Trouble Starting Engine - HELP

[RAD]

after reading the comments by @Haggar and @Mopar1973Man, the norm is to see air bubbles coming from the little hole while i blow into the rubber hose.

 

[dripley]

5 hours ago, RAD said:

after reading the comments by @Haggar and @Mopar1973Man, the norm is to see air bubbles coming from the little hole while i blow into the rubber hose.

 

Yep. The bypass always lets a little fuel go by.

[Mopar1973Man]

That tiny hole is designed in there for air to push out but it won't allow the system to drain out. So when you're bumping the starter to get the prime cycle the lift pump can push the air from the VP44 out that hole and at least prime the pressure pump.

[RAD]

ok

Air must still be getting in the line somehow.

 

I got it running Monday, gave it a little pedal and wanted to stumble but caught back up (little pedal=sucking little air?? bigger pedal sucked bigger air and died.)

 

i have eliminated any connections from the lift pump back by running from a 5 gallon can. the overflow line is below the surface of the fuel as not to allow air to be sucked in. 5 gallon can is BELOW lift pump suction. i may raise it to be the highest part of the fueling, that way it will have to stay primed, hopefully. May go ahead and put another clear line back in between the fuel filter and IP inlet with a big "loop" in it . If i see bubbles I will be able to see if the bubbles are on the IP side of the clear line or FF side of the line. 

 

The overflow valve is leaking only when opened. going to replace that, along with the 4 sealing washers it the IP and the 3 gromnets at the "T".

[RAD]

I do agree a big line kit along with a good lift will make the engine/truck run better. I would like to get it running as it was last January before I spend that kind of money on it and STILL have the same issues I am having now.

 

Still no “t” grommets

Finally got it running today. Idled fine let it run for a bit. Gave it some pedal, nothing more than 1600 rpm.

I was shifting through the gears and it died. Would not start again. 

 

Started checking connections again, I checked the big plug on the transmission and there was fluid in it. Don’t know where it came from. 

 

Is there anything in the ECM/PCM/wired too/tied to any engine components that would make it hard to start and then die as if the key was turned off.

 

Should I go ahead and remove both ECM and PCM and have them check out, this will be the second time for the ECM. 

Who would y’all recommend me sending them to to be checked out.

 

 

[RAD]

replaced overflow/check valve banjo bolt and "t" grommets. seemed to start easier. ran a bit and started cycling through the gears and died. didnt want to start again after that.

 

[RAD]

got it stated yesterday, immediately turned it off, started up again with some resistance, immediately turned it off again , struggled worse next time but started. let it run a bit. unplugged C1 at PCM, and stayed running. should have unplugged C2. let it run for a few minutes, cycled through the gears, moved it forward and backward a few feet then eventually died.

 

going to remove all push lock connections and replace with push barb connectors and a very very small length of rubber hose. do not want anything to get kinked up. if my problem still persist, i will then drop the tank and check on what going on with the supply and return lines in the tank.

 

question: can i put a crows foot on the and of a torque wrench and tighten connections down to specs and still get an accurate reading

 

found this:

http://www.fordservicecontent.com/renderers/torquewrench/wrench_formula_main_en.asp

Edited November 20, 2018 by RAD

[RAD]

I checked power at the LP plug once it died. With the key still in the run position there was NO voltage, i was still getting voltage at the IP plug. still NO CODES. Does anyone have a clue what could be causing this. Could there be s sensor telling the ECM to shut off power to the LP????

[dripley]

7 hours ago, RAD said:

I checked power at the LP plug once it died. With the key still in the run position there was NO voltage, i was still getting voltage at the IP plug. still NO CODES. Does anyone have a clue what could be causing this. Could there be s sensor telling the ECM to shut off power to the LP????

Yes. Once the engine stops running the ECM shuts the lift pump off. It sees the engine not running from the cam and/or crank sensor. It will do this in case you have a wreck and the motor shuts off so you dont keep pumping fuel. Bad thing if there is a fire.

[RAD]

Cranked up and ran well for a bit. 

 

This is what I am getting now, directly from the ECM/LP plug.

 

going to make a relay here in just a bit, run it off the battery and see what happens.

 

battery is reading 12.56.

While it was running I was seeing just over 13v at theECM/LP plug

[dripley]

I aint the brightest bul in the pack on leectrical at all. But should not have the meter set to 12v. I am assumming that is DC on the meter. Mine has a 12v DC I switch to. 

 

@Mopar1973Man???

[RAD]

had To double check

my manual. That is correct

 

[dripley]

If your pump is being fed by the ECM you really ought to get it on a relay. Running the 12v power thru it is hard on the ECM Here is an article about it with a how to.

 

[RAD]

@dripley got that printed out here at home. Going to work on that Tuesday. Still need do do the ground wire relocation.

Need to check on the sensors that get 5 volts from the ECM also.

 

If it is still acting up after the ground wire task,  I will prolly remove the ECM and send it back to have the rebuilder check it out.

[RAD]

When you did the relay task, where did you hook the lift pump ground wire to?

what did you do with the ground for the pigtail coming from the ECM?

i have mine hooked up, once the key is let go from the start to run position, I can hear the relay clicking a few times. I am guessing this is normal and a way to regulate lift pump pressure during the start sequence???

[dripley]

8 hours ago, RAD said:

When you did the relay task, where did you hook the lift pump ground wire to?

what did you do with the ground for the pigtail coming from the ECM?

i have mine hooked up, once the key is let go from the start to run position, I can hear the relay clicking a few times. I am guessing this is normal and a way to regulate lift pump pressure during the start sequence???

That is normal for the starting proceess. The ECM turns the pump on and off to keep the pressure down while crabking.

[RAD]

thats what i was thinking, nothing wrong on my end regarding that sound.

what about the ground wire for the LP, keep it connected to the ECM pigtail?

[dripley]

1 hour ago, RAD said:

thats what i was thinking, nothing wrong on my end regarding that sound.

what about the ground wire for the LP, keep it connected to the ECM pigtail?

Yes. On mine I just plugged the connector into the relay harness. Mine came with the AD and the harness had the corresponding connector to plug it into. I dont believe it would work without that ground. Someone smarter than me would have to confirm that. @IBMobile maybe.

[Dieselfuture]

I would think all you need to use is power from ECM, ground can come from anywhere else. All you're doing is energizing the coil in the relay, that's why it's recommended to have a protective relay, so when it denergizes it doesn't send spiked current back to ECM. 

It would be nice to find a pigtail that adapts to that ECM lift pump plug, so you don't have to chop it up.

[RAD]

since i recently bought a similar LP, i cut the pigtail from the previous pump and plugged it up to the ECM wiring harness and used it. wasn't to worried about cutting the LP wiring.