Quadzilla on a stock truck

[Mopar1973Man]

Yeah, I've ran Edge Comp for many years with stock injectors, RV275 injectors (+40 HP) and Vulcan Performance +50 HP injectors. The major problem is the Edge Comp tune is all wrong for any injector above stock. Timing is wrong and the fuel map is wrong this why the big hang-up with smoke in the early year and people had to run small injectors to stay out of trouble.

 

Now with the Quadzilla controlling fueling and timing you can run much bigger injectors and no worry about smoke issues. Like @Me78569 lives in Colorado which is a smog state like California. He was very capable of passing emission test with 7 x 0.010 injectors and the Quadzilla. Currently, I'm running 7 x 0.0085 injectors or +75 HP and smoke free for the most part. All about your fuel management and timing set up. Enough early retard to build boost fast and get into your high timing bands. Fuel managment to lag your fuel till it spools the turbo good enough. All these factors Edge Products can't do. (Edge EZ, Edge Comp or the Edge Juice).

[Dieselfuture]

I love my set up at the moment, I don't even use wiretap anymore I have plenty of power the way it is.

[Marine]

18 hours ago, Me78569 said:

the quad can be as aggressive or lazy as you want.   There is no technical reason why a stock injector truck can't be tuned to have 150* hp over stock and not smoke like you have right now on high levels.  

the edge comp makes ~120hp over stock. the quad is rated at 180 hp over stock, but I generally like to say that all wiretap boxes do ~150hp over stock.  

 

Most guys that come from a comp to a quad feel like the truck is stronger though.    

 

With this info maybe I should try going back to the stock injectors and see the result is with the HTB3 (65 exhaust) I have.

[Me78569]

 

13 minutes ago, Marine said:

 

With this info maybe I should try going back to the stock injectors and see the result is with the HTB3 (65 exhaust) I have.

 

 

I wouldn't bigger injectors give you way more ablity to tune how you want.  Gotta remember VP trucks are limited in duration, so if you can't increase duration to get more fueling resolution your only other choice is bigger injectors and a lower fueling starting point.

 

IE a stock truck duration is limited between %40 and %100 being cruise and WOT 

a 7 x .010 injector truck is limited between %20 and %100 being cruise and WOT

 

the 7 x .010 truck has %20 more duration to use for tuning.

[Mopar1973Man]

This is what I'm learning. 7 x 0.0085 injectors are good with the Quadzilla but you can't push any more volume than what the injector will flow at its maximum duration time. 7 x 0.010 would be a good starting place and you can tune down that injector for a daily tune just as easily. In nutshell, you no longer have to keep the Quadzilla reaching to the absolute maximum ends of everything to get the most from it. You can be slightly overpowered injector wise but cut it back using the Quadzilla for your driving conditions and driving style. 

[Dieselfuture]

@Me78569 why is my truck even with 7x10 doesn't smoke at all in worm up mode, isn't warm up mode a factory setting same as if quad was on level 0, I can't remember forgive me. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Level zero uses factory timing but your 0 PSI fuel limit. 

[Dieselfuture]

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Level zero uses factory timing but your 0 PSI fuel limit. 

That would explain it. It also may explain my dead spot at 1000rpm when engine is cold. I actually bumped my 0 PSI to 80 from 76 and it seemed to help. 

[Marine]

6 hours ago, Me78569 said:

 

I wouldn't bigger injectors give you way more ablity to tune how you want.  Gotta remember VP trucks are limited in duration, so if you can't increase duration to get more fueling resolution your only other choice is bigger injectors and a lower fueling starting point.

 

IE a stock truck duration is limited between %40 and %100 being cruise and WOT 

a 7 x .010 injector truck is limited between %20 and %100 being cruise and WOT

 

the 7 x .010 truck has %20 more duration to use for tuning.

 

But I get turbo surge with the Mach 1.6 and the DDP95s I have. HTT said that my turbo is rated for 50hp more than stock and suggested no more than a 50 hp injector. I have my duration way down to 1200 now. 

Thoughts?

[Me78569]

Upgrade tuning.  

[portlandareae28]

Ok, Let's assume larger injectors are not available, what does Quad do to improve the truck?

[Marine]

13 hours ago, Me78569 said:

Upgrade tuning.  

So you mean to the v2 I guess?

[Me78569]

13 minutes ago, portlandareae28 said:

Ok, Let's assume larger injectors are not available, what does Quad do to improve the truck?

it allows you to set a timing curve you want.   It allows you to define how and when your fueling ramps up.   It allows you to choose how much wiretap and what boost to bring it in at.  

14 minutes ago, Marine said:

So you mean to the v2 I guess?

yes

[portlandareae28]

1 hour ago, Me78569 said:

it allows you to set a timing curve you want.   It allows you to define how and when your fueling ramps up.   It allows you to choose how much wiretap and what boost to bring it in at.  

 

So the truck will
- make more power than stock? (any idea the limits here on a stock injector?)
- truck should be less smokey at more power with the ability to control fueling ramps etc?

- fuel economy?

[Me78569]

~150 hp over stock on stock injectors, 

 

truck should run %100 clean if your tune is good.  the fueling can ramp up as fast or slow as you want. It can also be set to hold steady at a given psi for a tow tune.

 

Fuel eco shoul dbe better above 55 mph as you can hold timing where it needs to be.  This is something the edge cannot do as the oem base timing map falls off a cliff above that 60ish mph mark.  There is a ~6* hole in the timing map.

 

[portlandareae28]

4 hours ago, Me78569 said:

~150 hp over stock on stock injectors, 

 

truck should run %100 clean if your tune is good.  the fueling can ramp up as fast or slow as you want. It can also be set to hold steady at a given psi for a tow tune.

 

Fuel eco shoul dbe better above 55 mph as you can hold timing where it needs to be.  This is something the edge cannot do as the oem base timing map falls off a cliff above that 60ish mph mark.  There is a ~6* hole in the timing map.

 

Thank you for being patient with me, tuning cummins engines is a little or a lot new to me.  SO essentially stock injectors with a wire tap (assuming this is where the power is coming from) can give the 24V basically modern day diesel truck power?  stock is 235hp?  where do you figure the torque is at with the 150 over?  I am also assuming that is 150 over at a high duty cycle of the engine, we won't be towing with 385hp at that point, correct?

[Me78569]

Tuners do 3 things on a vp44 truck

 

1.Timing alteration: give a better timing curve than stock.  you pickup some power, mpg, and control EGT that come with added fuel

2. Canbus fueling alteration.  This is the majority of the fueling that the VP does. 0- ~300 hp worth of fueling.  This gives you your "base fueling"

3. wiretap fueling.  This give you ~%25 more duty cycle on the fueling soleniod that is not possible due to the communication protocols between the ecm and vp44  this is done by holding hte fueling solenoid to ground for a few US longer than the vp says it should.  

 

torque is somewhere in the ~+400 ft/lb over stock area when you are throwing a TON of fuel at you wouldn't be towing like that.  I prefer not to push the fueling solenoid that hard, hence the bigger injector talk.

 

what I prefer to do is use your timing and canbus fueling to give you a nice running truck, then use a bit of wiretap at high boost / high rpm to give you the fun street manners most want when wrapping out the rpms.     

 

So you will be at ~350 hp and ~800 ft /lb if you have a REAL aggressive tune ( note the realistic numbers, some get higher but I dont like to say that for everyone) .  keep in mind we are talking whp not crank.    A stock truck will do ~170-180 whp and ~350 ftlb to the ground  

 

 

Most setup a tow tune in the 300 hp / 600 ft /lb area and have nice manners with the hx35.

 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

I love a comment from the Street Outlaws. "Spinning isn't winning". If you have built a tune that is so aggressive that you are breaking the tires loose you are overpowering the road. You need to build your tune and fuel system around the ability of the road and the truck without spin the tires everywhere or being so overpowered you can keep control of it.

 

Yeah, it nice to build an all-out tune that put everything out there. I've got one too but it put some serious power down and the 245's tires don't seem to be able to hold that much power. 

 

Really... What most of your daily driving needs are much lower. Like myself, I use the minimum amount of wiretap on my daily tune 1,200us worth of tap. Drive mostly on the CANBus fuel map. As for timing you need to consider your 1,500 and 2,000 bands the most being that the range you spend the most time for the daily driver.

 

Now with winter setting in I'm considering a special tune for just winter travel. 

[portlandareae28]

I have alot to learn in this arena, but ultimately wanted to start with "does this make the truck better" I don't want "hype" mods, I want to do things to the truck to make it better.

3 hours ago, Me78569 said:

I prefer not to push the fueling solenoid that hard, hence the bigger injector talk.

This helped make sense of guys that I don't think are hot rodders continually promting larger injectors.

I feel like I am gaining some basic knowledge of being able to tune the truck, but a little intimidated to actually buck up and do it.  

[Me78569]

It's not bad once you get your hands on it.     

 

If you want to see what it is like, download the app from the play store.  Iquad by quadzilla.  You can build your own tunes or import one of the ones we have here.