Wierd idle

[Mopar1973Man]

8 hours ago, Marcus2000monster said:

Lol yea I am getting a bit worked up. So when I pull the valve cover I am looking for little bits of valve seals and what else? 

 

The only way you going to find the seal bits is dig around with your fingers. I never seen the bits of seal till I tipped the head and let the oil drain off then the seal bit showed right up. Most likely find 5 and 6 cylinders with the most. Then you need the valve compression tool and take the springs off and check and see if the guides have excessive play. If the guides are worn then replacing the seals will not hold up. 

 

In my case I'm glad the head gasket went. It would of really sucked to do all the valve work to replace the seals and then just find out that I'd been the same boat as @Dieselfuture where the seal would of been damaged again by the wobbling of the valves. 

[Marcus2000monster]

Ok so at this point I need to remove valve springs and dig around for seal bits and if they’re is check for excessive valve wear?

[Mopar1973Man]

Just now, Marcus2000monster said:

Ok so at this point I need to remove valve springs and dig around for seal bits and if they’re is check for excessive valve wear?

 

You'll find out that if you that far you might as well pull the head and just do it right. 

 

The thing is I never knew the seals where there in the head till the oil was drained off. Chances of you finding the seal bits with the head full of il is going to be thin. Then if you going to pull the springs then you got to pull all the rockers and have the compression tool. The cylinder would have to be at TDC to hold the valves from dropping into the cylinder. So now you got to pull the injectors just to check for TDC of each cylinder. 

 

Heck at that point just pull the exhaust manifold and turbo and unbolt the head. 

 

So either commit to doing it right. Or just let hang in there till the problem worsens like my cases the oil smoke was producing a fairly large cloud and burning at least 1-2 quarts in 7k miles. Then at the same time my head gasket started leaking. 

[Marcus2000monster]

4 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

You'll find out that if you that far you might as well pull the head and just do it right. 

 

The thing is I never knew the seals where there in the head till the oil was drained off. Chances of you finding the seal bits with the head full of il is going to be thin. Then if you going to pull the springs then you got to pull all the rockers and have the compression tool. The cylinder would have to be at TDC to hold the valves from dropping into the cylinder. So now you got to pull the injectors just to check for TDC of each cylinder. 

 

Heck at that point just pull the exhaust manifold and turbo and unbolt the head. 

 

So either commit to doing it right. Or just let hang in there till the problem worsens like my cases the oil smoke was producing a fairly large cloud and burning at least 1-2 quarts in 7k miles. Then at the same time my head gasket started leaking. 

H mm if it’s going to be that big a deal and cost me 1k aim going to be better off getting rid of it and getting an new truck. I’m baffled as to why I’m having valve seal problems at 133k miles? 

[Mopar1973Man]

The problem is finding where the oil is coming from. Is it truly the valve seals? 

 

Did you buy the truck used? Did the previous owner run it hard? Excessive high EGT's? Are the seals just baked and harden? Rubber seal are not going to last forever. Like all other seals on the engine rubber will harden and start to leak.

 

So if you going to buy a new truck are you willing to go to the 4th gen? Because any 2nd gen you buy at this point will all need to address age problems unless you pay big money for a truck that you know has a freshly rebuilt engine and transmission. Just things to think about. One of few reasons I still hang on to my truck because I can't swallow the idea of $4,000 every 100k miles for CR injectors or take the risk of eating $5,000 worth of engine washing out a cylinder or two.

 

 

[Marcus2000monster]

Yes I bought it used. And I suspect it was ran at high egts becuase he pulled a good amount cross country. If all I need is valve seals I can handle doing those but if I have to pull the head and spend a lot of money Idk what I'll do. The other reason I would consider selling is it has a 53 block. Like others have said it prob would have cracked already if it's going to.

[Mopar1973Man]

12 minutes ago, Marcus2000monster said:

I would consider selling is it has a 53 block.

 

Maybe you should talk to @cajflynn he towed heavy for 1.3 MILLION miles with a 53 block. Never cracked. Not all 53 blocks will crack.

 

13 minutes ago, Marcus2000monster said:

I suspect it was ran at high egts becuase he pulled a good amount cross country. If all I need is valve seals I can handle doing those

 

Problem is you can do just the seal but like @Dieselfuture he's had to do them twice now. 

[Marcus2000monster]

14 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Maybe you should talk to @cajflynn he towed heavy for 1.3 MILLION miles with a 53 block. Never cracked. Not all 53 blocks will crack.

 

 

Problem is you can do just the seal but like @Dieselfuture he's had to do them twice now. 

Yea the 53 block don't bug me much but darn those valve seals can't mean anything good. If the seals are bad that likely means the valve guides are shot to right? 

[Dieselfuture]

46 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Problem is you can do just the seal but like @Dieselfuture he's had to do them twice now. 

Only because I didn't put top hats right of way.

@Marcus2000monster that's something you can do, is modify Ford 4.0l seals and put them on for now, even with worn guides they should last a while. JMO

[Marcus2000monster]

1 minute ago, Dieselfuture said:

Only because I didn't put top hats right of way.

@Marcus2000monster that's something you can do, is modify Ford 4.0l seals and put them on for now, even with worn guides they should last a while. JMO

Tell me more please! How do you modify them?

[Dieselfuture]

2 minutes ago, Marcus2000monster said:

Tell me more please! How do you modify them?

Everything is here

 

[Marcus2000monster]

Just got through the top hat seal article. So should I pull head and have it machined for the 4.0 Ford seals or modify them like @Dieselfuture did? And you got the seals from usseals or Manton? 

[Dieselfuture]

No.

You can modify Ford seals to fit what you have now or you can take head to machine shop and have them machine it to use newer style top hats that are ment for cummins 

[Marcus2000monster]

1 hour ago, Dieselfuture said:

No.

You can modify Ford seals to fit what you have now or you can take head to machine shop and have them machine it to use newer style top hats that are ment for cummins 

Do you have a link to the seals?

[Dieselfuture]

https://ussealparts.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=+Vs292v

These are for Ford and need to be modified to fit on stock 2nd gen 24v head. That's what I used on all of my valves. Get extra incase you mess few up modifying them. Good luck. 

Or you can do it the right way and take the head off, then use these.

https://ussealparts.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=VS-C59LV

I recommend rereading my thread if you're going to modify, there are some key steps in modifying. 

[Marcus2000monster]

2 hours ago, Dieselfuture said:

https://ussealparts.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=+Vs292v

These are for Ford and need to be modified to fit on stock 2nd gen 24v head. That's what I used on all of my valves. Get extra incase you mess few up modifying them. Good luck. 

Or you can do it the right way and take the head off, then use these.

https://ussealparts.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=VS-C59LV

I recommend rereading my thread if you're going to modify, there are some key steps in modifying. 

Thanks for the link! When I pull the valve cover and springs how can I tell if the valve guides are shot? If the guides need help I’m going to do it right and have everything done. But if I can get by with new Ford seals for another 100k I’ll be happy. 

Also what is the answer to fixing this problem forever? If possible I want to get 6 or 700k miles if possible before any major engine work. 

Is they’re anyway this blue smoke could be caused by a leaky turbo seal?

[IBMobile]

@Dieselfuture could you please do a wright up about the Ford and top hat seals and put it in the 24valve engine section.  The next time some one needs help with seal it will be readily available.      

[Dieselfuture]

7 hours ago, IBMobile said:

@Dieselfuture could you please do a wright up about the Ford and top hat seals and put it in the 24valve engine section.  The next time some one needs help with seal it will be readily available.      

I'll have to find time and then figure out how to do it, plus I only have a few thousand miles on this setup. Probably should put more miles on before I go telling everyone that's the solution. Either way it will be more of a Band-Aid, right ways machine work on the head.

[Marcus2000monster]

24 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

I'll have to find time and then figure out how to do it, plus I only have a few thousand miles on this setup. Probably should put more miles on before I go telling everyone that's the solution. Either way it will be more of a Band-Aid, right ways machine work on the head.

Any idea why the machine work would cost? If it’s not too much I would consider it. I want to do it righ the first time if I can $$ wise. 

@dieselfuture I’m having a little trouble understanding what will have to be done to the Ford seals. The outside diameter will need shaved down to fit and what else? 

 

Im really hoping this is something simpler but it’s not likely. We will find out this week sometime. 

[trreed]

@Dieselfuture, I guess I missed why you didn’t go for OEM Cummins seals for the VP head? Can you elaborate on that?

Edited September 24, 2018 by trreed