active fault code caused by another sensor sharing a power or ground with other sensors. For instance an active oil pressure sensor fault caused by a shorted oil temp sensor sharing the same power or ground circuit and there was not even a logged or active fault for the oil temp sensor.

 

If your truck was in my shop I would replace the oil pressure sensor. If still having issues I would then remove the entire sensor harness from the engine and lay it out on the table. I would then strip the loom from the harness looking for rubbed or broken wires and bent, dirty, spread pins. I would then test every wire for continuity from pin to pin making sure there are no broken, crossed, or shorted circuits. After I was satisfied that the harness is 100% good I would re-loom it and reinstall it. If the problem persisted depending on the data of my Snap-on Verus scanner I would either replace the CMP and possibly the MAP sensor with NAPA / OEM Mopar / Cummins sensors or send the ECM in for testing and possibly repair if needed. 

[int3man]

9 minutes ago, 04Mach1 said:

MAP, CMP, and oil pressure sensor all share the 5 volt supply. I've had instances before on the big 15 liter Cummins engines of an active fault code caused by another sensor sharing a power or ground with other sensors. For instance an active oil pressure sensor fault caused by a shorted oil temp sensor sharing the same power or ground circuit and there was not even a logged or active fault for the oil temp sensor.

 

If your truck was in my shop I would replace the oil pressure sensor. If still having issues I would then remove the entire sensor harness from the engine and lay it out on the table. I would then strip the loom from the harness looking for rubbed or broken wires and bent, dirty, spread pins. I would then test every wire for continuity from pin to pin making sure there are no broken, crossed, or shorted circuits. After I was satisfied that the harness is 100% good I would re-loom it and reinstall it. If the problem persisted depending on the data of my Snap-on Verus scanner I would either replace the CMP and possibly the MAP sensor with NAPA / OEM Mopar / Cummins sensors or send the ECM in for testing and possibly repair if needed. 

O.K.  I've replaced the Oil pressure Sending unit and the MAP Sensor.  So the Senors are on a separate loom?  Looked like it was part of the loom by the starter.  Sorry I didn't know to only buy OEM Sending units.  NAPA are acceptable?  

 

The oil pressure gauge wasn't working until I installed a separate gauge, then it felt challenged and works intermittently now.  So I suspect the wiring. 

 

What are the connectors for these sensors?  Deutsch MetraPak?  Missing the rubber gasket to the MAP Sensor and the Locking tab is missing on the truck loom side.  Looking for replacements.

 

Thanks

Michael

Edited September 1, 2018 by int3man

[Guest 04Mach1]

1 minute ago, int3man said:

O.K.  I've replaced the Oil pressure Sending unit and the MAP Sensor.  So the Senors are on a separate loom?  Looked like it was part of the loom by the starter.  Sorry I didn't know to only buy OEM Sending units.  NAPA are acceptable?  

 

The oil pressure gauge wasn't working until I installed a separate gauge, then it felt challenged and works intermittently now.  So I suspect the wiring.  

Napa and Cummins is pretty much all I trust for sensors. If you buy Mopar all you're getting is Cummins parts in a relabled box at a higher cost than Cummins. I've had issues with other brands from AutoZone, eBay, and O'Reilly's. The ECM has two plugs. One is the OEM harness (rear plug) which provides power and communication inputs and outputs from the Chrysler side. The other plug is the sensor harness (front plug) which connects all the engine sensors to the ECM. The schematic that @Mopar1973Man posted is mostly the sensor harness from the looks of it.

 

Our VP44 trucks essentially use a Cummins CM550 ECM with Chrysler tweaks to make it impossible to use an actual Cummins ECM or actual Cummins tuning.

[Dieselfuture]

2 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

I remember where another member mention that oil pressure sensor had effect on MAP sensor. I'm not sure who it was but we can hope he sees this and responds.

That would be @Me78569 and I did it just to be safe when I was hunting intermittent issue that I think ended up being alternator. 

[dripley]

43 minutes ago, 04Mach1 said:

MAP, CMP, and oil pressure sensor all share the 5 volt supply.

My 02 has the MAP on its own 5v from the ECM. The wiring diagram for 2002 shows the oil pressure sender/switch on the same supply but its not the case in my spare harness. Matter of fact my oil pressure connector only has one wire going to it. Not sure how that works.

[int3man]

23 minutes ago, 04Mach1 said:

Napa and Cummins is pretty much all I trust for sensors. If you buy Mopar all you're getting is Cummins parts in a relabled box at a higher cost than Cummins. I've had issues with other brands from AutoZone, eBay, and O'Reilly's. The ECM has two plugs. One is the OEM harness (rear plug) which provides power and communication inputs and outputs from the Chrysler side. The other plug is the sensor harness (front plug) which connects all the engine sensors to the ECM. The schematic that @Mopar1973Man posted is mostly the sensor harness from the looks of it.

 

Our VP44 trucks essentially use a Cummins CM550 ECM with Chrysler tweaks to make it impossible to use an actual Cummins ECM or actual Cummins tuning.

Well Now I wish that I had not thrown away the Oil Pressure sending sensor.  Especially that NAPA is getting $200 and change for one.  And now that the Oil Pressure Gauge is working intermittently.  The good news is that it is working intermittently with new sensor.  Thanks I'll pull the loom and have a conversation with it this weekend. 

 

Thanks

Michael

Edited September 1, 2018 by int3man

[int3man]

10 hours ago, dripley said:

My 02 has the MAP on its own 5v from the ECM. The wiring diagram for 2002 shows the oil pressure sender/switch on the same supply but its not the case in my spare harness. Matter of fact my oil pressure connector only has one wire going to it. Not sure how that works.

Does Your 02 Have a Gauge or a light.  IF only one wire then that is for a system with a Low Oil Pressure light, and a switch at the engine.  The switch is normally closed until you apply more that 7 pounds pressure then it opens, if the pressure drops below 7 psi then the light comes on.  The Gauges use 3 wires Ground, a return signal wire, and a 5V reference voltage.  Basically your gauge in the dash is a 0 to 5 volt voltage gauge, and then it shows the voltage of the signal from your sensor as a reading on the meter.  If the ECM needs to use it for math it goes through a Analog to Digital conversion and is turned into a number that the computer can do math with inside the computer.

 

I hope that helps.

Michael

[dripley]

The 02 does have a gauge. I know the 02 is just a switch. Once the pressure is up to 6 or so  pounds it just tells the ecm we have pressure. Then the gauge is run based on ECT and RPM I believe. I know the gauge behaves like it is reading pressure but in all actuality it does not. Learned that here about 7 or so years ago. I think my idiot light is just the gauge dropping to zero and the check gauges light comes on. After further thought the one wire makes sense. Of course I am a member of the electrically challenged club around here.

 One of these days I might just put a real gauge in.

[int3man]

Well I am uninstalling the edge to Smog the Truck.  Took the Negative connector off and Yup the connections are dirty.  Hopefully West Marine is open tomorrow and I'll get some Quality Zinc plated connectors.  I have order a pint of conductive Grease that the Electrical contractors use.  I'll liberally coat all the terminals with it,

 

So is Zinc plated the best?  The copper connectors that they have seem skinny.  The Lead free one's look just Wimpy!

 

Thanks

Michael