Gutting cab/removing wires. 2000 Ram 2500 cummins

[TJ_00Cummins]

Vp44 guys.  Im doing alot of work on my truck, cutting weight etc...my plan is to completely gut the cab, pull everything out and leave just the column, seats, shifter, and guages...gonna use my tablet/quadzilla for tach and speedo.

My question is, Is there anything in the cab that is a "must have" to complete circuits or anything that if removed would cause the truck not to run? Besides the obvious **** like ignition wires.  Id also be open to wiring a push button start. Any info would be much appreciated.

[Mopar1973Man]

Be careful. When removing stuff you might regret something you cut loose and now need. You might ask @Chris O. for advise on the electric system being he's our CCD network guru.

 

ABS computer is needed for Speed display.

PCM is needed for base of the CCD network. 

ECM is needed for the engine.

Cluster is optional.

Check on the central timer I think you'll lose wipers.

 

These trucks are not a good one to strip down... 12V is much better choice. All you need is a fuel solenoid signal and starter trigger.

[Dieselfuture]

I don't know anything, but are you going racing 

[TJ_00Cummins]

Yes i am.  Been dwelling on it for a while to dedicate it to the track.  Finally popped the HG so now shes getting a huge makeover and lots of goodies. Sitting at 600/1200 right now without the upgrades.

6 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Be careful. When removing stuff you might regret something you cut loose and now need. You might ask @Chris O. for advise on the electric system being he's our CCD network guru.

 

ABS computer is needed for Speed display.

PCM is needed for base of the CCD network. 

ECM is needed for the engine.

Cluster is optional.

Check on the central timer I think you'll lose wipers.

 

These trucks are not a good one to strip down... 12V is much better choice. All you need is a fuel solenoid signal and starter trigger.

Ok.  I may have screwed myself.  I scrapped my old cab, but i have another rust free one.  By what ive seen online, the harnesses look to be somewhat universal?  So couldnt i just plug into the new harness and be okay? I did keep my ECM.  im running a full manual valve body and have my lockup/overdrive on switches

[int3man]

Not suggesting that you do it.  But I saw a you tube where he got a Cummins to run with 3 wires?  Something like that, it was a 24 valve I believe.  But he didn't show where he drove the truck.  And it is You tube.

 

I would see what The Electronics guru has to say.

 

Michael

[Mopar1973Man]

26 minutes ago, int3man said:

But I saw a you tube where he got a Cummins to run with 3 wires?  Something like that, it was a 24 valve I believe. 

 

The problem is...

 

9 hours ago, TJ_00Cummins said:

gonna use my tablet/quadzilla for tach and speedo.

 

Speedometer signal requires the PCM to start the CCD network. Then the ABS computer has to be left installed and all speed sensors. PCM start the network and ECM can call the network for speed signal. Without the PCM the CCD network is dead and ECM is just only an engine module now. No DTC code reading either. 

 

I know in the OP condition he's most likely grid heater deleted. But without the ABS the grid heater will not shut off with road speed so the grid heater run on till it times out on the ECM. There is a lot of weird information trade between modules but PCM must be present for the CCD Bus to function.

[TJ_00Cummins]

On 9/26/2018 at 7:10 PM, Mopar1973Man said:

 

I know in the OP condition he's most likely grid heater deleted.

Actually i do still have the grid heater.  Havent decided whether i want to delete or not.  Still gets kinda cold up here in Wisco in the mornings on days that i may want to drive it.  But thats was very good information.  Chris has messaged me back so now we will see how this whole thing goes.  

[Chris O.]

2nd Gen Dodge Ram Cummins 24 valve minimum computer list required:

ECM,  PCM,  ABS (CAB - Controller Antilock Brake),  Electro-Mechanical Instrument Cluster (EMIC).

At least one electronic control module on the data bus must provide a voltage source for the CCD data bus network known as bus bias (Instrument cluster provides CCD voltage bus bias).

[2000Ram2500]

On 9/26/2018 at 7:34 AM, Mopar1973Man said:

Check on the central timer I think you'll lose wipers.

 The CTM does dome lights as well i believe. Now they're calling them body control modules which basically means that anything you do to the "body" goes through that module. The CTM was the early version of that basically. I'll list what chrysler says it does- Alarm function, its your dome light timer, door locks, wipers, that annoying chime is hardwired into it it says using the cluster to determine when to do it, door ajar switch, if you have the highline or premium CTM your horn is routed through there for the alarm.

 

I'd be curious to see if it were possible to only run the ECM as the main computer in the entire truck. If your going to all the effort to delete as much as possible from the interior and electrical as your saying, why not go as far as possible. I would imagine that if your deleting that much stuff it'd be the same amount of work if you delete half your OEM equipment as opposed to all of it. You wouldnt be able to run a quad for gauges but you could fab up a dash panel and mount your own gauges and use the outputs from the sensors and ecm to control them. The ecm handles your fuel and the pcm handles the rest. So in theory if your deleting all this stuff and you've gone to a manual valve body then the pcm is there really only to control the stuff your deleting anyways. Granted at that point you would have to crack into the ECM and write your own tune because you would have nothing to connect a tuner to... just thinkin out loud

[Chris O.]

The problem is OP is trying to use tablet/quadzilla for tach and speedo, this can only work with PCM through Connector pin 7 on DLC ODB II Type A SAE-J1962 connector and this is using one of the five ODB protocols available at that time (in 2nd gen truck 24v-ISO 9141-2 bi-directional bus) mandatory federal government On-board diagnostics.

Now don't confuse this ODB bus with Chrysler trade secret property diagnostic SCI or CCD bus, no PIDs Parameter IDs on SCI bus or CCD.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Chris O.

[Mopar1973Man]

Actually, the Quadzilla gets it data from the engine CANBus so that means the PCM has to start the CCD network to get the ABS speed signal then hand it off to the ECM so the ECM pass it off over the CANBus. 

[Chris O.]

Oh I see

I don't have Quadzilla, I was under the impression that you guys use ELM 327 Chip device for the tablet.

No matter what you still need the PCM for the speedo.

 

Connector pinouts in service manual pdf @ page # 1014.

 

ABS to PCM wiring connection:

All the wiring will be on the ABS bigger connector, leave the smaller connector(s) unplugged.

Here is the PINs # you will need connected:

1  B113 20RD/VT    REAR WHEEL SPEED SENSOR (+), (Connect to speed sensor on top of rear differential)

3  D1 20VT/BR   CCD BUS (+), Connect to PCM, ECM, EMIC

4  A20 20RD/DB   FUSED IGNITION SWITCH OUTPUT (RUN),  Ignition on

 

6  Z8 14BK/VT   GROUND

or

13  Z8 14BK/VT   GROUND

7  A10 14RD/DG   FUSED B(+)

or

14  A10 14RD/DG FUSED B(+)

 

8  B114 20WT/VT   REAR WHEEL SPEED SENSOR (-), (Connect to speed sensor on top of rear differential)

10  D2 20WT/BK   CCD BUS (-) , Connect to PCM, ECM, EMIC

12  G7 20WT/OR   VEHICLE SPEED SENSOR SIGNAL, (Connect to PCM)

 

For racing I don't think you will be running factory tires

Strongly suggest connecting CCD bus to Data link connector (pin 4 - 5 GND, pin 16 BAT+, pin 3 CCD+ and pin 11 CCD-) ODB II Type A SAE-J1962 connector for programming ABS Speedo calibration.

[Dieselfuture]

@Chris O. quick question, sorry OP for sidetrack. 

I have a spare ECM that I had reprogrammed for my VIN number,  everything worked fine for a few days and then I lost tachometer and got a p1698 so I swapped back to original ECM and all the problems went away.  is this a hardware issue in  ECM or did the programming had something to do with it. Because the code says no bus message received from PCM

 

[2000Ram2500]

5 hours ago, Dieselfuture said:

@Chris O. quick question, sorry OP for sidetrack. 

I have a spare ECM that I had reprogrammed for my VIN number,  everything worked fine for a few days and then I lost tachometer and got a p1698 so I swapped back to original ECM and all the problems went away.  is this a hardware issue in  ECM or did the programming had something to do with it. Because the code says no bus message received from PCM

 

Im not sure if this is what your after here but checking the diag trail for a p1698 it gives a few steps to follow.

 

Symptom:
P1698-NO BUS MESSAGES RECEIVED FROM PCM
When Monitored and Set Condition:
P1698-NO BUS MESSAGES RECEIVED FROM PCM
When Monitored:

Key on or Engine running.
Set Condition: No communication with the JTEC.
POSSIBLE CAUSES
NO RESPONSE TO PCM
OPEN CCD BUS CIRCUIT FROM PCM TO DATA LINK CONNECTOR
OPEN CCD BUS (-) FROM PCM TO DATA LINK CONNECTOR
OPEN GROUND CIRCUIT
PCM
TEST ACTION APPLICABILITY
1

Ignition on, engine not running.
With the DRBIII, try to read DTCs or sensors in the PCM (JTEC).
Was there a no response message to PCM?
Yes - Refer to symptom *ENGINE STARTS AND NO RESPONSE
CONDITION FROM PCM in the STARTING category.
No - Go To 2
2

Ignition on, engine not running.
With the DRBIII, select "body", then the type of cluster you have.
NOTE: Bus test will automatically run.
Does the DRBIII display bus operational?
Yes - Test Complete.
No - Go To 3
3

Ignition on, engine not running.
NOTE: This DTC will also set if the PCM has been disconnect or the PCM
programmed (Flashed).
With the DRBIII, Select ECM, and erase DTC’s.
Cycle the ignition off, then on.
Did the DTC P1698 return?
Yes - Go To 4
No - Test Complete.
4

Turn the ignition off.
Disconnect the PCM harness connector(s).
NOTE: Check connectors - Clean/repair as necessary.
Connect Jumper write between CCD Bus (+) circuit an ground.
Ignition on, engine not running.
With the DRBIII, select "body", then the type of cluster you have.
NOTE: Bus test will automatically run.
Does the DRBIII show short to ground?
Yes - Go To 5
No - Repair open CCD Bus (+) circuit from PCM to Data Link Connector.
5

Turn the ignition off.
Disconnect the PCM harness connector(s).
NOTE: Check connectors - Clean/repair as necessary.
Connect a jumper wire between X circuit and ground.
Ignition on, engine not running.
With the DRBIII, Select "body", the type of cluster you have.
NOTE: Bus test will automatically run.
Does the DRBIII show short to ground?
Yes - Go To 6
No - Repair the open CCD BUS (-) circuit form PCM to Data link
connector.
6

Turn the ignition off.
Disconnect the PCM harness connector(s).
NOTE: Check connectors - Clean/repair as necessary.
Measure the resistance between ground and the Ground circuit cavity (A31).
Is the resistance below 10.0 ohms?
Yes - Replace and program the PCM in accordance with the Service
Information.
No - Repair the open ground circuit.
 

Edited October 3, 2018 by 2000Ram2500

[Dieselfuture]

1 hour ago, 2000Ram2500 said:

Im not sure if this is what your after here but checking the diag trail for a p1698 it gives a few steps to follow

Thank, but I think it has more to do with ecm then anything else, like it's not talking to pcm for whatever reason, that's why I thought if programming had anything to do with it. I paid 150 to have it programmed to my truck and when I called them back about the issue they said it was something internal with ecm and I had to send it in again and pay another 150 to fix it. So I'm just wondering if it's in programming or hardware.  

[Chris O.]

Quote

everything worked fine for a few days and then I lost tachometer and got a p1698

ECM hardware issue or CCD bus wiring issues between the rest of the CCD bus (PCM, EMIC).

I was just checking my CCD bus data logs and the RPM message comes from ECM on Cummins diesel application and on gas engine applications it comes from (JTEC) PCM.

This message also contains boost information.

This is the same message that the Electro-Mechanical Instrument Cluster (EMIC) needs for the RPM gauge.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Chris O.

[pepsi71ocean]

On 10/3/2018 at 1:45 PM, Dieselfuture said:

Thank, but I think it has more to do with ecm then anything else, like it's not talking to pcm for whatever reason, that's why I thought if programming had anything to do with it. I paid 150 to have it programmed to my truck and when I called them back about the issue they said it was something internal with ecm and I had to send it in again and pay another 150 to fix it. So I'm just wondering if it's in programming or hardware.  

 

Is the ecm from the same vintage year? I know the wiring changed from year to year on the VP trucks

[Dieselfuture]

2 hours ago, pepsi71ocean said:

 

Is the ecm from the same vintage year? I know the wiring changed from year to year on the VP trucks

It's 3 months off on built date, it ran fine for few days and then decided to give me a code. Some suggested looking into wireing and few other things but I knew it was in ECM so I put my original one in and no problems. I'll keep it for a spare and hope I never need it. Just wanted to have it working properly before I put it away. Not a big deal, worse case I can still use it, just no tach.

[pepsi71ocean]

12 hours ago, Dieselfuture said:

It's 3 months off on built date, it ran fine for few days and then decided to give me a code. Some suggested looking into wireing and few other things but I knew it was in ECM so I put my original one in and no problems. I'll keep it for a spare and hope I never need it. Just wanted to have it working properly before I put it away. Not a big deal, worse case I can still use it, just no tach.

I would think that if it works for 3 says it should work non stop, unless something inside is marginal?

 

Can I ask who you got it from? And if it was a rebuild? If so I'd like to add them to my report on Verified Rebuilders.

[Dieselfuture]

26 minutes ago, pepsi71ocean said:

 

Can I ask who you got it from? And if it was a rebuild? If so I'd like to add them to my report on Verified Rebuilders.

I got it off Craigslist locally and then send it to Florida https://autocomputerspecialist.com

to program it to my truck and enable 3/6cyl high idle. So first they told me I had a problem with pcm, but after I explained them again and again that my truck is fine with original ECM they said then there's something internally wrong and need to be fixed. I'm going to talk to the guy that part out the truck and see if he can remember anything, I know the engine had a knock like a rod knock so not sure if it's related to ecm.